Question to Catholic Caucus (Re: St. Max Kolbe and Mary)

Militia Immaculata ^ | 5/14/2003 | Pyro7480

[Pyro7480]

Recently I heard about an organization that was founded by St. Maximilian Kolbe called the Knights of the Immaculata (Militia Immaculata). The purpose of the Knights is to do all one can for the conversion of sinners, heretics, schismatics, and so on, above all the Masons, and for the sanctifcation of all persons under the sponsorship of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Their website is http://www.consecration.com.

I found an article on their site at the link at the top of the page that was written by St. Maximilian himself. It is an explanation of the prayer of (Marian) total consecration that Kolbe wrote. This is the prayer:

Immaculata, Queen of heaven and earth, refuge of sinners and our most loving Mother, God has willed to entrust the entire order of mercy to you. I, N..., a repentant sinner, cast myself at your feet humbly imploring you to take me with all that I am and have, wholly to yourself as your possession and property. Please make of me, of all my powers of soul and body, of my whole life, death and eternity, whatever most pleases you.

If it pleases you, use all that I am and have without reserve, wholly to accomplish what was said of you: "She will crush your head," and, "You alone have destroyed all heresies in the world." Let me be a fit instrument in your immaculate and merciful hands for introducing and increasing your glory to the maximum in all the many strayed and indifferent souls, and thus help extend as far as possible the blessed kingdom of the most Sacred Heart of Jesus. For wherever you enter you obtain the grace of conversion and growth in holiness, since it is through your hands that all graces come to us from the most Sacred Heart of Jesus.

V. Allow me to praise you, O sacred Virgin.
R. Give me strength against your enemies.

In his commentary on the prayer, he explains the prayer by dividing by key parts and explaining each part. In the part where he explains "...our most loving Mother...," Kolbe writes the following:

The Immaculata is the mother of our entire supernatural life because she is the Mediatrix of the grace of God, hence our mother in the sphere of grace, in the supernatural sphere. She is a most loving mother, because you do not have any mother so affectionate, so loving, so godlike, so Immaculate, so wholly divine.

[Pyro7480]

It is the last three words that I have a question about. Is it doctrinally-correct to say that Mary is "so wholly divine?" She is fully human, and from her womb, was born Jesus, is fully human and fully divine. So at first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine." What do you think?

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[jboot]

"She will crush your head..."

Is this what I think it is, a take on Genesis 3:15?

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Emphasis mine.

[drstevej]

***The Immaculata is the mother of our entire supernatural life because she is the Mediatrix of the grace of God***

This doesn't bother you too? It ascribes the role of the Holy Spirit to Mary. Might as well make her divine.

[jboot]

Calm down Doc, its just Dulia. Now if it were Latria, well...that would be wrong.

;-)

[Pyro7480]

Yes it is, in fact St. Maximilian Kolbe, in his commentary on that part of the prayer, "We ask her to use us if she wishes, as an instrument to crush the head of the proud serpent in unfortunate souls. Holy Scripture adds, quoting the verse mentioned above, And you shall lie in wait for her heel. The evil spirit really lies in wait in a special way for those who dedicate themselves to the Immaculata; he desires to insult her at least in them. His endeavor against sincerely dedicated souls always ends with his more shameful defeat, hence his fury is more violent, impotently furious."

[Pyro7480]

Yeah, to be more specific, hyperdulia, which is only for Mary, as the Mother of Christ, who is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, One God in Three Persons.

[Pyro7480]

That "it" doesn't make sense in the broader context of the verse. "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed..." The proper pronoun to follow should be "He" or "She" or even "they," which is referring to the seed of the woman, Eve. Back to talking about Mary, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox view Mary as the "new Eve," since Jesus, who was from her womb, reconciled humanity back to God, therefore healing the wound created by Adam and Eve. Through His death and resurrection, eternal life is possible.

[drstevej]

I'm not talking adoration vs worship. I am amazed at the theological statements. To doctrinally ascribe to Mary the work of the Holy Spirit is error, significant error.

Acts 14:14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this [people calling them gods], they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15 “Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you.

[Pyro7480]

We are making no claim that she DOES the work of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Holy Spirit works THROUGH her, just as the Spirit works through anyone else. However, Catholics believe that Mary's is the closest human heart to Jesus', for she is His mother. Since she is in Heaven, and is the Queen Mother (Jesus is King, Mary is the mother of the King, therefore, using royal terms, Mary is the Queen Mother), and the role of the Queen Mother, both on earth and in heaven is to be advocate of God's people, she is an advocate on our behalf.

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[eastsider]

***The Immaculata is the mother of our entire supernatural life because she is the Mediatrix of the grace of God***

This doesn't bother you too? It ascribes the role of the Holy Spirit to Mary. Might as well make her divine.

I read it as an extension of Theotokos ("God bearer," "Mother of God"; from the Council of Ephesus, 431 A.D.). Jesus is "our entire supernatural life." Mary is the mother of Jesus. Therefore, Mary is the mother of "our entire supernatural life."

[Pyro7480]

Ping!

[Pyro7480]

Thanks! Do you have anything that would answer my question at the start of the thread?

[drstevej]

***We are making no claim that she DOES the work of the Holy Spirit. In fact, the Holy Spirit works THROUGH her, just as the Spirit works through anyone else. However, Catholics believe that Mary's is the closest human heart to Jesus', for she is His mother. Since she is in Heaven, and is the Queen Mother (Jesus is King, Mary is the mother of the King, therefore, using royal terms, Mary is the Queen Mother), and the role of the Queen Mother, both on earth and in heaven is to be advocate of God's people, she is an advocate on our behalf. ***

It seems Mary herself is credited for the work of the Holy Spirit through her (as you state). No such exalted terms are given to "anyone else" who the Spirit works through. These descriptions elevate her to deity. That should cause alarm.

You say...

***in heaven is to be advocate of God's people, she is an advocate on our behalf. ***

Here Mary is credited for what the Bible says is Jesus' role and ministry on our behalf.

1 Jn. 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

[eastsider]

[The Immaculata] is a most loving mother, because you do not have any mother so affectionate, so loving, so godlike, so Immaculate, so wholly divine.

[A]t first glance, it seems wrong to call her "so wholly divine."

From the American Heritage Dictionary entry for divine:

Adjective: 1a. Having the nature of or being a deity. b. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity: sought divine guidance through meditation. c. Being in the service or worship of a deity; sacred.

Who is more wholly in the service of the Word made Flesh than the mother who gave him his flesh?

[drstevej]

***I read it as an extension of Theotokos ***

I realize the rationale, but in so extrapolating have you distorted the truth and introduced confusion at best. My problem with theotokos is that the term while true in one sense lends itself to many wrong conclusions and deductions.

Your explanation

***Jesus is "our entire supernatural life." Mary is the mother of Jesus. Therefore, Mary is the mother of "our entire supernatural life." ***

is more of the same.

[eastsider]

[T]he term [Theotokos] while true in one sense lends itself to many wrong conclusions and deductions.

So does the phrase, Jesus is a man. Both term and phrase are meditations on the mystery of the Incarnation. The Incarnation is a mystery not because we can't discuss aspects of it, but because we can never fully comprehend it. At the end of the day, all our articulations of the Incarnation will be inadequate.

[drstevej]

My point is: terms which imply Mary is deity are error. Heresy often arises out of such speculation beyond the bounds of Scripture.

There is indeed an element of mystery regarding the incarnation and the nature of the Trinity. That is not license to add new Marian mysteries not based in Scripture.

[eastsider]

I appreciate your objection, and agree that any term or phrase that necessarily and exclusively denotes that Mary is a divine person -- for example, Mary is the Father, Mary is the Son, or Mary is the Holy Spirit -- is heretical. I don't construe either the term Theotokos or the phrase wholly divine as denoting that Mary is a divine person.