Navy Officer From Iowa Barred From Entering Mormon Temple

Des Moines Register ^ | 6/19/02 | Vess Mitev

[marshmallow]

A Navy officer from Denmark, Ia., was barred from a Mormon temple in Nauvoo, Ill., on Monday because of his behavior during a previous visit.

Rocky Hulse first toured the new temple of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on May 21. At the end of the tour, he said, he asked a temple official where the cross was located in the church.

[Illbay]

Can a long-time Catholic enter the inner sanctum of the SLC Temple?

Of course. My wife was a long-time Catholic (her maiden name was McNamara; guess how long her roots were in the RC church?) She has been through the temple many, many times.

If you viewed traditional Christianity as sufficient, you wouldn't be trying to "convert" us "gentiles" at all.

Actually, you nailed it. If "traditional Christianity" were sufficient, there wouldn't have been any need for a Restoration, now would there?

So obviously, we believe it is NOT sufficient to fulfill the divine plan that God has for each of His children.

Realizing this, many of us convert from our old, incomplete faiths and doctrines, and embrace the fullness of Christ's gospel.

[Illbay]

Since you brought it up, please let me know what your problems are with conventional Christianity.

I'm sorry, I guess I came off as abrasive, and I didn't mean to be. I guess I'm just a trifle sensitive about this particular topic.

The ONLY problem I have with contemporary Christianity, is that I don't believe it contains the fulness of the truth of Christ's gospel. Therefore, I'm a "Mormon," because there I fully believe the truth DOES lie.

Otherwise, I assure you I have NO problem with what I call the Christian sects. In fact, I assure you that nearly all "Mormons" of my acquaintance harbor no ill-will toward their sectarian brethren at all. But it can't be glossed over, this fact of doctrinal differences. We are taught always to respect the beliefs of others, but that we need never yield our own beliefs in the process.

Again, I apologize if I gave offense. None was intended.

[inkling]

Let me rephrase. Can a long-time Catholic or Baptist, etc., that is a non-Mormon enter the inner sanctum of the SLC Temple?

[Illbay]

RnMomof7, I'm sorry to have been abrasive in the past. But you must admit, you definitely open yourself up for it with your continual caustic comments.

I'm not excusing my own fits of temper, but I must point out that you're hardly a babe in the woods where these religious wars are concerned.

[inkling]

I'm sorry, I guess I came off as abrasive, and I didn't mean to be.

Thanks for the clarification. God bless!

[Illbay]

Actually, I consider that I'm trying to accomodate those who INSIST that we not call ourselves Christians. I'm telling you that the term is scarcely heard among ourselves. That's simply the truth.

We call ourselves "Saints," and there is plenty of scriptural basis for our doing so.

You may call us "Christian" or not, as you will; it does NOTHING to alter who we are, or our relationship with Jesus Christ as His Church. In the end, such arguments are as relevant as those among the philosophers of the middle ages who disputed the number of angels who could dance on the head of a pin.

[Illbay]

I hate to split hairs, but please tell me what you mean by "inner sanctum"? And please understand the question is prompted by the fact that we do not use that term with regard ot our temples.

[fogarty]

For the Christian it's not an organization but a Person who represents the gospel, and that Person is God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ. It is the life, death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ that embodies the gospel for the true Christian. Jesus is man's savior. The Bible tells us that JESUS is the only way to God the Father. (John 14:6)

By contrast, Brigham Young says: "No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial Kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph. . . ." "He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling as God does in heaven." So for the Mormon, Joseph Smith has become the savior.
(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, 289. See also, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, 198-90. )

Volume One of Doctrines of Salvation says this about Joseph Smith: "No salvation without accepting Joseph Smith. If Joseph Smith was verily a prophet, and if he told the truth...then this knowledge is of the most vital importance to the entire world. No man can reject that testimony without incurring the most dreadful consequences, for he cannot enter the Kingdom of God."

The Mormon church also teaches that all men will receive some degree of salvation and that there is no place known as hell. By incorporating this doctrine, they have attempted to undercut the explicit teachings of the Bible. Furthermore, the church teaches that it ALONE is the only hope for salvation. Bruce McConkie, the Mormon scholar, says this regarding salvation: "If it had not been for Joseph Smith and the restoration, there would be no salvation. There is no salvation outside of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

So it appears very much to me that the Mormon church does not take biblically-based doctrine alone - they add to it, and therefore they do not subscribe to the truth given in John 14:6. But, given the Mormon belief in 'special revelation' by its elected prophets and apostles, Mormon doctrine can change through the years - so it is no suprise that new beliefs and requirements have been added as others have been removed.

[Utah Girl]

I would no more run into someone's church or temple and tell them that their faith/precepts are wrong than fly to the moon. As the 11th Article of Faith says:

* We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

[Grig]

"According to the material I've seen, the Mormons don't even realize the positions of their church fathers."

Then the material you've seen is either wrong, or you have not understood it. The average faithfull Mormons is much better informed about the doctrine and the history of their faith than the average non-Mormon christian is in my experience. It is very rare that you find a non-Mormon christian who writes about Mormonism accuratly, so belive something just because you see it in print.

"The official teaching of the church is that Jesus and Lucifer are/were spirit brothers, equal in stature,"

Wrong. Official doctrine that God the Father is the father of ALL spirits, Christ's, Lucifer's, your's and mine. Lucifer rebelled against God, was expelled and became Satan, but he was NEVER equal with Christ.

[RnMomof7]

Forgiven...forgotten....(till we get on each others nerves again:>)

[Illbay]

For the Christian it's not an organization but a Person who represents the gospel, and that Person is God's only begotten son, Jesus Christ.

Okay, so pick one: "Christ was (kidding|wasting His time|having an off day) when He organized His Church, with 'apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers' [See Ephesians 4:11]."

Obviously, we believe, with good reason, that the organization of the Church is important.

FWIW, I think it's kind of silly to try and make this argument, given the number of organized churches in the world.

The head of our Church is Jesus Christ, btw, in case you've somehow been misinformed. It was He who, with His Father, appeared to Joseph Smith originally, to tell him that the Gospel was to be reestablished on the earth, that had been lost ages before. Christ established the Church; it was not the work of a man.

[Illbay]

LOL!

[Elsie]

Neither of the ideas expressed here - Someone did say they will become a god when they die, but that seemed like they meant to say Angel. - are correct.

(In orthodox Christianity, anyway........)

[RnMomof7]

Then the material you've seen is either wrong, or you have not understood it. The average faithfull Mormons is much better informed about the doctrine and the history of their faith than the average non-Mormon christian is in my experience. It is very rare that you find a non-Mormon christian who writes about Mormonism accuratly, so belive something just because you see it in print.

Actually I have spent some time on LDS forums as of late..nice folks ,but no two people seem to agree on much doctrine..they all agree they want to "progress " and be gods..but beyond that the doctrine is all over the place...

[RnMomof7]

No they meant gods..angels are unembodied spirits ..pre or post human existance..once a LDS has gone throught the progression and died..he then awaits his glorified body..at that point he may be a god..

(I have been reading:>)

[B-Chan]

PS To posters above, I would say that the very same people who deny that Mormons are Christians, also deny that Roman Catholics are Christians. What sillies, the Bible says that any church that says Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, and will affirm that, is of God ...and therefore IMO Christian!!!

Nope. True Christians, Catholic, Eastern, and Protestant, all share certain common beliefs. These beliefs are succinctly expressed in statements called creeds. Universally accepted among true Christians, the Apostles' Creed is a litmus test for true Christianity:

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic* Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. AMEN.

That's it. That is what one has to believe (and teach) to be a Christian.

There are many fine, loving, moral people among the members of the LDS; nevertheless, because the LDS church does not teach the doctrines of the Creed, the LDS lies outside the orthodox Christian faith.

That being said: It is not up to us to judge the eternal fate of another person. I'm positive that many people who are not baptized members of the true Roman Catholic Church are, nevertheless, members of the Church in some mystical way and are going to be in Heaven. How they get there is between them and God. Like St. Francis of Asissi, all I can do is keep weeding my own garden.

If my statements in this post offended anyone, I apologize for the offense.

B-chan

[Some hope remaining.]

And if Christian churches closed their doors to sinners.......

Shocking, isn't it? Similarly, imagine if only certain priests could enter the inner part of the temples in ancient times. Oh, wait,...

[B-Chan]

* Eastern and Protestant Christians take this to mean "universal", not "Roman Catholic".

[Jeff Head]

Hello my friend ... see my post number 80.

It's always best, as you say, to weed our own gardens and allow the true Master of the Vinyard to worry about the rest as we seek to do His will.