Replies

I'm not going to get in the middle of this debate, but suffice it to say that the monsignour I was refering to is a well-respected, very, very conservative, pro-life leader who I completely trust. He's not at my parish, but one I attend on occasion, and he's willing to stand up to liberal Catholics and liberal Catholic politicians.

The fact is, if you are not in communion with the Pope, you are not in communion with the Church, and if you're not in communion with the Church, you are not a Catholic in good standing. You might disagree with some of the things that are happening, and some we may even agree on, but the fact is the Roman Catholic Church was established by Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago, Pope John Paul II is the successor to St. Peter, and the gates of Hell will not prevail. We only answer for ourselves and our actions, our leaders will answer for theirs. But to split off from the church we are, in fact, not following the Holy Spirit, but man.

God bless.

You accept this monsignor's word as if it were divine revelation. You must be a very young person to offer such blind trust to someone so badly informed. I'm sure he's a nice man and his heart is in the right place. But he's simply flat-out wrong. You then say, "The fact is, if you are not in communion with the Pope, you are not in communion with the Church, and if you're not in communion with the Church, you are not a Catholic in good standing."

There is no "fact is" in this case. Even Msgr. Perl in his letter above, admits Catholics may attend SSPX Masses which are valid and which allow the faithful to fulfill their Sunday obligation. He says it depends on whether the Catholics involved intend to express separation from communion with the Pope or not. I don't intend any such thing--so obviously you are talking through your hat.

Not that I'm a big fan of Msgr. Perle, but the man is playing with a lousy hand. He knows the SSPX is not in schism--but he can't come right out and say so without people scratching their heads and wondering what all the fuss was about back in 1988 when Rome tried to dismantle Catholic Tradition once and for all. So he waffles and dreams up states of intention that never existed in anybody's mind. This is comparable to an earlier claim that the faithful who attended SSPX Mass ran some kind of danger of developing a "schismatic mentality".

<> Tsk, Tsk, Tsk...Gophack. Will you never learn? The SSPX is UberChurch and they judge whether or not the Pope ought to be obeyed. They judge if he is acting as a Catholic or a Mason intent upon "destroying all tradition."

If they judge he IS acting as they say he ought, they will obey. If not, they are not only free to disobey, they have a Divine DUTY to Disobey. No Pray, No Pay, No Obey. THAT is the outward sign of their inward Faith. Capiche?

The schismatics have Divinely-Constituted authority. That is Tradition. Who died and resurrected and made John Paul II Pope anyway? We all know that Lefebvre ought to have been Pope...Sheesh....

In fact, he IS Pope; of "Eternal Rome." Put that in your obedient pipe ..you deluded sheep.

"Thou art Lefebvre and in your Schism I will save my Church from Apostate Popes and the gates of an Ecumenical Council and a reformed Liturgy will not prevail. Thou, O Schismatic Church will teach the Magisterium and the whole world. He who hears the schism, hears me. BTW, that whole "Keys to the Kindom" thing was WAY overblown. Like I meant that literally..."

Now, you may, sensibly, claim they are no different in their attitude, orientation, pride, self-will, and behavior than are Protestants, but, were you to say that, I'd have to disagree.

Protestants have cojones. The only thing preventing schismatics from formally professing Protestantism is a lack of courage

They will wait until the Pope FORMALLY excommunicates the entire insufferable lot of 'em - and - then they will object they are the REAL Catholics; you know, just like all previous schismatics have done

They ask, "Who REALLY is in Schism?" Their answer; "The Pope."

But, don't expect them to act like men...they are sissy schismatics...and not two people would give them the time of day if they embraced integrity and acted on their beliefs.

They think the Pope a heretic, the Second Vatican Council a renegade, stolen Council infected with Masonry and Modernism, the Missa Normativa a protestant worship service yet their roaring accusations are matched with a whelping waltz....it is a mince of the mendacious; a Fandango of the Fairies; a two step of the timid temporisers; a barce of blowhards bellowing at the Pope while bowing behind disingenuous special pleading provided by "canonists" and "liturgists." A truly macbre and sickening display of machismo rhetoric intertwined with epicene posturing. It is Midnight in the Garden of the Schismatic Church of Good and Evil and these bathetic Boys of the Schism can't decide if they are Protestant men or Catholic Chablis'.<>