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Rome is Burning while the Pope is Fiddling (A Reply to Carl Olson and Envoy Magazine)
Catholic Apologetics International ^ | January 3, 2003 | Mario Derksen

Posted on 01/30/2003 10:32:02 AM PST by Land of the Irish

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1 posted on 01/30/2003 10:32:02 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: Aloysius; Dajjal; Telit Likitis; ultima ratio; maximillian; Scupoli; Loyalist; Zviadist; ...
Ping
2 posted on 01/30/2003 10:33:39 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: Land of the Irish
in so many ways, has not even been implemented yet.

The funny thing is that this is what the Soviets kept saying as their economy kept collapsing: "as soon as we can fully implement communism, this will be the land of milk and honey." We all know what happened there...

The Neo-Caths have been feeding this line almost as long as the Soviets did: "our new system is the absolute best, unfortunately it is not implemented fully, so please disregard all negative evidence all around you. As soon as we fully implement it, the negatives you see around you that the implementation process produced will disappear."

This is kind of like an alcoholic drinking to get sober.

4 posted on 01/30/2003 10:54:33 AM PST by Zviadist
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To: Land of the Irish
Last time I checked, Pope John XXIII brought about Vatican II, not the Holy Spirit.
And last time I checked, Constantine brought about Nicea. So what?
5 posted on 01/30/2003 11:39:25 AM PST by eastsider
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To: eastsider
You leave out the important second point of the sentence: "The only thing the Holy Spirit did was make sure that nothing at Vatican II would be endowed with the note of infallibility. And this job He did very well!"

That is a very important -- critical -- part.

Vatican II is NOT an infallible Council. Someday it will be overturned, and the decay will begin to subside.

6 posted on 01/30/2003 12:16:51 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
Mario Derksen has no more authority to declare which councils are guided by the Holy Spirit than he has to determine the which scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit.
7 posted on 01/30/2003 12:21:54 PM PST by eastsider
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To: Zviadist
Vatican II is NOT an infallible Council. Someday it will be overturned, and the decay will begin to subside.

Overturned? Or a combination of finished and correctly interpreted? Once the worst of the liberals are out of the picture and the priesthood is built back up with orthodox young men, there shouldn't be anymore hijacking.
8 posted on 01/30/2003 12:24:13 PM PST by Desdemona
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To: Zviadist
Do you factor the "Holy Spirit" into any of this?
9 posted on 01/30/2003 12:28:00 PM PST by Codie
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To: Aloysius; Dajjal; Telit Likitis; ultima ratio; maximillian; Scupoli; Loyalist; Zviadist; HDMZ; ...
<St Pius X in his first Encyclical which served also as the blueprint of his pontificate:

     "He who considers these things is entitled to fear that such a perversion of minds might represent the beginning of those evils foretold for the end of time, forming as it were, their stepping stone on to the earth, and that the Son of Perdition, of whom the Apostle speaks, might already be coming amongst us. For religion is being attacked with the greatest boldness and vigour, the dogmas of the Faith are being battered, and no effort is spared to tear asunder man's link with the divine. Moreover – and this is what the same Apostle tells us is typical of Antichrist – man in his unspeakable temerity is usurping the place of the Creator, and placing himself above all that bears the name of God. Powerless to extinguish within himself entirely the concept of God, he yet shakes off the yoke of His majesty and dedicates to himself a temple in the form of the visible world, where he receives the homage of his own kind...

     "That is why all our efforts must be directed towards bringing mankind back under the rule of Christ. To achieve the result of Our hopes, it is vital to spare no efforts in uprooting entirely this monstrous iniquity peculiar to the times we live in, which leads man to set himself up in place of God." (E Supremi Apostolatus, 4 October 1903)

Pope Paul VI - a blasphemous parody of the HYMN TO CHRIST THE KING OF THE AGES (Angelus, 7 February 1971):

"Honour to Man!

"Honour to his thought; honour to his scientific knowledge;

"Honour to his technical skill; honour to his work;

"Honour to human endurance;

"Honour to that combination of scientific activity and organisation by which man, unlike the other animals, can invest his spirit and his manual dexterity with instruments of conquest;

"HONOUR TO MAN, KING OF THE EARTH, AND TODAY PRINCE OF THE HEAVENS!"...

     Pope Paul VI:

     "Man is both giant and divine, in his origin and his destiny. Honour, therefore, to man, honour to his dignity, to his spirit, to his life." (13 July 1969)

10 posted on 01/30/2003 1:09:50 PM PST by Francisco
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To: Desdemona; ultima ratio
Once the worst of the liberals are out of the picture and the priesthood is built back up with orthodox young men, there shouldn't be anymore hijacking.

Oh yeah...then we'll get the "springtime" we've been promised for forty years. I am sure it is just around the corner...

11 posted on 01/30/2003 1:18:59 PM PST by Zviadist
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To: Zviadist
LOL........
12 posted on 01/30/2003 3:15:19 PM PST by Scupoli
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To: Land of the Irish
Michael S Rose's new book as well as his previous excellent work points the "finger" of blame, not at VAT II but at the liberal's use of " in the intent of VAT II " phraseology to ram their mindless new age and pro-secular version of what the Chruch should be.

The recent series on EWTN-" the documents of VATICAN II ", show the huge gulf between what was actually published, and what was done by the liberal clergy to change the Church in their image.

No more 1st Confession before 1st Communion in their churches ( even though it is still required ), "centering prayer meetings", butt-dropping Baptisms instead of water being poured over the head, jokes told by the Priest during Mass- none of this was from VAT II.

The horrific desecration of the church buildings themselves came from the liberals wanting to follow a ART & Architecture book that was never approved by the Church Bishops ( the removal of the Tabernacle from the Sanctuary into a small room, often hidden from sight, the removal of kneelers, etc ) and the singing of "We are god" songs instead of the proper "You are God" hymns.

Sure there is a lot to like about the older Tridentine Mass, but Vat II never meant to CHANGE the MASS itself, onnly the language used in it. Most people realize that the holding hands part is more of a "we are god" new age movement and a large distraction from the most important part of the Mass-the Consecration. But as long as there are "Liturgists" running the ops, and defrocked nuns and former priests in the Church councils running the Parishes-they above all do not want to know the real documents of VAT II.

13 posted on 01/30/2003 3:18:37 PM PST by haole
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To: Diago; narses; Loyalist; BlackElk; american colleen; saradippity; Polycarp; Dajjal; ...
Thanks for the excellent article. This one really lays it on the line. Mario Dirksen is a very young guy who was not even raised in a traditional family. With young people like him, maybe there is hope after all.
14 posted on 01/30/2003 3:44:04 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Zviadist
The funny thing is that this is what the Soviets kept saying as their economy kept collapsing: "as soon as we can fully implement communism, this will be the land of milk and honey." We all know what happened there...

It's amazing how many similarities there are. And didn't Mary tell the children at Fatima, "Russia will spread her errors throughout the world."? It took over 70 years for the Russian communists to fall. Hopefully the revolution in the Church will not last any longer.

15 posted on 01/30/2003 3:46:54 PM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian; .45MAN; AKA Elena; al_c; american colleen; Angelus Errare; Antoninus; aposiopetic; ...
Where the hell are you guys on all the culture wars threads and general "Catholicism versus the world" apologetics threads?

"Traditionalism" is so obsessed with this, they have completely abandoned the culture wars to the pagan hoards. I rarely if ever see the usual schismatic suspects engaging the culture of death advocates on this Forum, preferring instead to remain here on their feverish high fiving schismatic threads.

I've given you the benefit of the doubt far too long. Your efforts give aid and comfort to the enemy, if for no other reason that your obsessions take you away from real apostolic endeavors.

Take me off your ping list.

16 posted on 01/30/2003 4:06:33 PM PST by Polycarp
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To: Polycarp
And that goes for their damned cat, too..... 8~0
17 posted on 01/30/2003 4:23:01 PM PST by tracer
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To: Desdemona
The evidence is in. Do you need another forty years of disasters? How about another forty after that? We've had the renewal, and the renewal of the renewal, and now here comes the renewal of the renewal of the renewal. Remember the Jubilee Year? It fizzled. Remember 'Catch the Spirit'? They didn't.

Do you think orthodox young men entering the Novus Ordo priesthood will change anything once they've been processed through modernist seminaries? Not at all. In the end you will still have an ersatz Catholicism which cannot preach the Gospel nor bring souls to salvation by means of the sacred.
18 posted on 01/30/2003 4:35:28 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Polycarp
This deserves to be highlighted, and repeated:

"Traditionalism" is so obsessed with this, they have completely abandoned the culture wars to the pagan hoards. I rarely if ever see the usual schismatic suspects engaging the culture of death advocates on this Forum, preferring instead to remain here on their feverish high fiving schismatic threads.

Navel-gazing is a popular sport among ultra-trads and schismatics.

It's all about ME, after all. They can't be bothered with the rabble outside their doors.

19 posted on 01/30/2003 4:41:33 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: Maximilian
This one really lays it on the line. Mario Dirksen is a very young guy who was not even raised in a traditional family. With young people like him, maybe there is hope after all.

He's bought the John Birch Society line that the Masons are behind the destruction of the liturgy.

Young people like him are regularly infected with conspiracy theories.

His "knowledge" of the pre-Vatican II Church is limited to what he reads in The Remnant and Latin Mass Magazine.

He just as well be watching Leave it to Beaver.

20 posted on 01/30/2003 4:45:00 PM PST by sinkspur
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