Priests Down, Seminarians Up

Zenit (Vatican News Agency) | 05/12/03 | N/A

[ninenot]

For those who STILL maintain that vocations are down worldwide, please read this (Sinky)

[ninenot]

Ping

[Desdemona]

bump

[Cap'n Crunch]

Good News Bump

[Loyalist]

In 1978, the total of diocesan and religious priests was 420,000; at the end of 2001 their number had dropped to 405,067.

The study revealed a more complicated situation in regard to women religious. In 1978, they numbered 990,768; now they total 792,317.

As opposed to the case of seminarians, there is no significant growth in the number of women entering novitiates. In this case also, the most notable decrease has been registered in Europe, North America and Oceania.

The bad news far outweighs the good here.

[ninenot]

How so?

[Loyalist]

This article is noteworthy for the information that's missing, either because it wasn't part of the original study, or it didn't fit the general thrust of the article.

The study disingenuously uses 1978 as its starting point, to suggest that John Paul II's pontificate has been one in which vocations have flourished, and that the Church is coming along just fine.

Starting from the nadir of the post-Vatican II mess is a great way to make a dead-cat bounce look like real growth.

Yet over the course of John Paul II's reign, the total number of priests has fallen about 4%. The more telling figure would be the ratio of priests to laity.

A growth of 75% in the number of seminarians worldwide looks like an impressive figure; but consider what year that growth is being measured from.

Look also at the 9% growth in seminarians in Europe. It looks healthy until you consider that much of that growth probably comes from two sources; the re-opening of seminaries in countries formerly behind the Iron Curtain, and the increasing numbers of Third World seminarians sent to Europe. Factor those out, and the collapse of the Church in Her Western European heartland continues unabated.

Finally, the 20% fall in the number of women religious. No amount of fiddling the figures can hide the collapse of women's religious orders and their novitiates.

The implications for the Church that the extinction of women's religious orders raises are too many to count, but they are horrible.

[Terriergal]

Nothing wrong with going to seminary just to learn.... IMO...

[Salvation]

Pray for vocations!

It needs to be the Number One priority will all Arch/dioceses!

[Salvation]

This is an older article (one year) but one I think worth popping up again.

In Seminaries, New Ways for a New Generation

[Maximilian]

For those who STILL maintain that vocations are down worldwide, please read this

Of course they are down. This article represents a tendentious use of statistics. A couple of quick points:

1. They used 1978 as the starting point because that was the nadir. But there had already been a complete collapse of vocations over the previous 10 years. Yet even compared with the worst of the seventies, things have not improved.

2. The number of priests has dropped as dramatically as you might have expected since 1978, but there's a huge generation of priests ready to retire and/or pass on. There's virtually no one there to replace them. The priesthood is facing demographic annihilation.

3. The increase in seminarians is up from the very lowest point when there were virtually none as a percentage of Catholics worldwide. But it's still not nearly enough to replace the dying generation that represents the last of the pre-Vatican remnant.

4. It's no consolation to know that they are finding vocations in Africa or Asia if there are none in your own parish, and your diocese expects you to attend a "worship service" run by a lesbian pastoral administrator. First of all, the increase in those areas is up from virtually none. There are still not nearly enough priests to serve the Catholics in their own regions. The Phillipines, for examples, has a priest - laity ratio much worse than our own. Secondly, if the Catholic Church dies in its traditional home of Europe and in the Americas, Asia and Africa are not going to be able to replace the loss of this precious heritage.

[american colleen]

Good morning, guys.

I often wonder whether the crisis of vocations is really a crisis after all is said and done.

The Archdiocese of Boston website has a stat that indicates only 15% of Catholics here attend weekly Mass. Looking around at other dioceses and assuming the weekly Mass attending Catholics hovers at around 30%, how many priests do we need? The Catholic population increases, but most do not go beyond baptism and First Holy Communion. The kids attend CCD (but not Mass), are Confirmed and that is usually that until they want to have a church wedding.

If there were more priests, would more Catholics attend weekly Mass?

[sinkspur]

Over the past quarter-century, particularly in Africa, the number of seminarians has multiplied by four and in Asia by five.

At least a guy gets three squares a day in a seminary on a continent where abject poverty is the rule and with little hope for a man with an IQ over 90. Priests don't starve.

The clerical profession's image in some of these countries is beginning to rival the one it held in the US prior to the 70s and will, hopefully, some day recover.

[Maximilian]

I often wonder whether the crisis of vocations is really a crisis after all is said and done. The Archdiocese of Boston website has a stat that indicates only 15% of Catholics here attend weekly Mass.

This is a good point -- a much better one than that made by the original article. The number of priests and the number of laity are declining pari passu.

Are we going to need many New Mass priests in the future? I think that the vision you invoke is already coming true in some locations: a mass-produced sacramental system where a handful of priests say the magic words for all the rituals, while the people show up only for special occassions. We can already see this in action in many of the main-line protestant denominations.

Why do they bother hanging around at all? Because of the money. The protestant ministers, and the New Mass priests, won't entirely disappear until the endowments are all spent. Rosemary Radford Ruether, when she was asked why she stayed in the Church at all, answered, "Because that's where the copy machines are." In this respect, maybe the current scandals will hasten the day when the money is gone, so there is no longer any incentive for "ministers" who don't believe to keep hanging around the Church, and then a solution might become possible.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Most of the net of the losses is attirbutable to the AmChurch.

[TotusTuus]

Christos Voskrese!

Finally, the 20% fall in the number of women religious. No amount of fiddling the figures can hide the collapse of women's religious orders and their novitiates.

Considering how bad many of these Orders have become, not necessarily bad news. Of course there is a collapse. If they are no longer serving God and His Church as His brides, they are no longer needed. But...

The implications for the Church that the extinction of women's religious orders raises are too many to count, but they are horrible.

New Orders of young, zealous, mature, orthodox women (and men) are coming out! They represent the future. That's where a real survey would be helpful in pointing out the growth of the Gospel. Where are the young Religious going? Into new Orders with vibrant Faith! Numbers are small now, but they'll grow because the Truth of our Faith can't be set aside forever - and they offer Truth! God will take care of His Church. He will still call young men and women to serve Him with singular devotion from deep within their hearts. This isn't the first time in the history of the Church that this cycle has happened.

[Longshanks]

The book Good Bye Good Men gives a thorough treatment of the subject. It appears that many seminaries have been systematically rooted out the anti-homosexual and orthodox. Gay liberal candidates sail right through to ordination but most of them don't last long in the active priesthood. Seminaries firmly under orthodox control are bursting at the seams.

My sense is that most seminaries in the US fall somewhere in between these two extremes. Homosexuality is still tolerated but no longer forced. This would correspond to the typical behavior of JPII bishops who tolerate but slightly downgrade the proclamation of liberal heresy while energetically suppressing attempts at Catholic restoration.

Needless to say, the heartless, ongoing toleration of heresy and buggary is alienating and corrupting Catholic youth.

[ninenot]

First, I would guess that they picked JPII's years b/c of his upcoming anniversary.

But having said that, so what? Are you able to demonstrate, using figures from, say, 1969, that the numbers are awful?

How can you insist that a substantial increase in Sem. enrollments outside of the West is either bad or lying with figures?

I suspect your glass is not half-full. It's drained.

[ninenot]

It would seem that we are the only two on this thread who view an increase as an increase, and understand that new religious orders (male AND female) are growing like topsy.

Sad, isn't it?

[sitetest]

Dear ninenot,

"It would seem that we are the only two on this thread who view an increase as an increase, and understand that new religious orders (male AND female) are growing like topsy."

Maybe some of us lurkers do. ;-)

The bad news here is old news. The new news is the good news.

Seriously, though, I remember that once, there were over 500,000 priests in the world. The number did fall dramatically, but the drop seems to have levelled off during Pope John Paul's pontificate. I wonder what additional data points between 1978 and now would look like. I wonder whether, in the years following his becoming pontiff, the numbers declined even more, and perhaps they might already be on an upswing.

In any event, the dramatic rise in seminarians is very good news, and in absolute terms, even better news. With about 60,000 seminarians, one can only expect about 12,000 or so ordinations per year, assuming little fall-off of young men during their seminary years. If the average age at ordination is about 35, and most men serve actively until about 70, over time, that will barely replace some 400,000+ priests. As well, in the short term, because there is a big generational bulge approaching retirement, for a few years, the number of priests could decline even more dramatically.

But 112,000 seminaries could easily produce 20,000+ ordinations per year, over time, and could easily see a rise to around 700,000 priests over the course of a couple of generations.

I know that in our archdiocese, we are seeing that sort of uptrend, in miniature. Going back only four or five years, we scarcely had enough men in the seminary to provide, statistically speaking, replacement levels for the priests we have now (and the problem is exacerbated in that so many of our priests are not far off from retirement age).

But the last few years have seen an upsurge in vocations in our archdiocese. It may be a little early to hope that the upsurge is permanent, but if it continues, it would mean that over time the number of priests in our archdiocese would increase significantly.

So, I go to my KofC meetings, and we pray for more vocations.


sitetest