Why I am a Calvinist

http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/WhyIAmACalvinist.htm ^ | 7/27/02 | C. Matthew McMahon

[Tantumergo]

To Protestants, this has always been held forth as a clear violation of Revelation 22:18, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book."

There is a basic flaw in both Catholic Answers assumptions and your attack on them that I am surprised you wasted so much time in trying to rebut their tract.

As all the books in the bible were not collated into a single book until hundreds of years later, then obviuosly the curse in the Apocalypse relates to anyone who would add or subtract from the Apocalypse. It says nothing at all about anyone adding to or subtracting from the canon of Scripture!!

Unless - that is - you are one of these benighted souls who believe that God dropped the bible complete, proof-texted and bound into the hands of the latter day Jo smith.

[Polycarp]

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND THE BIBLE!

Yeah. Right. Of course, that's not what the eunich says in the Acts, and that's not what Peter says in his letter. You musta missed those parts of the bible.

[Polycarp]

Theresa I do not mean to be hurtful or disrespectful to you

Who you trying to kid, RnMom. That's your signature debate tactic.

Repent and believe, RnMom. Come Home before its too late.

[Polycarp]

Oh Lord, its hard to be humble, when you're still Proud2bRC!

[Polycarp]

Mr. Spock, activate the bible-phasers!

Do you listen to "Adventures in Odessey"?

This line is right out of one of last week's episodes.

[Polycarp]

hate predestination and election because it means

No, we hate it because it is pagan. And it is wrong. And because many use it as an excuse to sin and treat others as...you treat others here.

Heck, the white South Africans used parts of Calvin's predestination theology to justify apartheid!

[RnMomof7]

You need to read that thread, Terry. It describes your debating here to a "t".

poly I try to avoid out right confrontations with Catholics..I will state what I see as biblical truth and then you are free to dispute it

I am tired of the whinning that everything is "Catholic bashing"

Stand up and defend your chosen doctrine or sit down

We share a common creed that make both of us professing Christians..I will debate your doctrine with you on common ground The Bible

But all of you run to tradition..it is rather like talking to the Mormons that run to the Book of Mormon because the Bible is not correct

You started this discussion Poly..I told you I respected you......but you want the right to throw cherry bombs and then duck..You can not hid from God Poly..

[Polycarp]

Geez, and RnMomof7 accuses me of spamming threads...

[Polycarp]

You can not hid from God Poly..

Look in the mirror RnMom. He's calling you home. Stop being so obstinate. Time is too short.

[Rambler]

poly I try to avoid out right confrontations with Catholics..I will state what I see as biblical truth and then you are free to dispute it

Yeah right.

but it is just fine to pray to other gods (saints) instead of to Him..you think it is fine that the blood of Christ has no effect ..and still call your self a follower of Christ..I see the catholics here treat the Pope like HE is GOD and the Church as if IT is God

You'd be better off if you just stuck to biblical truths.

[RnMomof7]

Poly you once told me that if Euchuarist was not true you would become an athesist

That made me pity you Poly. You have a faith built on shifting sands

And that is a hard saying

You constantly misread that scripture and your ENTIRE faith in God rests on it

The Hard saying was really election and predestination

And that is too hard for you..so you will walk away

    Jhn 6:42   And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

They were amazed at the teaching of a ordinary man ..the son of questionable parentage claiming the status of God (Yes they understood He was talking about the manna that fed their ancestors)   

  Jhn 6:43   Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

Now here He teaches election to them..

     Jhn 6:44   No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
     Jhn 6:45   It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
     Jhn 6:46   Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.   
  Jhn 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
     Jhn 6:48   I am that bread of life.

And here He states it again..He is the manna in the desert. He was telling them He was God

They knew the "I am" and they knew the manna was from heaven

And now he told them that NO man can just decide to come..the father sends them

And then He teaches that again

     Jhn 6:61   When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?   
  Jhn 6:62   [What] and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Jhn 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life.
But there are some of you that believe not.

For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

     Jhn 6:65   And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Poly THEN and only then did they walk away..They like you reject the election of the God of creation

     Jhn 6:66   From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

It is of some interest that the verse is 666 the number of man "And ye shall be as gods"

[Polycarp]

Poly you once told me that if Euchuarist was not true you would become an athesist That made me pity you Poly. You have a faith built on shifting sands

And that is a hard saying

I'm really worried about you RnMom. Honestly. Sincerely. You've turned your back on Christ in the Eucharist just as those who left and walked with Him no more.

You think you are walking with Him. You stopped when you left Him.

But He is still awaiting your return.

Time is late. I have my salvation, whether I am right or you are right. However, if I am right you left your salvation when you turned your back on Him in the Eucharist.

You are playing a dangerous gamble. No Christians before 500 years ago believed the false gospel you embraced when you rejected the True Gospel and the True Presence.

Time is short.

You have no excuse before God.

Come home.

[RnMomof7]

You need to read that scripture correctly Poly or I will have to come to the conclusion that Matthew13 was written for you

    Mat 13:12   For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

     Mat 13:13   Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

     Mat 13:14   And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

     Mat 13:15   For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

     Mat 13:16   But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.   

  Mat 13:17   For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous [men] have desired to see [those things] which ye see, and have not seen [them]; and to hear [those things] which ye hear, and have not heard [them].      Mat 13:18   Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

Tha hard saying was the same one Jesus deliverd on the sheep poly..HIS sheep know his voice the others do not

[Polycarp]

Jhn 6:66 From that [time] many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

It is truly remarkable the mental gymnastics you Calvinists go through to explain away the simple sense of scripture found in John 6. You even have the temerity to suggest that John 6 is about predestination/election to the exclusion of the plain sense of John 6, which is that Christ literally gives us His flesh and blood to literally eat in the Eucharist. No Christian ever denied this till the revolt of the reformers---This [your] rejection of the Real Presence is the definition of apostacy, the textbook example.

You are lost, and you know it, but you refuse to admit it.

Time is short. He is waiting. How long will you refuse Him?

[RnMomof7]

It is nice that we have concern for each other.

I do not undrstand how quickly you deny the gift God gave you poly..I am concerned..Not that you chose to be catholic but that you have lost your first love and replaced it with a religious system and man made practices..that does not bode well for you my friend..
 
  2Pe 2:19   While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
  
  2Pe 2:20   For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
  
  2Pe 2:21   For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
  
  2Pe 2:22   But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog [is] turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

[Polycarp]

Not that you chose to be catholic but that you have lost your first love and replaced it with a religious system and man made practices

What a joke. Straw man as usual. I hope you read that thread that describes your debating here.

[AnalogReigns]

When a person becomes a believer, who does the believing? 1. Is it the man who does the believing?

2. Or does God do the believing for the man?

You show you either misunderstand or purposely distort biblical teaching. Of course a man does the believing, freely...but it is only a spiritually ALIVE man who is able to believe.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)...
(Eph. 2:4,5)

God alone creates life.

Or do dead men decide to follow Christ?

Sola scriptura, Sola gracia, Sola fide, Solus Christus, Soli Deo gloria!

[RnMomof7]

Poly I quoted the man you believe held the keys to the kingdom to you

I do not enjoy saying to someone I like that they have turned from Christ.


But I read some of your things and I never hear Christ..
I hear the pride of a man

I hear the pride in your church

I never hear Christ crucified..
The CatholicChurch will not save you..if you put your faith in the church you are lost
Only Jesus saves Poly ..only Jesus

  
  Rev 2:2   I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
  
  Rev 2:3   And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
  
  Rev 2:4   Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
  
  Rev 2:5   Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
  

[drstevej]

Yet another Calvinist arrives to correct you. Where have all the Arminians gone? Those Hobbit threads are calling you.

:-)

[xzins]

They're all on this calvinist thread entitle "Why I am a Calvinist."

Even I am fearful that my name here might identify me with the neighborhood. :-)