Closing with Christ

Christian Communicators Worldwide ^ | 1999 | Jim Eliff

[sheltonmac]

This was touched on briefly on another thread, but I thought this warranted a thread of its own. I must admit that I don't know much about Jim Eliff, but this article does make some excellent points.

[sheltonmac]

*ping*

[sheltonmac]

While not offering an altar call, the pastors at my church will take a moment just before communion to invite people to accept Christ and partake of the elements along with other believers. This has always seemed odd to me, since I had grown up believing that communion was something for relatively "mature" Christians. Thoughts or comments?

[TomSmedley]

Thanks, friend. THis pulls together in one space many of the issues I've been fuming about!

[sheltonmac]

They teach the Bible from its beginning, laying out each story in sequence without revealing what is beyond that point.

I thought this was interesting. I have often wondered why evangelists have a tendency to present people with only a copy of the New Testament. Personally, I think a great many people are missing out on one of the biggest blessings of all--the fulfillment of Old Testement prophecy in Jesus Christ.

[RnMomof7]

While not offering an altar call, the pastors at my church will take a moment just before communion to invite people to accept Christ and partake of the elements along with other believers. This has always seemed odd to me, since I had grown up believing that communion was something for relatively "mature" Christians. Thoughts or comments?

At the Reformed Baptist church I attended the preacher would say if anyone had never come to Christ they should see him after the service.

The bible Presbyterian Church I now attend will on some Sundays (like yours usually Communion Sundays and on holidays ) say something very similar..to see him after the service or call for an appointment to meet with him.

I believe this is a sound way to offer the gospel as it elimates a non sincere emotional response.

[Boxsford]

A 6th bullet on your list should read: Must instantly stop smoking or drinking, etc. to prove you are a Christian. It makes the previous 5 bullets, works.

Sadly there is no understanding of grace and mercy.

[sheltonmac]

And dancing! Don't forget dancing!

[Boxsford]

"I learned that night [a lesson] which I have never forgotten; and that is, when I preach, to press Christ upon the people then and there, and try to bring them to a decision on the spot. I would rather have that right hand cut off than to give an audience a week now to decide what to do with Jesus."

Is it really bringing anyone to a decision or is it rather bringing a person to the point of awareness of Christ in them? I can recall when the Lord was pulling me towards himself and not understanding this strange presence. I'd occassionally go to church and as soon as I stepped inside I would immediately begin to cry. Jesus was already moving in my heart to receive."No one comes to the Father except by me" No one, no human could have convinced me that I needed to "accept" Christ because Christ had already accepted me and came to me and the work was already complete. Now what would have helped me a great deal is if someone in the church had shown me how to acknowledge that presence in me. I guess what I mean by this is discipling. Perhaps that is what you are calling "accepting"? Though that never happened for me (verbally acknowleding Christ at an altar) I still grew in my faith and have been encouraged since then by believers to walk in this faith.

[Boxsford]

LOL!! oh yes. In fact, many years ago as a teen ager I was attending a church and decided to go to a youth meeting. Well, I did not know Christ and the discussion was all about dancing. I was so disappointed. I wanted to hear something about this Jesus person and all they could do was knock people down for dancing. I never went back.

[Gamecock]

We have the Lord's Supper each Sunday and "new believers" are told to meet with the pastor before partaking, justto gain a fuller appreciation of what it means to be a Christian.


BTW, wine or grape juice?

[anniegetyourgun]

I belong to a church that does extend a call at almost every Sunday service. However, it extends communion and baptism only in what we call 'believers services' held mid-week and at other special times during the year. In the case of communion, it is our belief that it keeps the non-believer from entering in and adding upon himself such sin. In the case of baptism, it is our belief that such a public pronouncement is only understood by those already in the Body anyway.

I'm not convinced that every Sunday should involve an altar call, but I do believe it is essential following a sermon of Holy Spirit conviction. In other words, I would like to hear more pastors preach the hard realities, ask listeners to count the cost, and remind unbelievers that they know not their time. THEN (and coupled with a move of the Spirit of God upon that pastor in that moment to do so) there should there be an altar call.

[anniegetyourgun]

I got you beat. I once attended (visited) a Baptist (that's right) youth group in which the youth pastor conceded to hold a seance because the kids wanted to. I couldn't get out of that room fast enough.

[RnMomof7]

BTW, wine or grape juice?

Funny I never asked:>) I am so used to Grape juice, it was my assumption that was what it is.

Based on taste I would say Welches

[Boxsford]

oh, yuck...how about his one.....At that same church I mentioned (I never went back to the youth group but I continued to go to the services)I was sitting in the congregation during a service (not understanding a word but wanting something of this Jesus when I was pulled from my seat and lead to a back room and forced to say a "sinners prayer". I had NO idea what was going on. Afterwards, the woman who grabbed my arm in the pew and made me pray, prayed right after me and asked God to FORGIVE me for my failing prayer attempt and asked Him to save me anyway. Talk about feeling like a loser! I mention this story to those out there that are agressive about the "sinners prayer" because it did so much damage I did not return back to a church for several years. It frightened me a great deal.

[RnMomof7]

I can recall when the Lord was pulling me towards himself and not understanding this strange presence. I'd occassionally go to church and as soon as I stepped inside I would immediately begin to cry. Jesus was already moving in my heart to receive."No one comes to the Father except by me" No one, no human could have convinced me that I needed to "accept" Christ because Christ had already accepted me and came to me and the work was already complete. Now what would have helped me a great deal is if someone in the church had shown me how to acknowledge that presence in me

That is a beautiful example of the working of the Holy Spirit.

I appreciate the one on one call because it gives time for the tears and the repentance and the joy to be appreciated, and understood rather than heres a tract , see you next week

I had been saved many years when one day I was overcome with the presence of God during a service in a church I was visiting. I was searching for a home church at that time. I was a stranger there, so I sat in the rear of the church weeping at the love and tenderness of God to one like me.

The Pastor came up after the service to meet me. At that moment I needed someone to talk and pray with , to help me understand what it was God was teaching me about Himself. I asked the very kind Pastor if he had a few moments..He told me he was sorry that he was "busy".

I found another home church

[sheltonmac]

One of the biggest obstacles presented by many churches and evangelists is the "conversion experience." (Some of the more charismatic churches would go so far as to say that if you haven't spoken in tongues, then you aren't saved.) In my opinion, modern Christendom places more emphasis on esoteric experience than a sound biblical presentation of the gospel.

I cannot recall a "conversion experience." I was never "slain in the Spirit." I have never spoken in tongues. The "holy laughter" movement really creeps me out. For me, it was more of a slow, steady growth into a saving knowledge of Christ, not a sudden, "road to Damascus" revelation.

[anniegetyourgun]

Okay - you win the church abuse story of the week! At least in my case, I was already a believer and knew enough to flee. You were forced to 'pray' and had therefore become 'prey'.....

[BibChr]

Thanks for this link. I'm wanting to write a length reply, but work's very busy today. I'll have to be brief and a bit disjointed, I fear.

Truth is, I have mixed feelings and thoughts about the essay:

1. I myself "went forward" at a church service, met with a counselor, went through the Four Spiritual Laws, asked Christ into my heart. I have to say now, thirty years later, that the course of my life since, by God's grace, pretty well bears out my judgment that I was genuinely and soundly converted that day.
2. Yet, as a pastor, I never gave an altar call per se ("cattle call"), nor used the Four Spiritual Laws. So obviously I came to have reservations about them. (In fact, when I preached at one Southern Baptist church, one old fellow there was really exasperated with me not "inviting people to Christ." I protested that I did, every time I preached. After going back and forth on this amicably, I said, "What you want is for me to get their bodies moving, isn't it?" "Yes!" he cried, relieved that I'd finally seen the light. He finally graciously offered that, if I didn't know how to do it, I should let him do it for me.)
3. I think many of the author's observations are very accurate, and his tone is better than many such papers. Having said that....
4. I think some of these are properly categorized as "carping." For instance he complains about evangelists urging sinners to invite Christ into their lives, griping that the phrase:

   hangs on nothing biblical (though John 1: 12 and Rev. 3: 20 are used, out of context, for its basis). It is considered, nonetheless, to be the pivotal and necessary instrument for becoming a true Christian. But God commands us to repentingly believe, not to invite Christ into the life.

   Is that really a clear, major point of criticism? I don't think so. I am outside of Christ; by God's grace, I am drawn to be in Christ; I am a stranger, an alien, an enemy; I am made a child, a brother, a friend; I am heading Hellwards, and am turned around to head Heavenwards; I am walking against, and am turned around to walk with.

   I can't express the desires all that gives birth to in a prayer asking the Lord Jesus to come into my heart and life? That would be bad?

   As a young-but-Biblically-educated Christian, I started getting these Calvinoid criticisms, and wondering -- "What are they saying? Did I do something wrong? How do I tell someone to get from point A to point Omega? The Spirit and the bride say, 'Come' -- but I can't?"

5. All this has the effect of reinforcing in the minds of non-Calvinists the image of us Calvinists as cold, cerebral critics, looking down (WAY down) our long noses at the rabble down there, and occasionally curling our lips to let off a cutting remark or two — while it is they who actually try to urge sinners to Christ. Put another way:
6. This reinforces the image that evanglism is (A) done by non-Calvinists, and (B) criticized by Calvinists.

   A man said to an evangelist once, "Sir, I do not like your methods!" The evangelist responded, "I am always eager to learn a better way to urge sinners to the Savior. So tell me, what are your methods?" The man retorted, "Why, I haven't any!" Sadly, the evangelist said, "I like mine better."

   There is a valid point to that.

Dan
Biblical Christianity message board

[Boxsford]

I cannot recall a "conversion experience." I was never "slain in the Spirit." I have never spoken in tongues. The "holy laughter" movement really creeps me out. For me, it was more of a slow, steady growth into a saving knowledge of Christ, not a sudden, "road to Damascus" revelation.

And isn't that the beauty of our Lord? We cannot put him in a box and know how or when He will move. He is so creative and comes to each person in that personal relationship he desires of us. For me the conversion experience was very dramatic. (no laughter or tongues) A missionary told me that the way the Lord showed himself to me was very much the way people in countries without His Word sometimes receive Him. Yet, my children are learning and growing in their faith very much in the way your describe your experience.