Inculturation at Papal Masses; next, Poland and St. Faustina

National Catholic Reporter ^ | 8/7/2002 | John L. Allen

[ultima ratio]

What am I trying to suggest about the Pope? That he is often mistaken--about a lot of things, and that he is directly responsible for much of the chaos that has overcome the Church in the past two decades.

[ultima ratio]

I don't subscribe to the sedevacantist position--but it is far more plausible than blind pope-worship--especially in the face of the incredible mess the conciliar pontiffs have made.

[Land of the Irish]

Personally, I've longed for the good old days when there were good Catholic monarchs of Catholic countries, i.e, Europe. Those monarchs protected the Faith and their flock. If there were such a country today, I would move my family to it in a minute.

[Land of the Irish]

Name me a US President who's been canonized, let alone beatified. I could name many Catholic monarchs, some who gave their lives for their Faith.

[Land of the Irish]

I know what you mean. Monarchy looks good on paper, but with the current Church hierarchy, we all might be subject to King Mahoney.

That's why I prefaced with good.

[St.Chuck]

As long as we're talking about "mindsets", I wonder if you've also noted the persistent use of pejorative terms for those you disagree with: kooky, bizarre, schismatic, etc? Try using reasoned arguments instead.

Reasoned arguments are futile. You will continue to boast about how you pray for the modernist pope that prays with voodoo priests and witchdoctors. Your eyes can never be diverted from the script. I think that's kooky. What elements of HDMZ's #16 do you not think bizarre? If you don't like the term "schismatic" applied to sedevacantists, SSPXers, Lefebvreites and other traditionalists, perhaps you shouldn't defend them.

[ultima ratio]

It is not the SSPX who have founded a new Church as you suggest, it is those who exalt a minor council that taught no dogmas, and make it a pretext for revolution. In other words, the New Order is pushing a new religion. Why do you suppose it wanted to destroy the SSPX by starving it of bishops, a fraternity of devout men, untainted by either sexual scandals or unorthodoxy, but blessed with many young and virtuous vocations? Let me help you: Rome knew it was the Church's living memory of itself. If it was destroyed, after a single generation Tradition itself would also have been eliminated. Thank God Archbishop Lefebvre saw through their scheme.

[drstevej]

Having followed this thread for a while... What realistic chance does the SSPX have of achieving its goals?

[Land of the Irish]

I believe JFK is both a saint and a martyr according to Amchurch.

I guess Clintoon's the next one, since, to the best of my knowledge, he is the only other President who has received Holy Communion in the Catholic Church.

[drstevej]

***I guess Clintoon's the next one***

Or future President Barney Frank

[ultima ratio]

I think it's far more bizarre that
you defend what's indefensible. Sedevacantists make more sense than those like you who accept what's going on as if it were of no consequence. You do not seem to mind slowly becoming Protestant. Fine. But some Catholics do.

[St.Chuck]

I'm not becoming protestant , are you?

[drstevej]

Oops, pardon my faux pas. Of course he's Jewish. What was I thinking?

Your response makes my blunder worthwhile.

[ultima ratio]

You ask how realistic is it that the SSPX will achieve its goals? That's a difficult question to answer. Its ultimate goal is the restoration of traditional Catholicism. Its proximate goal is to provide a safe haven of Mass and sacraments for those coming in from the storm.

I would say it has a very realistic chance of succeeding. This is because the Novus Ordo is already showing signs of self-destruction. There has been a noticeable failure in faith at the top and a loss of confidence in Catholic leadership among the faithful. Corruption abounds.

The SSPX itself has been fairly judicious regarding the recent scandals. It keeps a low profile and doesn't pick fights. In its relations with Rome it has been respectful but firm in its own convictions. It's significant, I think, that it was Rome who made the first move in opening discussions. The SSPX is confident morally since it knows it is defending tradition--the ole faith. It has two thousand years behind it. Rome is on far shakier ground. It has the Pope and the buildings. The Pope is beloved by the faithful. But he won't be around forever--and then the roof could cave in.