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To: xzins
Its funny you quote from John, one of the most openly pre-destinarian of all New Testament books. You also forgot (perhaps purposely?) to complete the sentence of John 1:12, namely the very next verse:

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

So to follow your thought, 1-recieved 2-believed 3-born (not from your family) (not from human will) rather born of God.

Last time I checked a baby is conceived and born...NOT of its own choice. Am I right on that? And is the Apostle John right on our spiritual birth too?

I would argue St. Paul's more theological approach in various places--including a whole chapter in Romans 9--follows the ordo solutus rather than the half sentence you quote from John.

205 posted on 07/29/2002 3:10:43 PM PDT by AnalogReigns
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To: AnalogReigns; fortheDeclaration
who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Simply says that God does the "reborning," not any man, as in one's birth from one's mother. The same thing is addressed in Chapter 3 betweem Jesus and Nicodemus. Doesn't change the order of salvation of the verse at all. 1. Receive/believe, (2) Born again (by God)

207 posted on 07/29/2002 3:16:51 PM PDT by xzins
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