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THE WAR IN HEAVEN
RON'S LDS WORLD ^

Posted on 06/19/2002 11:28:01 PM PDT by restornu

The apostle John revealed to us, "There was a war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which decieveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him" (Revelation12:7-9).

Isaiah lamented, "How art thou fallen from heaven, oh Lucifer, son of the morning! how are thou cut down to the ground" (Isaiah 14:12). Joseph Smith wrote concerning this tragic event, "and was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him -- he was Lucifer, a son of the morning" (D&C 76:26).

Most Christian churches believe that a war was fought in heaven between Lucifer and Michael, but they have no idea of who Lucifer was, how he came to have angels of his own, what the war was about, and how it was fought. Through modern revelation we know the answers to these important questions.

Before the earth was created, a grand council was held in heaven where our Father's children were gathered together to hear about a glorious plan to help us progress to eternal life. In that plan our Father explained that we would leave heaven for a short time so that we might have the opportunity to experience choosing between right and wrong. But there was a danger in this. Those who chose to do wrong, even once, would become tainted with sin. Since nothing unclean can dwell in heaven, such people would be unable to return to their Father's home. However, the plan included a way to overcome this problem. Someone who had not committed any sin would have to be willing to pay the penalty for those who did. In that way, when we made mistakes in judgment, we could learn from them, repent of them and still be able to return to our celestial home.

The only question left was: Who would be this savior?

"An angel of God who was in authority in the presence of God" (D&C 76:25) stepped forward and said, "Behold, here am I, send me. I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind" (Moses 4:1) That angel's name was Lucifer. But Lucifer had a problem with our Father's plan. In it, only those who accepted the savior's atonement could recieve eternal life. Everyone else would be unable to return to the celestial glory in which we all then lived. Lucifer had a better idea. He would force everyone to choose the right. In that way no one would become unclean through wrong choices and everyone would then be eligible to receive full salvation. Under such a plan, not one soul would be lost. Of course that also meant that the savior (i.e. Lucifer) wouldn't have to pay the penalty for anyone's sins, since none would have been committed. But Lucifer also offered another modification to the plan. He wanted all the glory and honor, even that which belonged to the Father.

A second angel stepped forward. This angel was the Father's beloved son, Jehovah. He said, "Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).

The difference between these two responses is instructive. Jehovah saw the wisdom in doing things the way His Father had designed the plan. His response was motivated by love, humility and obedience to someone greater than Himself. Lucifer's offer, on the other hand, was motivated by pride. He wanted the glory. He wanted the power. And he didn't want to share those with anyone, including his Father. In his pride he wanted to take the Father's place. Along with that pride came a sense of arrogance; a sense that he knew better than his Father, and was therefore better than Him. As such Lucifer's plan called for him to be a dictator, with us, his brothers and sisters, being his subjects (slaves).

Our Father chose Jehovah to be the savior.

Because of his pride and arrogance, Lucifer became indignant that he was not chosen, and rebelled against our Father. What then ensued was a war, where one third of the hosts of heaven sided with Lucifer, and the other two thirds, lead by Michael, the archangel, sided with our Father. (Although the scriptures do not mention Jehovah's involvement in this battle, we can assume it was considerable.)

But what kind of a war was this? Was it hand-to-hand combat? Did we use bow and arrows, swords and shields? Did we use guns and rockets, tanks and missiles? Did we perhaps use something more sophisticated like laser swords or bolts of lightning? But we know that spirits can't be destroyed, and we further know that Satan (his name being changed from Lucifer) and his angels are still very much alive and active on this planet. So what kind of a war did we fight?

The answer can be found by asking another question. How did Lucifer gather one third of the hosts of heaven to his side? Did he threaten them in some manner? There's no way they would have willing followed him to their destruction if he forced them to join with him. The only way to gather followers is by persuasion. Lucifer used his talents of rhetorical persuasion to convince one third of our brothers and sisters that his plan was better than God's. If you will, the war in heaven was like a political campaign, where each side tries to convince the population to vote for them based on their promises. There is nothing wrong with this kind of debate, except that there was not going to be any votes taken. Our Father was going to make His decision based on wisdom, not popular support. From the beginning, Lucifer's attempt to sway our Father's children to his way of thinking was doomed to failure. But there was no real sin in doing this. The sin came when our Father made His choice. Instead of gracefully accepting defeat, and yeilding obedience to our Father's wishes, Lucifer became furious, and openly rebelled against the very Person who was seeking to offer him the chance for eternal life. That was his sin! It's all right to have a different opinion than God, but it isn't all right to go against God's wishes.

Lucifer violently disagreed with his Father's decision and, through his great persuasive arguments, convinced his followers not to obey their Father. If you will, a line was drawn in the sand separating the two classes of angels. All those who followed God were on one side, and those who opposed God were on the other side. Those who were not on God's side were physically removed from the confines of heaven.

But Lucifer hasn't given up. The war that started in heaven is still raging here on earth.

In any conflict, there has to be an objective, or goal. Our Father's objective is "to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39). Satan's goal is "that all men might be miserable like unto himself" (2 Nephi 2:27). However, just having a goal doesn't mean it will be achieved. As anyone who has ever played chess, or even checkers, knows that to win you need to have a strategy. There has to be some sort of a plan to help you achieve your goal. Our father has a plan for our salvation. Satan also has a plan of how to achieve his objective. But, in any conflict, a wise combatant thinks ahead and plans a counter move to what he thinks his opponent will make. Since his opponent will do the same, then a counter-counter move must be planed.

Our Father made his first move when He created the earth. Satan then made his move on Adam and Even in the garden of Eden. God countered with teaching Adam and Eve about the atonement. Satan countered by tempting mankind to indulge in the pleasures of the flesh. God countered by sending His Son to earth as a sacrifice. Satan countered by tempting Christ into corrupting His mission. Christ successfully blocked that move. Satan then countered by inspiring the Pharisees to have Him killed. Bad move. That only played into God's stategy. So Satan went back to tempting mankind. God counters by offering repentance. Satan counters through persuasion that our sins are beyond forgiveness. And so the conflict goes on.

As we read the Book of Mormon, we see excellent military strategies, some on both sides of the conflict. Even when the Nephites seemed to be in a hopeless situation, a brilliant strategy helped them out-maneuver their enemies and gain the upper hand. In our conflict with Satan, we too need an effective stategy to out-maneuvering him

But this is not a physical contact war. This is war of words. This is a conflict of ideas. This is a struggle for control over the hearts of men. This is a mind game. We are bombarded with persuasive words coming from both sides; one to follow the plan of God, our Father, and the other to follow the plan of Satan. Unfortunately, however, in this contest for our souls, God plays fair; Satan doesn't. Satan uses deceit, trickery, lies, half-truths and any other under-handed tactic he can think of in order to win.

In the very beginning of the battle on earth, he offered Eve that which was forbidden by God. She told him, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (genesis 3:2-4). Satan called God a liar, while it was he who was doing the lying! What audacity! And, Eve herself later admitted she had been beguiled (deceived, tricked) by the devil (Genesis 3:13).

What makes this battle even worse is that Satan changes his strategy from person to person. To some he will lure them with the pleasures of the world, while others he will lure them into a vow of poverty. To some he will tempt with the praises of men, while others he will persuade to shun noteriety. To some he will entice to do wickedness, while others he will entice to act godly. While God is consistent, Satan will whisper whatever he thinks the person wants to hear, carefully leading them off the road to salvation. He even uses such words as "love", "peace", "unity" and other similar terms to mislead some into thinking they are serving God, when, in reality, they are falling prey to God's arch enemy.

Then how do we recognize Satan when he makes his move? Although at times it can be obvious, there are other times when his attempts to lead us astray are very subtle. However, if he is going to persuade us to follow him, then he must convince us in some way to accept his ideas. This is why it's important for us to understand the nature of the war in heaven. The first rule in any contest, is to know your opponent. In the National Football League, one team will play another team once each weekend. But during the rest of the week, each team reviews video tapes of its upcoming opponent's previous games to understand their strategy and how to counter it. In any military conflict, it is of tremendous value for one side to learn as much as it can about the other side's goals, plans and tactics. And so it is in our conflict with Satan.

The thing that motivates Satan is pride - self righteous, arrogant, conceited, egotistical pride. It's the type of pride that seeks for the praise of others and the type that pursues power, with the intent to gain control over people. It's this type of pride that, when things don't go their way, causes such people to become angry, seek revenge, act disobedient and rebel against authority. These are Satan's trademarks. Closely associated with these are the tendencies of fear, doubt, and despair. On the other hand, God's tradmarks are love, service, peace, patience and humility, with its accompaning tendencies of hope, faith, and courage.

Consider the reign of two different kings - Benjamin and Noah. Although Benjamin ruled over his people, he did so without any thought of gaining glory for himself, or of enslaving his people. He ruled in love and in service to others. Noah, on the other hand, was exactly the opposite. He was vain and lazy, living off the hard work of his subjects. Although Benjamin wasn't tolerant of sin, he was a gentle, patient man. Noah was self righteously arrogant in the way he treated others. And when things didn't go his way, as when Abinadi came along, Noah's reaction was one of anger, rebellion and revenge -- just like his father, Satan.

Consider how Satan tempted Jesus in the wilderness. The first two temptations, as recorded in Matthew, begin with, "If ye be the son of God" (Matthew 4:3-9) IF! Satan was taunting Jesus. He was trying to provoke him to pride in order to prove His divine calling. It reminds me of the movie "Return of the Jedi" where the evil Emperor of the Empire taunts Luke Skywalker to give in to his hatred, thereby giving in to the dark side of the force. This is what Satan was trying to do to Jesus. It would have been so easy for Christ to pridefully say, "I'll show you!" But He didn't. When the first two attempts at this failed, Satan then tried to tempt the Savior with the lure of power and glory.

Whenever we see these negative tendencies in others, or in ourselves, we can then be sure that such people have become followers of Satan, knowingly or unwittingly. Sadly, but not surprisingly, we see this type of behavior among those who claim to be followers of God, because Satan has successfully deceived many into thinking they are serving God while performing ungodly deeds. Outwardly this type of religious person may seem to be pious in their appearence and actions, but when something goes against their beliefs, they become a totally different person. For that matter, I'm sure Satan himself is nice enough when things are going his way. But when people disagree with him, or he doesn't get what he wants, then all hell breaks loose in a violent rage.

The Pharisees and Sadducees of Christ's day are an outstanding example of this. They walked about acting pious, but inwardly they craved the praise of men. They wanted people to view them as wise men of understanding, both spiritually and temporally, and, as such, they always sat in the chief seats wherever they went. They acted dignified and holy in public, until Jesus dared to correct their misguided notions and point out their hypocrisy. Then, instead of behaving as men of God should, they became angry, bitter, vile, and viscous, even to the point of murder.

Throughout much of religious history we have seen horrible acts of savagery committed in the name of God. Many of the fiercest attacks on Joseph Smith came from the leaders of the Christian churches of his day. Today, Jews and Arabs kill each other in the Middle East because of religion. Catholics and Protestants kill each other in Ireland. Moslems and Serbs kill each other in Bosnia. In America there are many Christian churches who seem to behave quite piously but who become extremely hostile at the mention of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They don't just doctrinally disagree with us, they openly attack us. Their anti-Mormon literature is filled with lies, half-truths, and misquotes, while all their observations about us are laced with venom. And yet, in their own eyes, they think that God is pleased with such behavior on their part. Satan has very successfully used religion to deceive people into following him.

But what about those who truly seek to do good in their lives yet don't belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? I know many Christians who genuinely show forth the fruits of the Spirit and are totally lacking the works of the flesh (Galatians 5:17, 22). Has Satan also led them away from the true path of salvation? Perhaps to some extent he has, but they haven't become his followers. Instead, "these are they who are honorable men of the earth, who were blinded by the craftiness of men" (D&C 76:71). As such, in the resurrection, they will receive greater glory than many Mormons who didn't live their religion. In such cases Satan hasn't completely succeeded in his goal; he has only achieved a limited, and somewhat hollow victory.

To be tempted by the pleasures of the world is one thing; to become a follower of Satan is quite another. However, one of Satan's successful stategies is to use the normal temptations of life to lead us into his camp. Yet once there, it becomes difficult for people to see their error. They become blinded to the truth and become defenders of that which is evil. That's why God has given us commandments. Following them is our safeguard against Satan's slick, deceptive ways. When we fail to follow them, we tend to give into temptations easier, which plays into the hands of the very person who seeks to destroy us. Paul taught that even Christians aren't exempt from this kind of stategy (I Timothy 5:15).

Joseph Smith wrote, "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion" (D&C 121:39). This happens even to those who hold the priesthood of God. Unfortunately, we see LDS husbands who are dictatorial with their wife and children, local priesthood leaders who are rebellious of church authority, and members who are critical of their faith. This type of behavior is not from God, but, rather, indicates that such a person is following the plan of Satan.

However, we don't have to become egotistical to be a disciple of Satan. Remember, his goal is to make us miserable as he is. Can someone be truly happy when they possess the attributes of fear, despair, hoplessness, self pity, pessimism, and doubt? And can people be miserable when they are filled with hope, faith, optimism, self-confidence, and courage? The answer to both questions is no! Fear and doubt don't come from God, and neither can hope and faith come from Satan. Therefore, whatever produces these tendencies tells us a lot about what source they come from.

Why is it important for us to understand the war in heaven? Without an understanding of who we are, why we are here and where we are going, we can more easily be deceived into following the very person we should flee from. Without an understanding of our adversary, we go into battle unprepared for the fight. Without an understanding of the nature of the conflict, we blindly fall into Satan's trap. Through the prophet Joseph Smith, our Father in heaven has not only restored the true, full gospel of Jesus Christ, but has also revealed vital information to help us successfully return to Him, despite Satan's plan.

Another counter move on God's part.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: freewill; lds; noflaming; nwo; observationwelcome
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I post this for folks who wonder about those fragments on the "War In Heaven". This is an LDS concept which I posted for I thought it has a universal appeal and an interesting scenario, about the Spiritual War here on earth today! No need to flame the LDS, if its not your cup of tea, kindly move on!
1 posted on 06/19/2002 11:28:01 PM PDT by restornu
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To: scottiewottie; White Mountain; Some hope remaining.; Utah Girl; Grig; tracer; Fish out of Water
CTR
2 posted on 06/19/2002 11:31:33 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
Most Christian churches believe that a war was fought in heaven between Lucifer and Michael, but they have no idea of who Lucifer was, how he came to have angels of his own, what the war was about, and how it was fought. Through modern revelation we know the answers to these important questions.
HMmmm.......

This is NEWS to me.



KJV 2 Peter 1:16-21
 16.  For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
 17.  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
 18.  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
 19.  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
 20.  Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
 21.  For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

3 posted on 06/20/2002 6:42:15 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: restornu
Lucifer used his talents of rhetorical persuasion to convince one third of our brothers and sisters

Sorry...... they aren't MY relatives!


King James Version
 
 1 Peter 1:10-12

 10.  Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
 11.  Searching what, or what manner of time the spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
 12.  Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
 

Hebrews 1:1-14

 1.  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
 2.  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
 3.  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
 4.  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
 5.  For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
 6.  And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
 7.  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
 8.  But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
 9.  Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
 10.  And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
 11.  They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
 12.  And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
 13.  But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
 14.  Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
New International Version
 
 1 Peter 1:10-12

 10.  Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,
 11.  trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
 12.  It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
 

Hebrews 1:1-14
 1.  In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
 2.  but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
 3.  The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
 4.  So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
 5.  For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father " ? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son" ?
 6.  And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
 7.  In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire."
 8.  But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
 9.  You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
 10.  He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
 11.  They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.
 12.  You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."
 13.  To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ?
 14.  Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?

4 posted on 06/20/2002 7:05:09 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie

"We are persecuted! We MUST have the right religion!"


5 posted on 06/20/2002 7:08:29 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: restornu
Isaiah lamented, "How art thou fallen from heaven, oh Lucifer, son of the morning! how are thou cut down to the ground" (Isaiah 14:12). Joseph Smith wrote concerning this tragic event, "and was called Perdition, for the heavens wept over him -- he was Lucifer, a son of the morning" (D&C 76:26).

Prove that Lucifer was anything other than the king of Babylon as the scripture says. Seems no particular Christian sect is immune from this fable.

Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.

8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

6 posted on 06/20/2002 7:16:51 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: restornu
Noah was self righteously arrogant in the way he treated others. And when things didn't go his way, as when Abinadi came along, Noah's reaction was one of anger, rebellion and revenge -- just like his father, Satan.

Sorry, but MY Noah is a righteous man!




KJV Genesis 5:29-32
 29.  And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord hath cursed.
 30.  And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
 31.  And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
 32.  And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
 

KJV Genesis 6:1-22
 1.  And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
 2.  That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
 3.  And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
 4.  There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
 5.  And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
 6.  And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
 7.  And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
 8.  But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
 9.  These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
 10.  And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
 11.  The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
 12.  And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
 13.  And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
 14.  Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
 15.  And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
 16.  A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
 17.  And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
 18.  But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
 19.  And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
 20.  Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
 21.  And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
 22.  Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
 

KJV Genesis 7:1-24
 1.  And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
 2.  Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
 3.  Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
 4.  For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
 5.  And Noah did according unto all that the Lord commanded him.
 6.  And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
 7.  And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
 8.  Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
 9.  There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
 10.  And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
 11.  In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
 12.  And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
 13.  In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
 14.  They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
 15.  And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
 16.  And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the Lord shut him in.
 17.  And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
 18.  And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
 19.  And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
 20.  Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
 21.  And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
 22.  All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
 23.  And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
 24.  And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
 

KJV Genesis 8:1-22
1.  And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
 2.  The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
 3.  And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
 4.  And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
 5.  And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
 6.  And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
 7.  And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
 8.  Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
 9.  But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
 10.  And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
 11.  And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
 12.  And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
 13.  And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
 14.  And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
 15.  And God spake unto Noah, saying,
 16.  Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
 17.  Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
 18.  And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
 19.  Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
 20.  And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
 21.  And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
 22.  While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
 

KJV Genesis 9:1-29
1.  And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.
 2.  And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered.
 3.  Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
 4.  But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.
 5.  And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
 6.  Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
 7.  And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; bring forth abundantly in the earth, and multiply therein.
 8.  And God spake unto Noah, and to his sons with him, saying,
 9.  And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;
 10.  And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.
 11.  And I will establish my covenant with you, neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
 12.  And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
 13.  I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
 14.  And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
 15.  And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
 16.  And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
 17.  And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
 18.  And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
 19.  These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.
 20.  And Noah began to be an husbandman, and he planted a vineyard:
 21.  And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent.
 22.  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
 23.  And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
 24.  And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
 25.  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
 26.  And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
 27.  God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
 28.  And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years.
 29.  And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.
 

KJV Isaiah 54:9
 9.  For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
 
KJV Ezekiel 14:13-23
 13.  Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
 14.  Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord God.
 15.  If I cause noisome beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts:
 16.  Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters; they only shall be delivered, but the land shall be desolate.
 17.  Or if I bring a sword upon that land, and say, Sword, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:
 18.  Though these three men were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither sons nor daughters, but they only shall be delivered themselves.
 19.  Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:
 20.  Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord God, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
 21.  For thus saith the Lord God; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?
 22.  Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
 23.  And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord God.
 

KJV Hebrews 11:7
 7.  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
 
KJV 1 Peter 3:20
 20.  Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
 
KJV 2 Peter 2:5
 5.  And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

7 posted on 06/20/2002 7:26:15 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: vmatt
Prove that Lucifer was anything other than the king of Babylon as the scripture says. Seems no particular Christian sect is immune from this fable.
Could it be, that the SAME idea expressed here:
KJV Matthew 16
22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.
23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
is the REASON?
8 posted on 06/20/2002 7:31:13 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie
Could it be, that the SAME idea expressed here: KJV Matthew 16 22. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. is the REASON?

Please provide a scriptural connection between the name Lucifer which I have proven has at least one specific, inspired meaning and the name Satan. Thanks.

9 posted on 06/20/2002 7:38:07 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: vmatt
Please provide a scriptural connection between the name Lucifer Peter which I have proven has at least one specific, inspired meaning and the name Satan. Thanks.
Same deal.........
10 posted on 06/20/2002 8:14:56 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie
Same deal.........

Satan means adversary, Lucifer means brilliant star, agreed?

Easton's Bible Dictionary Lucifer: brilliant star, a title given to the king of Babylon ( Isa 14:12) to denote his glory.

Easton agrees with me be that as it may. Which would you rather be referred to? Allow me to paraphrase to make my point.

Get thee behind me, brilliant star: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Get thee behind me, adversary: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Again, I believe the connection made between the name Lucifer and Satan is an error but am open to proof. I see none forthcoming and you will most likely continue this fable. Only now you can't say you never heard ther truth of the matter so take care.

11 posted on 06/20/2002 9:04:51 AM PDT by vmatt
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To: restornu
This angel was the Father's beloved son, Jehovah

Nope. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father.

Credo in Deum Patrem omnipotentem; Creatorem coeli et terrae. Et in Jesum Christum, Filium ejus unicum, Dominum nostrum; qui conceptus est de Spiritu Sancto, natus ex Maria virgine; passus sub Pontio Pilato, crucifixus, mortuus, et sepultus; descendit ad inferna; tertia die resurrexit a mortuis; ascendit ad coelos; sedet ad dexteram Dei Patris omnipotentis; inde venturus (est) judicare vivos et mortuos. Credo in Spiritum Sanctum; sanctam ecclesiam catholicam; sanctorum communionem; remissionem peccatorum; carnis resurrectionem; vitam oeternam. Amen.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth. And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, light from light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father; through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven, was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became truly human. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

These two creeds summarize the beliefs of the orthodox Christian faith. Faiths that do not profess the beliefs in them -- while doubtlessly full of good, moral, loving people - are not Christian.

Since this topic has been argued ad nauseam elsewhere on FR, I will refrain from further comment here.

If I offended anyone by my words and beliefs here, I apologize for the poorly-chosen words, not the beliefs.

B-chan

12 posted on 06/20/2002 9:58:53 AM PDT by B-Chan
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To: Elsie
Consider the reign of two different kings - Benjamin and Noah. Although Benjamin ruled over his people, he did so without any thought of gaining glory for himself, or of enslaving his people. He ruled in love and in service to others. Noah, on the other hand, was exactly the opposite. He was vain and lazy, living off the hard work of his subjects. Although Benjamin wasn't tolerant of sin, he was a gentle, patient man. Noah was self righteously arrogant in the way he treated others. And when things didn't go his way, as when Abinadi came along, Noah's reaction was one of anger, rebellion and revenge -- just like his father, Satan.

Elsie,-
This is not the Noah of the Bible, it is anohter Noah in the Book of Mormon (He reminded me of Bill Cliton);

THE BOOK OF MOSIAH

CHAPTER 11
King Noah rules in wickedness—He revels in riotous living with his wives and concubines—Abinadi prophesies that the people will be taken into bondage—His life is sought by King Noah. [Between 160 and 150 B.C.]

1 AND now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his stead; and he did not walk in the ways of his father.

2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.

3 And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed, a fifth part of their gold and of their silver, and a fifth part of their ziff, and of their copper, and of their brass and their iron; and a fifth part of their fatlings; and also a fifth part of all their grain.

4 And all this did he take to support himself, and his wives and his concubines; and also his priests, and their wives and their concubines; thus he had changed the affairs of the kingdom.

5 For he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by his father, and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were lifted up in the pride of their hearts.

6 Yea, and thus they were supported in their laziness, and in their idolatry, and in their whoredoms, by the taxes which king Noah had put upon his people; thus did the people labor exceedingly to support iniquity.

7 Yea, and they also became idolatrous, because they were deceived by the vain and flattering words of the king and priests; for they did speak flattering things unto them.

8 And it came to pass that king Noah built many elegant and spacious buildings; and he ornamented them with fine work of wood, and of all manner of precious things, of gold, and of silver, and of iron, and of brass, and of ziff, and of copper;

9 And he also built him a spacious palace, and a throne in the midst thereof, all of which was of fine wood and was ornamented with gold and silver and with precious things.

10 And he also caused that his workmen should work all manner of fine work within the walls of the temple, of fine wood, and of copper, and of brass.

11 And the seats which were set apart for the high priests, which were above all the other seats, he did ornament with pure gold; and he caused a breastwork to be built before them, that they might rest their bodies and their arms upon while they should speak lying and vain words to his people.

12 And it came to pass that he built a tower near the temple; yea, a very high tower, even so high that he could stand upon the top thereof and overlook the land of bShilom•, and also the land of Shemlon, which was possessed by the Lamanites; and he could even look over all the land round about.

13 And it came to pass that he caused many buildings to be built in the land Shilom; and he caused a great tower to be built on the hill north of the land Shilom, which had been a resort for the children of Nephi at the time they fled out of the land; and thus he did do with the riches which he obtained by the taxation of his people.

14 And it came to pass that he placed his heart upon his riches, and he spent his time in riotous living with his wives and his concubines; and so did also his priests spend their time with harlots.

15 And it came to pass that he planted vineyards round about in the land; and he built wine-presses, and made awine in abundance; and therefore he became a wine-bibber, and also his people.

16 And it came to pass that the Lamanites began to come in upon his people, upon small numbers, and to slay them in their fields, and while they were tending their flocks.

17 And king Noah sent guards round about the land to keep them off; but he did not send a sufficient number, and the Lamanites came upon them and killed them, and drove many of their flocks out of the land; thus the Lamanites began to destroy them, and to exercise their hatred upon them.

18 And it came to pass that king Noah sent his armies against them, and they were driven back, or they drove them back for a time; therefore, they returned rejoicing in their spoil.

19 And now, because of this great victory they were lifted up in the pride of their hearts; they did boast in their own strength, saying that their fifty could stand against thousands of the Lamanites; and thus they did boast, and did delight in blood, and the shedding of the blood of their brethren, and this because of the wickedness of their king and priests.

20 And it came to pass that there was a man among them whose name was Abinadi; *and he went forth among them, and began to prophesy, saying: Behold, thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me, saying, Go forth, and say unto this people, thus saith the Lord—Wo be unto this people, for I have seen their abominations, and their wickedness, and their whoredoms; and except they repent I will visit them in mine anger.

21 And except they repent and turn to the Lord their God, behold, I will deliver them into the hands of their enemies; yea, and they shall be brought into bondage; and they shall be afflicted by the hand of their enemies.

22 And it shall come to pass that they shall know that I am the Lord their God, and am a jealous God, visiting the iniquities of my people.

23 And it shall come to pass that except this people repent and turn unto the Lord their God, they shall be brought into bondage; and none shall deliver them, except it be the Lord the Almighty God.

24 Yea, and it shall come to pass that when they shall cry unto me I will be slow to hear their cries; yea, and I will suffer them that they be smitten by their enemies.

25 And except they repent in sackcloth and ashes, and cry mightily to the Lord their God, I will not hear their prayers, neither will I deliver them out of their afflictions; and thus saith the Lord, and thus hath he commanded me.

26 Now it came to pass that when Abinadi had spoken these words unto them they were wroth with him, and sought to take away his life; but the Lord adelivered him out of their hands.

27 Now when king Noah had heard of the words which Abinadi had spoken unto the people, he was also wroth; and he said: Who is Abinadi, that I and my people should be judged of him, or who• is the Lord, that shall bring upon my people such great affliction?

28 I command you to bring Abinadi hither, that I may slay him, for he has said these things that he might astir up my people to anger one with another, and to raise contentions among my people; therefore I will slay him.(King Noah wanted to slay the prophet of the Lord

29 Now the eyes of the people were blinded; therefore they hardened their hearts against the words of Abinadi, and they sought from that time forward to take him. And king Noah hardened his heart against the word of the Lord, and he did not repent of his evil doings.

* Verse 20 [About 150 B.C.].

http://scriptures.lds.org/inn/noah3

13 posted on 06/20/2002 10:33:04 AM PDT by restornu
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To: Elsie; vmatt; winstonchurchill; B-Chan
Most Christian churches believe that a war was fought in heaven between Lucifer and Michael, but they have no idea of who Lucifer was, how he came to have angels of his own, what the war was about, and how it was fought. Through modern revelation we know the answers to these important questions.

well Elsie, I always thought that too, but there are some who question that since Lucifer was only mention a few times that he is not the same. I wish not to content here, but to discussed, you dear folks Elsie, vmatt are always so quick bit my head off instead of trying to ponder what is being said and there are those who don't agree with me or you!

Gee wiz! every time you visit you want to beat me up! calm down!

THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ARTICLE IS THAT THE WAR CONTINUES TODAY BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL- BETWEEN OUR SAVIOR JESUS/JEHOVAH AND LUCIFER/SATAN- there are many on this planet that don't agree nor even think its a spiritual war!

I was clear in my post it was an LDS view, but an interesting scenario that's all, I welcoming your view point,instead of staying focus, your contempt for the LDS was another time to kick something you know little of!

well! I am use to it, there are some here on this freeper forum who do not agree with the LDS, yet they are polite and don't feel threaten in their faith, that why they can disagree and keep the Lord's Commandments- LOVE ONE ANOTHER!

****

Matt. 5: 44
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

I AM NOT YOUR ENEMIE, FOR I AM NOT THE PERSECUTING HERE!

John 3
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

14 posted on 06/20/2002 11:26:18 AM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
I'm sorry if you feel like you are attacked all the time, it's just that you are in the minority and by mere math you will be getting much more than you give.
This statement was made: Most Christian churches believe that a war was fought in heaven between Lucifer and Michael, but they have no idea of who Lucifer was, how he came to have angels of his own, what the war was about, and how it was fought. - without ANY backup whatsoever. So I've tried to give some explanation. Obviously I've not done a good job.

Try this, then...........

 
King James Version
 
Isaiah 14:3-15

3.  And it shall come to pass in the day that the Lord shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
 4.  That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
 5.  The Lord hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
 6.  He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
 7.  The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
 8.  Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
 9.  Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
 10.  All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
 11.  Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
 12.  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
 13.  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
 14.  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
 15.  Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
 

 
New International Version
 
 Isaiah 14:3-15

 3.  On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage,
 4.  you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: How the oppressor has come to an end! How his fury  has ended!
 5.  The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked, the scepter of the rulers,
 6.  which in anger struck down peoples with unceasing blows, and in fury subdued nations with relentless aggression.
 7.  All the lands are at rest and at peace; they break into singing.
 8.  Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon exult over you and say, "Now that you have been laid low, no woodsman comes to cut us down."
 9.  The grave  below is all astir to meet you at your coming; it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you-- all those who were leaders in the world; it makes them rise from their thrones-- all those who were kings over the nations.
 10.  They will all respond, they will say to you, "You also have become weak, as we are; you have become like us."
 11.  All your pomp has been brought down to the grave, along with the noise of your harps; maggots are spread out beneath you and worms cover you.
 12.  How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
 13.  You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
 14.  I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." 
 15.  But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.
 
Now..... is this a mere man, this King of Babylon?
 
Has he the ability to rise to the clouds and be like GOD?
 
I think not.
 
 Matthew 5:34-35
 34.  But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne;
 35.  or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
 
(Who is THIS Great King? David? Solomon? Agrippa?)

15 posted on 06/20/2002 2:20:59 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: restornu
You know, I had a gut feeling that this wasn't right when I posted it. Thanks for clipping out the text for me.
(One question: What is ZIFF?)
16 posted on 06/20/2002 2:24:40 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie
That part had me scratching my head as well. Where that came from, I don't know. Would have been nice to see a source for that bit.
17 posted on 06/20/2002 2:32:45 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: restornu
One would think, after seeing THESE verses:

THE BOOK OF MOSIAH

CHAPTER 11:2
For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord.

- that the whole polygamy thing would have NEVER have gotten started!

18 posted on 06/20/2002 2:44:40 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: restornu

Joseph Smith wrote, "We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion" (D&C 121:39). This happens even to those who hold the priesthood of God. Unfortunately, we see LDS husbands who are dictatorial with their wife and children, local priesthood leaders who are rebellious of church authority, and members who are critical of their faith. This type of behavior is not from God, but, rather, indicates that such a person is following the plan of Satan.
.
.
.
. Why is it important for us to understand the war in heaven? Without an understanding of who we are, why we are here and where we are going, we can more easily be deceived into following the very person we should flee from. Without an understanding of our adversary, we go into battle unprepared for the fight. Without an understanding of the nature of the conflict, we blindly fall into Satan's trap. Through the prophet Joseph Smith, our Father in heaven has not only restored the true, full gospel of Jesus Christ, but has also revealed vital information to help us successfully return to Him, despite Satan's plan.

(I guess the revealing didn't help THESE guys much!)


19 posted on 06/20/2002 2:51:05 PM PDT by Elsie
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To: vmatt
Only now you can't say you never heard the(r?) truth of the matter so take care.
Now I can say I've heard your version of the matter.
20 posted on 06/20/2002 2:53:19 PM PDT by Elsie
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