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To: ponyespresso; computerjunkie; ksen; RochesterFan
From there, I would point to Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15:11-31. There are bucket-fulls of meaning here, but I think the over arching meaning, especially in light of its placement directly after the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin, is that we too are children of the Father who have become lost

These Parables are wonderful proof of predestination and election...not a mythical hole in mans heart that is searching for God.

Note that the coin does not go looking for it's owner it is helpless and inert ..It does not care who's pocket it is in. It is only of value to the owner

The parable of the lost sheep is similar..the sheep is a dumb animal. It does not even know it is lost. It is not looking for its owner..it has no hole in its heart . It states clearly that the sheep belong to the shepherd..they are not goats that will change into sheep they are sheep...and when He speaks they know his voice, because they are already his. The shepherd has to call to them ..they do not go looking for Him...

and, after seeing our pathetic surroundings, where even the food of pigs start to look good to us, we come to the realization that there has to be something, somewhere, that is better that what we've got now. So, like the son who comes begging back to his father in the parable, we too come begging for something, anything, that will satisfy our needs.

That was not a stranger that came looking to have a nice warm spot to sleep and 4 squares a day...this was a son ..he belonged to the Father .This parable speaks of the backslider and the security of the believer. ..it says nothing about a hole in a heart seeking after God..

From there I would point to Romans chapters one and two, which I had mentioned before. We are all given two lights of knowledge of God, the light of creation (Romans 1:20) and the light of conscience (Romans 2:14,15). This is everybody now, after the fall, from the tribesmen of Africa to the teacher at Berkley, all have some inner knowledge of God.

You need to reread Romans 1,2 and 3...It is very clear ..everyman is WITHOUT excuse..every man will be held to the "light" he has been given..that will be the source of his judgement..

So the Jew is LOST unless he keeps the law PERFECTLY . The heathan is LOST unless he keeps the law written on his heart PERFECTLY

The inability of any man to keep the law PERFECTLY condemns all mankind

That is why we need a Savior..that is the point of Pauls letter to the Romans ..YOU need Christ, you can not save yourself. You will stand in judgemet and without the covering of rightousness of Christ you are LOST..it says nothing about man seeking Christ or a hole in His heart

Yes the Bible is about the restoration of the relationship of God and man..the whole Bible is about Jesus from beginning to end...but it is not about man seeking God. The fall saw to that ..man is like Adam after the fall....

    Gen 3:7   And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

     Gen 3:8   And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.

The story of the bible is mans resistance to God..his desire for self help and hiding from God not running to Him

If you find a scripture on the hole in mans heart that is seeking God let me know..Back to Romans

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

943 posted on 10/04/2002 8:19:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
These Parables are wonderful proof of predestination and election...not a mythical hole in mans heart that is searching for God.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Note that the coin does not go looking for it's owner it is helpless and inert ..It does not care who's pocket it is in. It is only of value to the owner

The parable of the lost sheep is similar..the sheep is a dumb animal. It does not even know it is lost. It is not looking for its owner..it has no hole in its heart . It states clearly that the sheep belong to the shepherd..they are not goats that will change into sheep they are sheep...and when He speaks they know his voice, because they are already his. The shepherd has to call to them ..they do not go looking for Him...

and, after seeing our pathetic surroundings, where even the food of pigs start to look good to us, we come to the realization that there has to be something, somewhere, that is better that what we've got now. So, like the son who comes begging back to his father in the parable, we too come begging for something, anything, that will satisfy our needs.

That was not a stranger that came looking to have a nice warm spot to sleep and 4 squares a day...this was a son ..he belonged to the Father .This parable speaks of the backslider and the security of the believer. ..it says nothing about a hole in a heart seeking after God..

Does the Calvinist Bible contain a different Prodigal Son story? In it, does the father go out after the son, and forcibly make him return?

Cause that's Calvinism. The Prodigal Son seems to hinge on the free will of the son, who leaves and then desires to return. Yes, the father will always rejoice when one returns. But the Father did not force irresistable grace on the son.

SD

955 posted on 10/04/2002 8:48:04 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: RnMomof7; ponyespresso; computerjunkie; ksen; RochesterFan; CCWoody; JesseShurun; angelo
Jesus' parable of the Prodigal Son in Luke 15:11-31... is a perfect example of sonship, not salvationship. There is a son who is nearly completly grown in the the mind of his father--"All that I have is yours"--and a son who is still very immature, whom the father waits patiently for him to return.

And the parable about the lost sheep is a parable about sheep, not goats or donkeys.

Nope, RnMomof7, no help for Arminianism in these parables.
957 posted on 10/04/2002 9:00:16 AM PDT by theAmbassador
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To: RnMomof7
Note that the coin does not go looking for it's owner it is helpless and inert ...The parable of the lost sheep is similar

If you notice, I only mentioned the parables of the coin and the sheep as a reference to the placement of the parable of the prodigal son. I did not mention them, in and of themselves, as any basis for my argument. So, everything you say here is fine, but has no bearing on the point I was trying to make about the parable of the prodigal son.

This parable speaks of the backslider and the security of the believer. ..it says nothing about a hole in a heart seeking after God..

You can pigeon-hole this parable down to merely one meaning if you like, however I think there are a lot of different levels it can be look at. Besides, if that parable is really only about the security of the believer, then it is a pretty lousy one.

The inability of any man to keep the law PERFECTLY condemns all mankind...That is why we need a Savior..that is the point of Pauls letter to the Romans ..YOU need Christ, you can not save yourself. You will stand in judgemet and without the covering of rightousness of Christ you are LOST..it says nothing about man seeking Christ or a hole in His heart.

What, are you related to Jessie, who also kept misrepresenting what I say? I have never once said that we do not need a Savior, I have never once said that I can save myself, I have never said that I can get by without the covering of righteousness of Christ. Sheeze.

If you find a scripture on the hole in mans heart that is seeking God let me know.

Never mind. You and your worldview are obviously very happy together. Good luck and God bless on your life together.

958 posted on 10/04/2002 9:06:33 AM PDT by ponyespresso
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To: RnMomof7; drstevej; ponyespresso; computerjunkie; ksen; RochesterFan
The boy was already his Father's son. So was the elder boy.

Who is already a Child of God? A Christian...that's who.

Who ALREADY has an inheritance with God....non-Christians or Christians? Again the answer is "Christian."

These Christians....both of them....were misled by the carnal nature that still lived within them. One was led off into sensual indulgence. The other dwelt in bitterness.

What did each do regarding the carnal nature? What did the Father do with either of them?

The sensually indulgent one came to his senses...a picture of a true believer "recalling" the heavenly gift...and went back home to the Father.

Wonder what happened to the bitter, self-righteous church member? I mean, he didn't lose his sonship, but I wonder what happened?

1,021 posted on 10/05/2002 10:12:09 AM PDT by xzins
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