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The Theology of John Calvin
http://www.markers.com/ink/bbwcalvin2.htm ^ | Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)

Posted on 04/19/2003 7:32:39 AM PDT by drstevej

The Theology of John Calvin


by Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)
 
This essay appeared in a booklet published by the Presbyterian Board of Education in 1909. The electronic edition of this article was scanned and edited by Shane Rosenthal for Reformation Ink. It is in the public domain and may be freely copied and distributed.

The subject of this address is the theology of John Calvin and I shall ask leave to take this subject rather broadly, that is to say, to attempt not so much to describe the personal peculiarities of John Calvin as a theologian, as to indicate in broad outlines the determining characteristics of the theology which he taught. I wish to speak, in other words, about Calvinism, that great system of religious thought which bears John Calvin's name, and which also--although of course he was not its author, but only one of its chief exponents--bears indelibly impressed upon it the marks of his formative hand and of his systematizing genius. Of all the teachers who have wrought into it their minds and hearts since its revival in that tremendous religious upheaval we call the Reformation, this system of thought owes most perhaps to John Calvin and has therefore justly borne since then his name. And of all the services which Calvin has rendered to humanity--and they are neither few nor small--the greatest was undoubtedly his gift to it afresh of this system of religious thought, quickened into new life by the forces of his genius, and it is therefore just that he should be most widely remembered by it. When we are seeking to probe to the heart of Calvinism, we are exploring also most thoroughly the heart of John Calvin. Calvinism is his greatest and most significant monument, and he who adequately understands it will best understand him.

It was about a hundred years ago that Max Gobel first set the scholars at work upon the attempt clearly to formulate the formative principle of Calvinism. A long line of distinguished thinkers have exhausted themselves in the task without attaining, we must confess, altogether consistent results. The great difficulty has been that the formative and distinctive principles of Calvinism have been confused, and men have busied themselves rather in indicating the points of difference by which Calvinism is distinguished from other theological tendencies than in seeking out the germinal principle of which it itself is the unfolding.

The particular theological tendency with which Calvinism has been contrasted in such discussions is, as was natural, the sister system of Lutheranism, with which it divided the heritage of the Reformation. Now undoubtedly somewhat different spirits do inform Calvinism and Lutheranism. And equally undoubtedly, the disunguishing spirit of Calvinism is due to its formative principle and is not to be accounted for by extraneous circumstances of origin or antecedents, such as for example, the democratic instincts of the Swiss, or the superior humanistic culture of its first teachers, or their tendency to intellectualism or to radicalism. But it is gravely misleading to identify the formative principle of either type of Protestantism with its prominent points of difference from the others. They have vastly more in common than in distinction. And nothing could be more misleading than to trace all their differences, as to their roots, to the fundamental place given in the two systems respectively to the principles of predestination and justification by faith.

In the first place, the doctrine of predestination is not the formative principle of Calvinism, it is only its logical implication. It is not the root from which Calvinism springs, it is one of the branches which it has inevitably thrown out. And so little is it the peculiarity of Calvinism, that it underlay and gave its form and power to the whole Reformation movement--which was, as from the spiritual point of view a great revival of religion, so from the doctrinal point of view a great revival of Augustinianism. There was, accordingly, no difference among the Reformers on this point; Luther and Melanchthon and the compromizing Butzer were no less zealous for absolute predestination than Zwingli and Calvin. Even Zwingli could not surpass Luther in sharp and unqualified assertion of this doctrine; and it was not Calvin but Melanchthon who paused, even in his first preliminary statement of the elements of the Protestant faith, to give it formal assertion and elaboration.

Just as little can the doctrine of justification by faith be represented as specifically Lutheran. It is as central to the Reformed as to the Lutheran system. Nay, it is only in the Reformed system that it retains the purity of its conception and resists the tendency to make it a doctrine of justification on account of; instead of by, faith. It is true that Lutheranism is prone to rest in faith as a kind of ultimate fact, while Calvinism penetrates to its causes, and places faith in its due relation to the other products of God's activity looking to the salvation of man. And this difference may, on due consideration, conduct us back to the formative principle of each type of thought. But it, too, is rather an outgrowth of the divergent formative principles than the embodiment of them. Lutheranism, sprung from the throes of a guilt-burdened soul seeking peace with God, finds peace in faith, and stops right there. It is so absorbed in rejoicing in the blessings which flow from faith that it refuses or neglects to inquire whence faith itself flows. It thus loses itself in a sort of divine euthumia, and knows, and will know nothing beyond the peace of the justified soul. Calvinism asks with the same eagerness as Lutheranism the great question, "What shall I do to be saved?" and answers it precisely as Lutheranism answers it. But it cannot stop there. The deeper question presses upon it, "Whence this faith by which I am justified?" And the deeper response suffuses all the chambers of the soul with praise, "From the free gift of God alone, to the praise of the glory of His grace." Thus Calvinism withdraws the eye from the soul and its destiny and fixes it on God and His glory. It has zeal, no doubt, for salvation but its highest zeal is for the honour of God, and it is this that quickens its emotions and vitalizes its efforts. It begins, it centres and it ends with the vision of God in His glory and it sets itself; before all things, to render to God His rights in every sphere of life-activity.

If thus the formative principle of Calvinism is not to be identified with the points of difference which it has developed with its sister type of Protestantism, Lutheranism, much less can it be identified with those heads of doctrine--severally or in sum--which have been singled out by its own rebellious daughter, Arminianism, as its specially vunerable points. The "five points of Calvinism," we have no doubt learned to call them, and not without justice. They are, each and every one of them, essential elements in the Calvinistic system, the denial of which in any of their essential details is logically the rejection of the entirety of Calvinism; and in their sum they provide what is far from being a bad epitome of the Calvinistic system. The sovereignty of the election of God, the substitutive definiteness of the atonement of Christ, the inability of the sinful will to good, the creative energy of the saving grace of the Spirit, the safety of the redeemed soul in the keeping of its Redeemer,--are not these the distinctive teachings of Calvinism, as precious to every Calvinist's heart as they are necessary to the integrity of the system? Selected as the objects of the Arminian assault, these "five-points" have been reaffirmed, therefore, with the constancy of profound conviction by the whole Calvinistic world. It is well however to bear in mind that they owe their prominence in our minds to the Arminian debate, and however well fitted they may prove in point of fact to stand as a fair epitome of Cavinistic doctrine, they are historically at least only the Calvinistic obverse of "the five points of Arminianism." And certainly they can put in no claim, either severally or in sum, to announce the formative principle of Calvinism, whose outworking in the several departments of doctrine they rather are--though of course they may surely and directly conduct us back to that formative principle, as the only root out of which just this body of doctrine could grow. Clearly at the root of the stock which bears these branches must lie a most profound sense of God and an equally profound sense of the relation in which the creature stands to God, whether conceived merely as creature or, more specifically as sinful creature. It is the vision of God and His Majesty, in a word, which lies at the foundation of the entirety of Calvinistic thinking.

The exact formulation of the formative principle of Calvinism, as I have said, has taxed the acumen of a long line of distinguished thinkers. Many modes of stating it have been proposed. Perhaps after all, however, its simplest statement is the best. It lies then, let me repeat, in a profound apprehension of God in His majesty, with the poignant realization which inevitably accompanies this apprehension, of the relation sustained to God by the creature as such, and particularly by the sinful creature. The Calvinist is the man who has seen God, and who, having seen God in His glory, is filled on the one hand, with a sense of his own unworthiness to stand in God's sight as a creature, and much more as a sinner, and on the other hand, with adoring wonder that nevertheless this God is a God who receives sinners. He who believes in God without reserve and is determined that God shall be God to him, in all his thinking, feeling, willing--in the entire compass of his life activities, intellectual, moral, spiritual--throughout all his individual, social, religious relations--is, by the force of that strictest of all logic which presides over the outworking of principles into thought and life, by the very necessity of the case, a Calvinist.

If we wish to reduce this statement to a more formal theoretical form, we may say perhaps, that Calvinism in its fundamental idea implies three things. In it, (i) objectively speaking, theism comes to its rights; (ii) subjectively speaking, the religious relation attains its purity; (iii) soteriologically speaking, evangelical religion finds at length its full expression and its secure stability. Theism comes to its rights only in a teleological view of the universe, which recognizes in the whole course of events the orderly working out of the plan of God, whose will is consequently conceived as the ultimate cause of all things. The religious relation attains its purity only when an attitude of absolute dependence on God is not merely assumed, as in the act, say, of prayer, but is sustained through all the activities of life, intellectual, emotional, executive. And evangelical religion reaches its full manifestation and its stable form only when the sinful soul rests in humble, self-emptying trust purely on the God of grace as the immediate and sole source of all the efficiency which enters into its salvation. From these things shine out upon us the formative principle of Calvinism. The Calvinist is the man who sees God behind all phenomena, and in all that occurs recognizes the hand of God, working out His will; who makes the attitude of the soul to God in prayer the permanent attitude in all its life activities; and who casts himself on the grace of God alone, excluding every trace of dependence on self from the whole work of his salvation.

I think it important to insist here that Calvinism is not a specific variety of theistic thought, religious experience, evangelical faith, but the perfect expression of these things. The difference between it and other forms of theism, religion, evangelicalism, is a difference not of kind but of degree. There are not many kinds of theism, religion, evangelicalism, each with its own special characteristics, among which men are at liberty to choose, as may suit their individual tastes. There is but one kind of theism, religion, evangelicalism, and if there are several constructions laying claim to these names they differ from one another, not as correlative species of a more inclusive genus, but only as more or less good or bad specimens of the same thing differ from one another.

Calvinism comes forward simply as pure theism, religion, evangelicalism, as over against less pure theism, religion, evangelicalism. It does not take its position then by the side of other types of these things; it takes its place over them, as what they too ought to be. It has no difficulty thus, in recognizing the theistic character of all truly theistic thought, the religious note in all really religious manifestations, the evangelical quality of all actual evangelical faith. It refuses to be set antagonistically over against these where they really exist in any degree. It claims them in every instance of their emergence as its own, and seeks only to give them their due place in thought and life. Whoever believes in God, whoever recognizes his dependence on God, whoever hears in his heart the echo of the Soli Deo gloria of the evangelical profession--by whatever name he may call himself; by whatever logical puzzles his understanding may be confused--Calvinism recognizes such as its own, and as only requiring to give full validity to those fundamental principles which underlie and give its body to all true religion to become explicitly a Calvinist.

Calvinism is born, we perceive, of the sense of God. God fills the whole horizon of the Calvinist's feeling and thought. One of the consequences which flow from this is the high supernaturalism which informs at once his religious consciousness and his doctrinal construction. Calvinism indeed would not be badly defined as the tendency which is determined to do justice to the immediately supernatural, as in the first so in the second creation. The strength and purity of its apprehension of the supernatural Fact (which is God) removes all embarrassment from it in the presence of the supernatural act (which is miracle). In everything which enters into the process of the recovery of sinful man to good and to God, it is impelled by the force of its first principle to assign the initiative to God. A supernatural revelation in which God makes known to man His will and His purposes of grace; a supernatural record of the revelation in a supernaturally given Book, in which God gives His revelation permanence and extension ,--such things are to the Calvinist matters of course. And above all things, he can but insist with the utmost strenuousness on the immediate supernaturalness of the actual work of redemption; this of course, in its impetration. It is no strain to his faith to believe in a supernatural Redeemer, breaking His way to earth through a Virgin's womb, bursting the bonds of death and returning to His Father's side to share the glory which He had with the Father before the world was. Nor can he doubt that this supernaturally purchased redemption is applied to the soul in an equally supernatural work of the Holy Spirit.

Thus it comes about that monergistic regeneration--"irresistible grace," "effectual calling," our older theologians called it,--becomes the hinge of the Calvinistic soteriology, and lies much more deeply imbedded in the system than many a doctrine more closely connected with it in the popular mind. Indeed, the soteriological significance of predestination itself consists to the Calvinist largely in the safeguard it affords to the immediate supernaturalness of salvation. What lies at the heart of his soteriology is absolute exclusion of creaturely efficiency in the induction of the saving process, that the pure grace of God in salvation may be magnified. Only so could he express his sense of men's complete dependence as sinners on the free mercy of a saving God; or extrude the evil leaven of synergism, by which God is robbed of His glory and man is encouraged to attribute to some power, some act, some initiative of his own, his participation in that salvation which in reality has come to him from pure grace.

There is nothing therefore, against which Calvinism sets its face with more firmness than every form and degree of auto-soterism. Above everything else, it is determined to recognize God, in His son Jesus Christ, acting through the Holy Spirit whom He has sent, as our veritable Saviour. To Calvinism, sinful man stands in need, not of inducements or assistance to save himself; but precisely of saving; and Jesus Christ has come not to advise, or urge, or woo, or help him to save himself; but to save him; to save him through the prevalent working on him of the Holy Spirit. This is the root of the Calvinistic soteriology, and it is because this deep sense of human helplessness and this profound consciousness of indebtedness for all that enters into salvation to the free grace of God is the root of its soteriology, that election becomes to Calvinism the cor cordis of the Gospel. He who knows that it is God who has chosen him, and not he who has chosen God, and that he owes every step and stage of his salvation to the working out of this choice of God, would be an ingrate indeed if he gave not the whole glory of his salvation to the inexplicable election of the Divine love.

Calvinism however, is not merely a soteriology. Deep as its interest is in salvation, it cannot escape the question--"Why should God thus intervene in the lives of sinners to rescue them from the consequences of their sin?" And it cannot miss the answer--"Because it is to the praise of the glory of His grace." Thus it cannot pause until it places the scheme of salvation itself in relation with a complete world-view in which it becomes subsidiary to the glory of the Lord God Almighty. If all things are from God, so to Calvinism all things are also unto God, and to it God will be all in all. It is born of the reflection in the heart of man of the glory of a God who will not give His honour to another, and draws its life from constant gaze upon this great image. And let us not fail punctually to note, that "it is the only system in which the whole order of the world is thus brought into a rational unity with the doctrine of grace, and in which the glorification of God is carried out with absolute completeness." Therefore the future of Christianity--as its past has done--lies in its hands. For, it is certainly.true, as has been said by a profound thinker of our own time, that "it is only with such a universal conception of God, established in a living way, that we can face with hope of complete conquest all the spiritual dangers and terrors of our times." "It, however," as the same thinker continues, "is deep enough and large enough and divine enough, rightly understood, to confront them and do battle with them all in vindication of the Creator, Preserver and Governor of the world, and of the Justice and Love of the divine Personality."

This is the system of doctrine to the elaboration and defence of which John Calvin gave all his powers nearly four hundred years ago. And it is chiefly because he gave all his powers to commending to us this system of doctrine, that we are here today to thank God for giving to the world the man who has given to the world this precious gift.


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To: JesseShurun
Wow post #500, only 49,500 to go.
501 posted on 04/28/2003 8:11:27 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: P-Marlowe
OBJECTION OVERRULLED! The concept of free will permeates the Bible, unless God is disengenuous when he demands things from his creation and provides them with no ability to meet that demand.

Now do you presume to be Judge and prosecution? i think not. (btw, will get to your freepmail inquiry asap).

If it please the court, the prosecution has yet to produce a single shred of evidence for free will aside from that being an attribute of the Allmighty God! What the Prosecution has produced is nothing more than the Kantian assertion that "ought implies can" which is not acceptable from even an Arminian perspective, as this line of reasoning leads one to the heretical Full Pelagian position.

I will give you one verse that clearly demonstrates that God intends man to make up his own mind in regard to his dealings with God:

Deu 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

The choice is there. God has surrendered to man the freewill to respond, to choose betwen life and death, blessing or cursing and he has given man the adivce to Choose life.

On the contrary, the context of the Deuteronomy Passage proves that ought does not imply can. The passage continues:

15) And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
16) And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.
17) Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?
18) And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.
19) Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel.
20) For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.
21) And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware.
Deuteronomy 31:15-21 KJV, emphasis by me

God did indeed give them a law which He knew that they would not and could not keep.

i'm going to edit your post somewhat, because you forgot to close off the italics in the section where you comment, took me a second to realise that.

IF God has perfect foreknowlege of all things, including the possible contingincies (forgive the spelling!) THEN He, in going ahead with that particular creation, is the ultimate cause of evil and sin

What God created was good. When God gave to his creation the free will to choose life or to choose death, to love God or rebel against him, it was good. Now your saying that because the potential for evil exists within something good, that the creator of that good actually created something evil. That is a logical fallacy. It is the same as saying that because A follows B, that A necessarily caused B. Thus even though evil followed God's creation, it does not follow that God created evil. Evil was created by those who chose to exercise their God-Given free-will to rebel against their Creator.

What God created is indeed called good by God. You have left something out, The creation is by and large without any will AT ALL! It is not sentient any more than the rocks in my garden are. Yet, even though the majority of the creation is not responsible for evil, indeed is incabable of holding any responsibility, and that includes wildlife, God cursed the entire creation.

As for the rest of it, you have committed a logical falacy of your own: It is an unproven assertion that Choice = Free will. All Calvinist believe that man makes choices, we simply say that he is not free because he cannot by virtue of his fallen nature do good or choose good for good's sake (i am allowing for enlightened self-interest, which all men have). This is the testimony of scripture (Romans 3:9-20).

Concerning your potential for sin argument. This neccessarily begs the question of how that potential got to be there. On the contrary, i am quite logical on this point. This is one of the most basic laws of logic with out which we have no knowlege at all. It is codified as follows:

Every event must have an anticeedent cause

Those anticeedent causes (which become effects in other relationships) must have an Ultimate Cause. In the case of Lucifer, the cause HAD to be God. The single argument remains...God, having perfect foreknowlege of Lucifer's behavior, chose none the less to create Lucifer, in effect, ordaining him to condemnation.

Thus while it is true that Evil came about by the creation of something good, it cannot be said that the intent of the creator was to create evil. Morphine is good if you are in pain, it is evil if it is used improperly. The person who discovered Morphine created Morphine. Morphine was intended to alleviate pain and in that sense it is good. It, like all of God's creation, is subject to misuse. God is not responsible for the misuse of that which is Good, unless God actually causes the misuse. I don't believe god makes men sin. I therefore don't believe that God created evil. Unless you can claim that God really really really wants men to sin against him, then you can't claim that God created evil. And if you wish to claim that God is like that, then God not only created evil, but God IS evil.

If evil came about by the creation of something good then the words of Jesus are contradicted:

16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 7:16-18 KJV, emphasis by me

As for the intention of the Allmighty, think about your statement for a second. The God who has perfect forknowlege of everything that can be and everything that could have been, could have easily avoided the entrance of evil into the creation by simply choosing a different alternative, YET DID NOT DO SO! It must have then been His will to have evil in the creation. The morphine illustration is not an analog, because the Law of unintended consequences does not apply to a God with perfect foreknowlege.

It appears that you have yet to explain how evil can come about in a good creation (to include Lucifer), unless God wills it to be so.

Take your best shot at that one Marlowe.


502 posted on 04/28/2003 8:14:05 PM PDT by Calvinist_Dark_Lord (He must increase, but I must decrease)
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To: drstevej; Law
I was expecting Foghorn Leghorn. You're slipping.

How's This?

503 posted on 04/28/2003 8:17:41 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
I say, that's better, son!
504 posted on 04/28/2003 8:20:07 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Point of order.

In your opinion did god ACTIVELY set out to create evil, or did God create a universe, (a universe in which his creation was given the ability to rebel against his perfect will) in which evil was inevitable?

In other words was it God's hope that there would be evil in the universe or was it God's permissive will that there would be evil -- that evil would occur -- and that ultimately this would glorify him?

Seems to me that some of you guys believe that God really really really liked the idea of an evil and wicked universe and that it was his intention to make men so that they would commit all manner of murder and blasphemy just because it pleased God that they do so.

Was evil the perfect will of God or was it something that came about through the permissive will of God.

505 posted on 04/28/2003 8:30:26 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Corin Stormhands
I am once again remind of the Calvinists thirst for blood, any blood.

Corin, lighten up. Over on the Catholic Threads I have run across people who really think they are drinking blood and eating human/God flesh at the sacrament table. Talk about a bunch of blood suckers. Yeeshh.

There is obviously a problem with definitions going on here. There also appears to be a cadre of hyper-Calvinists lurinking and posting, even though no true hyper-Calvinist would ever admit to being a hyper Calvinist-- they just assume that normal Calvinists are Arminians.

506 posted on 04/28/2003 8:37:33 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
Are you saying that Matthew 7:18 is an argument for predestination? That the elect can not bring forth evil fruit and the in-elect can not bring forth good fruit? Perhaps I misunderstood you.
507 posted on 04/28/2003 8:40:37 PM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: so_real
Everyone's name is written in the Book of Life first and then blotted out as necessary.

Beg your pardon? Where is that written?

508 posted on 04/28/2003 8:58:33 PM PDT by Gamecock (5 SOLAS)
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To: P-Marlowe
There is obviously a problem with definitions going on here. There also appears to be a cadre of hyper-Calvinists lurinking and posting, even though no true hyper-Calvinist would ever admit to being a hyper Calvinist-- they just assume that normal Calvinists are Arminians.

Nah, "hyper-calvinist" is always reserved for someone more Calvinist than the speaker is. As such, it in reality means nothing. To some Arminians, there is no such thing as a moderate Calvinist -- they're all hyper. But no Calvinist claims to be a hyper-Calvinist. Ergo, the term is of limited usefulness.

For instance, to some in this discussion, I am a hyper-calvinist since I am a 5-pointer who leans supralapsarian. But I certainly do not consider myself "hyper," since there are those on this board more extreme than I.

509 posted on 04/28/2003 8:58:50 PM PDT by jude24 ("Facts? You can use facts to prove anything that's even REMOTELY true!" - Homer Simpson)
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To: P-Marlowe
Apparently I need to say it a bit slower, so here I go.

Okay, there are two types of the Gospel call, effectual and outward. The outward call is simply what you posted, where God says come to me and make a choice. The inward call is God working in people to accomplish a definite salvation after that outward calling and is the type of call mentioned in Romans 8's order of salvation.
510 posted on 04/28/2003 9:00:14 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (God Reigns!)
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To: rwfromkansas
In other words when God makes an outward call he is being completely insincere, but when he makes an effectual call he is being completely honest.

Ok, I get it.

Thanks.

Moros.

511 posted on 04/28/2003 9:03:49 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: Gamecock
Apparently she skipped over the Revelation verse that says written "from the foundation of the world" :)
512 posted on 04/28/2003 9:08:09 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (God Reigns!)
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To: jude24
I have not been able to decide where I fit on the supra/infra debate. The more I delve into the subject, the more I get confused. Both sides have strong appeals to me.
513 posted on 04/28/2003 9:09:02 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (God Reigns!)
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To: P-Marlowe
No.

When someone calls out to you to do something they are just playing with you? What kind of logic is that?

God must use the outward call, EVANGELISM, to accomplish the inward call in the people intended to be saved.

Even with predestination, those not predestined still willingly reject that outward call and are doomed for this.
514 posted on 04/28/2003 9:11:00 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (God Reigns!)
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To: Gamecock
Beg your pardon? Where is that written?

No need to beg :-)

Two places that I know of are Exodus and Revelation. There may be others ...

Exod. 32:33: "And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book."

Rev.3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

That which has not been written, can not be blotted out. If only the names of the elect are written in the Book of Life, it would pre-exist in a perfectly accurate condition and no names would require removal.
515 posted on 04/28/2003 9:12:06 PM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: rwfromkansas
You people still have to establish that God actually has found a way to make the fall meaningless.
516 posted on 04/28/2003 9:13:52 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (Arminian: person believing the Fall was no big deal and that he can pick himself back up without God)
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To: Calvinist_Dark_Lord
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Applying your logic to the idea of creation, it would have to be said that a Good Creation cannot bring forth the creation of Evil but a corrupt creation would bring forth evil.

Applying Matthew 7:17-18 to the creation we see that evil exists as part of the creation and therefore contrary to what God said when he completed it, the creation was not good, it was corrupt.

So are you really sure you want to apply Matthew 7:17-18 to all things. Or should we just limit it to trees?

517 posted on 04/28/2003 9:14:08 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: P-Marlowe
Moros.

Moros = black beans and rice?
518 posted on 04/28/2003 9:14:12 PM PDT by so_real (It's all about sharing the Weather)
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To: rwfromkansas
(Arminian: person believing the Fall was no big deal and that he can pick himself back up without God)

You really should not bear false witness in your tag line. It is unbecoming.

519 posted on 04/28/2003 9:15:33 PM PDT by P-Marlowe
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To: so_real
He's just afraid to actually say moron.
520 posted on 04/28/2003 9:15:43 PM PDT by rwfromkansas (Arminian: person believing the Fall was no big deal and that he can pick himself back up without God)
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