Replies

Mack ya need to not take a verse out of context...that is the strongest chapter in scripture teaching election...

Rom 9:10   And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac;

Rom 9:11   (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 9:12   It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

Rom 9:13   As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Rom 9:14   What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Rom 9:15   For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Rom 9:16   So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom 9:17   For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

Rom 9:18   Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19   Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20   Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21   Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Rom 9:22   [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Rom 9:23   And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Rom 9:24   Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Rom 9:25   As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

Rom 9:26   And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

Rom 9:27   Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Rom 9:28   For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Rom 9:29   And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

Rom 9:30   What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Rom 9:31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

Rom 9:32   Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 9:33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

The twins neithor being born..neithor having done good or evil...God elected the one HE loved...
He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy...Does that make God unrightoeus Paul asks ..Of couse not ...God is the potter He can doas HE chooses

Mack God selected you before you were born..not because you are bright or educated or white or a biker or because you are holy..He chose you because he chose you...as Ephesians says it was His "good pleasure" fall on your knees in graditude Mack....It was ALL Him

I updated my predestination paper, which now is 16 pages long......lol. Anyway, I included something about how Arminians claim that in Romans 9 it is referring to only OT election. I then gave a direct quote from the verse that states the exact opposite.....that the election is for everyone....:)

I also found an interesting verse in Revelation that calls Christians the "called, chosen, faithful" followers of the Lord. I think I did a good job on updating the paper....adding a lot of stuff dealing with predestination itself instead of dwelling mostly on prevenient grace. This is the link if you want to read it....I won't post it here again I don't think unless folks want me to. http://www.geocities.com/rwfromkansas/Potterpredestination.htm

BTW, I included a great portion of Ezekiel where the bones are on the ground and they come alive at the command of the Lord. I think that is pretty cool and really proves total depravity.

I juat love how Armenians will take this passage and try to tell us what God means by it. These are the same folks that insist that the Bible is God's Word, without fault, inspired, correct, etc. But when it comes to the 9th chapter of Romans, "What God really means is...."