Posted on 09/30/2002 9:19:01 AM PDT by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
If God did not chose me I could pray 100 sinners prayer...go to communion every day...I could give all I own to the poor..and I would still be lost.
And you know this isn't the case because? (That is, that you aren't fooling yourself)
(but I would not WANT to cj..no man seeks after God..read Romans).
So the "proof" of being saved is the fact that you seek after God?
What about the person above who goes to Church and says the sinners prayer, etc. These are evidence of seeking after God, no? Then they must all be saved.
Angelo has been erneastly seeking after God for many years. So he must be saved, right?
It's no wonder you guys have to mock the experiences of other cultures. Because their attempts to seek after God, even though they have not received Revelation, is evidence that they are all saved. Hooray!
SD
A very candid confession. And it has been ratified by many other Calvinists here. Interesting.
It is really so much easier to live with yourself when you are assured that whatever you do, it is what God preordained. The fear of failure, the fear of any consequence of your choices is alleviated. It is a quite comforting theology, and it is no wonder you win so many over to it.
SD
*grin*
Again right on target. But also right into the blind spot of the Calvinists. Of most "Bible only" Christians, in fact.
When the written Word of God is held as the only valid means of God interfacing with us, it is only natural (get it?) that the tale God tells in Creation is not understood. Cultures who do not have direct revelation like we have, can only see by the lights they were given.
And yes, they do have some light!
SD
So what does the word of God say about the "light" they have?
Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
But that is not true on its face. In my example, the man who steals is guilty of theft, not adultery. He has not kept the law against stealing, but he has kept the law against adultery. Would it be just to punish him for violating all of the Law if he only violated one of them?
I'm assuming that you do believe that He is a Being of infinite worth. Therefore, the crime against Him is one of infinite magnitude. Thus, it is a sin deserving an infinite punishment. Simple logic.
Simply illogical. We are finite, and thus are incapable of infinite action. The magnitude of the crime is based upon what we do, not to whom we do it. Murder is murder. It is not a more serious crime to murder a wealthy and powerful person than it is to murder a drug-addicted prostitute. The identity of the victim is irrelevent to the magnitude of the crime.
God is just. It would be unjust to punish infinitely for finite sin. Would you punish your child for all eternity for stealing a $10 bill out of your wallet? Would the punishment be proportional to the crime? Would it be just?
Gee..... Thanks!!!
You're welcome. Although this phraseology may sound condescending, it is worth pointing out that it is more than what many Christians will concede to Judaism. To them, we are all going to burn in hell for eternity.
NIV Matthew 21:23-27
23. Jesus entered the temple courts, and, while he was teaching, the chief priests and the elders of the people came to him. "By what authority are you doing these things?" they asked. "And who gave you this authority?"
24. Jesus replied, "I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
25. John's baptism--where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?" They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, `From heaven,' he will ask, `Then why didn't you believe him?'
26. But if we say, `From men'--we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet."
27. So they answered Jesus, "We don't know." Then he said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
The infinity of the crime is not that it is against an infinite being, but rather that our actions continue on indefinitely. Yes, a muerder is a murder, to civil society.
But consider a greater viewpoint. Perhaps the murder prevented the person being killed from some great acheivement. Or the dead's would-be progeny may have acheived something that is now lost to us. Think of the idea of parallel universes. Every choice takes us on a path that diverges from another "possible future."
Once you've put the milk on your coffee, there's no way of getting the milk back out. Things have changed in an irreversible way. A different reality is now in existence.
SD
I could have SWORN it was
If I may, the point angelo is making is that the lineage from David passes down through Joseph. But that Joseph is not, biologically, Jesus' father.
SD
This is contradicted by scripture. The Torah indicates particular punishments for particular violations of the Law.
But, then again, it could just a "religious" protocol that I'm going through, and it shows no remorse whatever. It just shows that I can go through the motions.
If there was no repentance, then there was no atonement.
[sound of body of CubicleGuy hitting the floor as he faints dead away]
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