Posted on 01/27/2003 11:33:33 AM PST by Aloysius
Una Voce America has received a communication from the Pontifical Ecclesia Dei Commission, concerning an article which appeared in The Remnant newspaper and various websites. At the request of the Commission, we are publishing it below.
Pontificia Commissio "Ecclesia Dei" January 18, 2003
Greetings in the Hearts of Jesus & Mary! There have been several inquiries about our letter of 27 September 2002. In order to clarify things, Msgr. Perl has made the following response.
Oremus pro invicem.
In cordibus Jesu et Mariæ, Msgr. Arthur B. Calkins
Msgr. Camille Perl's response:
Unfortunately, as you will understand, we have no way of controlling what is done with our letters by their recipients. Our letter of 27 September 2002, which was evidently cited in The Remnant and on various websites, was intended as a private communication dealing with the specific circumstances of the person who wrote to us. What was presented in the public forum is an abbreviated version of that letter which omits much of our pastoral counsel. Since a truncated form of this letter has now become public, we judge it appropriate to present the larger context of our response.
In a previous letter to the same correspondent we had already indicated the canonical status of the Society of St. Pius X which we will summarize briefly here.
1.) The priests of the Society of St. Pius X are validly ordained, but they are suspended from exercising their priestly functions. To the extent that they adhere to the schism of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, they are also excommunicated.
2.) Concretely this means that the Masses offered by these priests are valid, but illicit i.e., contrary to the law of the Church.
Points 1 and 3 in our letter of 27 September 2002 to this correspondent are accurately reported. His first question was "Can I fulfill my Sunday obligation by attending a Pius X Mass" and our response was:
"1. In the strict sense you may fulfill your Sunday obligation by attending a Mass celebrated by a priest of the Society of St. Pius X."
His second question was "Is it a sin for me to attend a Pius X Mass" and we responded stating:
"2. We have already told you that we cannot recommend your attendance at such a Mass and have explained the reason why. If your primary reason for attending were to manifest your desire to separate yourself from communion with the Roman Pontiff and those in communion with him, it would be a sin. If your intention is simply to participate in a Mass according to the 1962 Missal for the sake of devotion, this would not be a sin."
His third question was: "Is it a sin for me to contribute to the Sunday collection a Pius X Mass" to which we responded:
"3. It would seem that a modest contribution to the collection at Mass could be justified."
Further, the correspondent took the Commission to task for not doing its job properly and we responded thus:
"This Pontifical Commission does not have the authority to coerce Bishops to provide for the celebration of the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. Nonetheless, we are frequently in contact with Bishops and do all that we can to see that this provision is made. However, this provision also depends on the number of people who desire the 'traditional' Mass, their motives and the availability of priests who can celebrate it.
"You also state in your letter that the Holy Father has given you a 'right' to the Mass according to the 1962 Roman Missal. This is not correct. It is true that he has asked his brother Bishops to be generous in providing for the celebration of this Mass, but he has not stated that it is a 'right'. Presently it constitutes an exception to the Church's law and may be granted when the local Bishop judges it to be a valid pastoral service and when he has the priests who are available to celebrate it. Every Catholic has a right to the sacraments (cf. Code of Canon Law, canon 843), but he does not have a right to them according to the rite of his choice."
We hope that this puts in a clearer light the letter about which you asked us.
With prayerful best wishes for this New Year of Our Lord 2003, I remain
Sincerely yours in Christ, Rev. Msgr. Camille Perl Secretary
<> One of my smart, non-injun, friends pointed out to me that Vere's progression was from Satanism ==> Christianity ==> SSPX Schism ==> Unity with Pope in Worship, Doctrine, Authority.
When one abandons Satanism and renounces their past and makes it, through various stages, to Union with the Vicar of Christ in the fullness of truth in the Church Jesus established, isn't that worthy of praise rather than dismissiveness?<>
Good grief. You wont even answer the questions, and you whine about proof? Answer them. Your answers will be evidence enough and you know it.Most attending the SSPX dont explicitly seem to desire separation from the Pope, but they usually do seem to desire separation from Novus Ordo attending Catholics.I ask you again, where is your evidence to make these assertions against a very large number of people?
How many SSPX chapels have you been to?Far too many, though I do not have a count for you.
How many traditional Catholics have you queried on this topic?I have known hundreds of traditional Catholics well, not mentioning those I have known in passing. Nearly every one of them prefers to avoid Novus Ordo Catholics. It is amazing. Old friends, thinking you are still SSPX, greet you with great joy. Then they learn you are attending an indult, or shudder, a Novus Ordo, and the cold shoulders come out nearly instantly. Not everyone is like this, but too many are.
Until you demonstrate some basis for your broad-brush assertions, please refrain from these types of judgements. I suspect you would not want others to make similar assertions towards the faithful who attend Novus Ordo Masses.You mean like Maxmillians comment the other day that 99% of "Novus Ordo" Catholics are in a state of mortal sin? Somehow I doubt you objected to that.
You know full well that many Society adherents prefer to keep some degree of separation between themselves and those of us who attend the Novus Ordo. To deny this is to deny the Society itself exists, as it is the whole basis for the organization.
Dominus Vobiscum
patent +AMDG
You are as arrogant as Black Elk.Why thank you! ;-)
So did the Old Catholics. They followed Trent, not Vatican I. They were, are, and at this point likely always will be,<> Doesn't the SSPX tell their supporters that attending the Missa Normativa does not satisfy the Sunday requirement?<>Yup. On absolutely solid theological and moral grounds. The Society follows Trent, not Bugnini.
SCHISMATIC.
So Archbishop Lefebvre was right to disobey and never incurred the offense of schism.Whatever. Youve admitted otherwise in the past. He was excommunicated, and he was schismatic. Get over it.
Notice how the charge of schism has never been applied to the Chinese bishops who have likewise disobeyed the Pope and consecrated priests illicitly.It depends on the Bishop. As weve discussed before, this situation is a great deal more complex than your simplification.
patent +AMDG
The fact is, if you are not in communion with the Pope, you are not in communion with the Church, and if you're not in communion with the Church, you are not a Catholic in good standing. You might disagree with some of the things that are happening, and some we may even agree on, but the fact is the Roman Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, Pope John Paul II is the successor to St. Peter, and the gates of Hell will not prevail. We only answer for ourselves and our actions, our leaders will answer for theirs. But to split off from the church we are, in fact, not following the Holy Spirit, but man.
God bless.
What questions are you referring to? I believe you have confused me with another poster.
I disagree with Maximillian's statement. I think he's a little high. Most of the old ladies that go to the Novus Ordo are probably not in a state of mortal sin. My guess is that they account for more than 1% of those who attend the Novus Ordo. It seems that the correct number should be about 90%.
<> I too thought I detected evidence of an intoxicant-induced estimation.<>
Most of the old ladies that go to the Novus Ordo are probably not in a state of mortal sin.
<>"It's the little ol' Lady from St. Edwina's...Pray, Granny....Obey, Granny...Pray, Pay and Obey....<>
My guess is that they account for more than 1% of those who attend the Novus Ordo. It seems that the correct number should be about 90%
<> Cool. I am a mortal sinner for hanging with the Pope.<>
Ask your friend. He seems to think he knows the motives of many, many people he has never met.
Not likely. See the questions in Post 30, directed to you:Good grief. You wont even answer the questions, and you whine about proof? Answer them. Your answers will be evidence enough and you know it.What questions are you referring to? I believe you have confused me with another poster.
The Society itself preaches this very separation, it is its reason for being. If you disagree, let me know. Also, please let me know if you prefer to be separate from your local Ordinary, and from many of the local Novus Ordo attending Catholics, and if you do have a devotion or preference for attending Mass with the 1962 missal over attending the Novus Ordo.So, do you associate with Novus Ordo Catholics? Do you attend pro-life marches with them? Go to their Church? Or do you prefer to hold yourself entirely separate when it comes to Church life? Do you pay any obedience at all to your local Ordinary? Do you do anything with respect to him, such as even responding to the his annual appeal? I strongly doubt it, but you are free to answer as you will.
AS to the devotion to the 1962 missal, I would be more than a bit surprised to see you answer in the negative, but do you have a preference for it over the more recent missals?
Hypocrite.You mean like Maxmillians comment the other day that 99% of "Novus Ordo" Catholics are in a state of mortal sin? Somehow I doubt you objected to that.I disagree with Maximillian's statement. I think he's a little high. Most of the old ladies that go to the Novus Ordo are probably not in a state of mortal sin. My guess is that they account for more than 1% of those who attend the Novus Ordo. It seems that the correct number should be about 90%.
You complain about my rather innocuous comment that Most attending the SSPX dont explicitly seem to desire separation from the Pope, but they usually do seem to desire separation from Novus Ordo attending Catholics. You complain that I should please refrain from these types of judgments. Then you go and judge the souls of 90% of 1 billion Catholics to be in a state of mortal sin.
Hypocrite.
patent +AMDG
You have more than one upped me in that category. I hardly judge whether the Society adherents are in states of mortal sin or not. You apparently do.Cool. I am a mortal sinner for hanging with the Pope.Ask your friend. He seems to think he knows the motives of many, many people he has never met.
patent +AMDG
That's not a question. Try again, liar.
Hypocrite.
I said it seems, to be the case (just like you seem to know all of the motives of those who attend SSPX masses). Seems you can't take a dose of your own medicine, can you?
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