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LDS SCRIPTURES TESTIFIES OF FREE AGENCY
BIBLE, BOOK OF MORMON | HOLY SCRIPTURES

Posted on 05/27/2002 9:55:07 PM PDT by restornu

The Serpent (Lucifer) deceives Eve—She and then Adam partake of the forbidden fruit—Her Seed (Christ) shall bruise the Serpent’s head—Role of woman, and of man—Adam and Eve cast out of the Garden of Eden—Adam presides—Eve becomes the mother of all living.

Gen.3
20 And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Redemption cometh through the Holy Messiah—Freedom of choice (agency) is essential to existence and progression—Adam fell that men might be—Men are free to choose liberty and eternal life. [Between 588 and 570 B.C.]

2 Nephi2.
18 And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind. Wherefore, he said unto Eve, yea, even that old serpent, who is the devil, who is the father of all lies, wherefore he said: Partake of the forbidden fruit, and ye shall not die, but ye shall be as God, knowing good and evil.

19 And after Adam and Eve had partaken of the forbidden fruit they were driven out of the garden of Eden, to till the earth.

20 And they have brought forth children; yea, even the family of all the earth.

21 And the days of the children of men were prolonged, according to the will of God, that they might repent while in the flesh; wherefore, their state became a state of probation, and their time was lengthened, according to the commandments which the Lord God gave unto the children of men. For he gave commandment that all men must repent; for he showed unto all men that they were lost, because of the transgression of their parents.

22 And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they were after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end.

23 And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin.

24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

26 And the Messiah cometh in the fulness of time, that he may redeem the children of men from the fall. And because that they are redeemed from the fall they have become free forever, knowing good from evil; to act for themselves and not to be acted upon, save it be by the punishment of the law at the great and last day, according to the commandments which God hath given.

27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself.

28 And now, my sons, I would that ye should look to the great Mediator, and hearken unto his great commandments; and be faithful unto his words, and choose eternal life, according to the will of his Holy Spirit;

29 And not choose eternal death, according to the will of the flesh and the evil which is therein, which giveth the spirit of the devil power to captivate, to bring you down to hell, that he may reign over you in his own kingdom.

30 I have spoken these few words unto you all, my sons, in the last days of my probation; and I have chosen the good part, according to the words of the prophet. And I have none other object save it be the everlasting welfare of your souls. Amen.

Alma contends with Zeezrom—The mysteries of God can be given only to the faithful—Men are judged by their thoughts, beliefs, words, and works—The wicked shall suffer a spiritual death—This mortal life is a probationary state—The plan of redemption brings to pass the resurrection and, through faith, a remission of sins—The repentant have a claim on mercy through the Only Begotten Son. [About 82 B.C.]

Alma 12

21 What does the scripture mean, which saith that God placed cherubim and a flaming sword on the east of the garden of Eden, lest our first parents should enter and partake of the fruit of the tree of life, and live forever? And thus we see that there was no possible chance that they should live forever.

22 Now Alma said unto him: This is the thing which I was about to explain. Now we see that Adam did fall by the partaking of the forbidden fruit, according to the word of God; and thus we see, that by his fall, all mankind became a lost and fallen people.

23 And now behold, I say unto you that if it had been possible for Adam to have partaken of the fruit of the tree of life at that time, there would have been no death, and the word would have been void, making God a liar, for he said: If thou eat thou shalt surely die.

24 And we see that death comes upon mankind, yea, the death which has been spoken of by Amulek, which is the temporal death; nevertheless there was a space granted unto man in which he might repent; therefore this life became a probationary state; a time to prepare to meet God; a time to prepare for that endless state which has been spoken of by us, which is after the resurrection of the dead.

25 Now, if it had not been for the plan of redemption, which was laid from the foundation of the world, there could have been no resurrection of the dead; but there was a plan of redemption laid, which shall bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, of which has been spoken.

26 And now behold, if it were possible that our first parents could have gone forth and partaken of the tree of life they would have been forever miserable, having no preparatory state; and thus the plan of redemption would have been frustrated, and the word of God would have been void, taking none effect.

27 But behold, it was not so; but it was appointed unto men that they must die; and after death, they must come to judgment, even that same judgment of which we have spoken, which is the end.

28 And after God had appointed that these things should come unto man, behold, then he saw that it was expedient that man should know concerning the things whereof he had appointed unto them;

29 Therefore he sent angels to converse with them, who caused men to behold of his glory.

30 And they began from that time forth to call on his name; therefore God conversed with men, and made known unto them the plan of redemption, which had been prepared from the foundation of the world; and this he made known unto them according to their faith and repentance and their holy works.

31 Wherefore, he gave commandments unto men, they having first transgressed the first commandments as to things which were temporal, and becoming as Gods, knowing good from evil, placing themselves in a state to act, or being placed in a state to act according to their wills and pleasures, whether to do evil or to do good—

32 Therefore God gave unto them commandments, after having made known unto them the plan of redemption, that they should not do evil, the penalty thereof being a second death, which was an everlasting death as to things pertaining unto righteousness; for on such the plan of redemption could have no power, for the works of justice could not be destroyed, according to the supreme goodness of God.

33 But God did call on men, in the name of his Son, (this being the plan of redemption which was laid) saying: If ye will repent and harden not your hearts, then will I have mercy upon you, through mine Only Begotten Son;

34 Therefore, whosoever repenteth, and hardeneth not his heart, he shall have claim on mercy through mine Only Begotten Son, unto a remission of his sins; and these shall enter into my rest.

35 And whosoever will harden his heart and will do iniquity, behold, I swear in my wrath that he shall not enter into my rest.

36 And now, my brethren, behold I say unto you, that if ye will harden your hearts ye shall not enter into the rest of the Lord; therefore your iniquity provoketh him that he sendeth down his wrath upon you as in the first provocation, yea, according to his word in the last provocation as well as the first, to the everlasting destruction of your souls; therefore, according to his word, unto the last death, as well as the first.

37 And now, my brethren, seeing we know these things, and they are true, let us repent, and harden not our hearts, that we provoke not the Lord our God to pull down his wrath upon us in these his second commandments which he has given unto us; but let us enter into the rest of God, which is prepared according to his word.

Mortality is a probationary time to enable man to repent and serve God—The fall brought temporal and spiritual death upon all mankind—Redemption comes through repentance—God himself atoneth for the sins of the world—Mercy is for those who repent—All others are subject to God’s justice—Mercy cometh because of the atonement—Only the truly penitent are saved. [About 73 B.C.]

Alma 42

1 AND now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand—which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the sinner; for ye do try to suppose that it is injustice that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.

2 Now behold, my son, I will explain this thing unto thee. For behold, after the Lord God sent our first parents forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground, from whence they were taken—yea, he drew out the man, and he placed at the east end of the garden of Eden, cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the tree of life—

3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit—

4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God.

5 For behold, if Adam had put forth his hand immediately, and partaken of the tree of life, he would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated.

6 But behold, it was appointed unto man to die—therefore, as they were cut off from the tree of life they should be cut off from the face of the earth—and man became lost forever, yea, they became fallen man.

7 And now, ye see by this that our first parents were cut off both temporally and spiritually from the presence of the Lord; and thus we see they became subjects to follow after their own will.

8 Now behold, it was not expedient that man should be reclaimed from this temporal death, for that would destroy the great plan of happiness.

9 Therefore, as the soul could never die, and the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord, it was expedient that mankind should be reclaimed from this spiritual death.

10 Therefore, as they had become carnal, sensual, and devilish, by nature, this probationary state became a state for them to prepare; it became a preparatory state.

11 And now remember, my son, if it were not for the plan of redemption, (laying it aside) as soon as they were dead their souls were miserable, being cut off from the presence of the Lord.

12 And now, there was no means to reclaim men from this fallen state, which man had brought upon himself because of his own disobedience;

13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.

14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.

15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.16 Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be, affixed opposite to the plan of happiness, which was as eternal also as the life of the soul.

17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? How could there be a law save there was a punishment?

18 Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man.

19 Now, if there was no law given—if a man murdered he should die—would he be afraid he would die if he should murder? 20 And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin.

21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature?

22 But there is a law given, and a punishment affixed, and a repentance granted; which repentance, mercy claimeth; otherwise, justice claimeth the creature and executeth the law, and the law inflicteth the punishment; if not so, the works of justice would be destroyed, and God would cease to be God.

23 But God ceaseth not to be God, and mercy claimeth the penitent, and mercy cometh because of the atonement; and the atonement bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead; and the resurrection of the dead bringeth back men into the presence of God; and thus they are restored into his presence, to be judged according to their works, according to the law and justice.

24 For behold, justice exerciseth all his demands, and also mercy claimeth all which is her own; and thus, none but the truly penitent are saved.

25 What, do ye suppose that mercy can rob justice? I say unto you, Nay; not one whit. If so, God would cease to be God.

26 And thus God bringeth about his great and eternal purposes, which were prepared from the foundation of the world. And thus cometh about the salvation and the redemption of men, and also their destruction and misery.

27 Therefore, O my son, whosoever will come may come and partake of the waters of life freely; and whosoever will not come the same is not compelled to come; but in the last day it shall be restored unto him according to his deeds.

28 If he has desired to do evil, and has not repented in his days, behold, evil shall be done unto him, according to the restoration of God.

29 And now, my son, I desire that ye should let these things trouble you no more, and only let your sins trouble you, with that trouble which shall bring you down unto repentance.

30 O my son, I desire that ye should deny the justice of God no more. Do not endeavor to excuse yourself in the least point because of your sins, by denying the justice of God; but do you let the justice of God, and his mercy, and his long-suffering have full sway in your heart; and let it bring you down to the dust in humility.

31 And now, O my son, ye are called of God to preach the word unto this people. And now, my son, go thy way, declare the word with truth and soberness, that thou mayest bring souls unto repentance, that the great plan of mercy may have claim upon them. And may God grant unto you even according to my words. Amen.


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: adameve; charity; fairjust; freewill; godpromise; ldsbelieve; manfalls; noflaming; repents; saviorredeem
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To: RnMomof7
That was when are you returning?
81 posted on 05/29/2002 4:40:54 PM PDT by restornu
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To: Gophack
Thanks for your nice comments. regards. =)
82 posted on 05/29/2002 5:01:50 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: restornu
I have to check word check:)

Rest I always have to check word check ...and I am still wrong ALOT :>)

83 posted on 05/29/2002 5:52:53 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: scottiewottie;Gophack
The Holy Ghost does have a corporal body of material that we would call a personage of spirit, slightly different than that of of The Father and Son.

I just was told by a LDS friend that the Holy Spirit is an unembodied spirit child of the fathers..like Jesus. And that at some point He may choose to come to earth in a body and marry ..so he can progress..was that wrong?

84 posted on 05/29/2002 5:56:00 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: restornu
That was when are you returning?

rest that was Sooooooo funny to me I thought it was wishful thinking that I might not come back:>)))We will be gone 10 days or so. I hope to have access to a laptop in my travels. I want to follow the Van Dam trial..and of course I want to visit all of you:>) Basically I will be gone from the 9th to the 18-19 depending

My puter is going in for a bit of new memory ,and an updated OS......

85 posted on 05/29/2002 6:00:36 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7
I just upgraded to XP. Much better than Me. No more silly freeze-ups for no reason.

And if I could get away, I'd be done there. I need to work on my sunburn.

86 posted on 05/29/2002 6:17:11 PM PDT by Wrigley
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To: scottiewottie
Well, we agree on the last point, that we worship God, through His Son Jesus Christ, with the power of the Holy Spirit. However, we disagree on the physical presence of God. God, to most Christians, is pure spirit. That God came, through the birth of His Son Jesus Christ, to save mankind and offer salvation and eternal life. But I don't believe that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three SEPARATE persons, but in fact only the Son had a human body and He is one and the same as God and the Holy Spirit.

Part of the Nicene Creed, which we say during Mass every Sunday, is:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made. ...

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.

To me, this clearly states that Jesus is at one with the Father, and that the Holy Spirit proceeds ... comes from ... the Father and the Son who are one together. Anyway, I don't want to get into an argument about the Holy Trinity, but I wanted to share my view.

While Mormons and Christians disagree on some matters, and I know that on some there are serious disagreements, I have to say that the Mormons I have met ... and I have several good friends who are also Mormon ... are conservative, moral people who try to live wholesome and God-fearing lives.

God bless.

87 posted on 05/29/2002 6:30:11 PM PDT by Gophack
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To: Wrigley
I have a Mac 8.6 I heard OS X (Linix base) is awesome..but my cable ISP can not handle a Linix system... so I am going up to a OS 9

My son in Texas has windows XP I used it down there..it was very quick on their dial up service...I liked it alot..But I LOVE my Mac:>)

88 posted on 05/29/2002 7:48:03 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: White Mountain;cubicle guy; grig;rnmomof7
I saw this posted on another site. Do you agree?

=====

The keys refer to the sealing authority. These keys were given to Christ on the mount of transfiguration by Elijah. Presumably, they were bestowed upon Peter by the Lord. 4 Ne. 1 speaks of "marriage and given in marriage," and it is reasonable that the full gospel, including this power, was given to the Nephite disciples. We don't know who was the senior Nephite apostle, presumably, Nephi, since he is listed first.

Did Peter pass on the sealing keys after his death? We have no record. The Nephite church continued for several generations before going into apostasy. So, who was the last Nephite prophet to hold these keys? I don't know.

89 posted on 05/29/2002 8:17:13 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej;White Mountain;cubicle guy; grig;rnmomof7
THERE IS NO NEPHI CHURCH NOR MORMON CHURCH! ONLY THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST!!:)

******************************************************************************************

4 Ne. 1 speaks of "marriage and given in marriage," and it is reasonable that the full gospel, including this power, was given to the Nephite disciples. We don't know who was the senior Nephite apostle, presumably, Nephi, since he is listed first. I don't see this in the 4 Nephi-drstevej(there is only one chapter to this book)

FOURTH NEPHI THE BOOK OF NEPHI

WHO IS THE SON OF NEPHI, ONE OF THE DISCIPLES OF JESUS CHRIST

An account of the people of Nephi, according to his record.

CHAPTER 1
The Nephites and the Lamanites are all converted to the Church of Christ—They have all things in common, work miracles, and prosper in the land—After two centuries divisions, evils, false churches, and persecutions arise—After three hundred years both the Nephites and the Lamanites are wicked—Ammaron hides up the sacred records. [Between A.D. 36 and 321]

1 AND it came to pass that the thirty and fourth year passed away, and also the thirty and fifth, and behold the disciples of Jesus had formed a church of Christ in all the lands round about. And as many as did come unto them, and did truly repent of their sins, were baptized in the name of Jesus; and they did also receive the Holy Ghost.

2 And it came to pass in the thirty and sixth year, the people were all converted unto the Lord, upon all the face of the land, both Nephites and Lamanites, and there were no contentions and disputations among them, and every man did deal justly one with another.

3 And they had all things common among them; therefore there were not rich and poor, bond and free, but they were all made free, and partakers of the heavenly gift.

4 And it came to pass that the thirty and seventh year passed away also, and there still continued to be peace in the land.

5 And there were great and marvelous works wrought by the disciples of Jesus, insomuch that they did heal the sick, and raise the dead, and cause the lame to walk, and the blind to receive their sight, and the deaf to hear; and all manner of miracles did they work among the children of men; and in nothing did they work miracles save it were in the name of Jesus.

6 And thus did the thirty and eighth year pass away, and also the thirty and ninth, and forty and first, and the forty and second, yea, even until forty and nine years had passed away, and also the fifty and first, and the fifty and second; yea, and even until fifty and nine years had passed away.

7 And the Lord did prosper them exceedingly in the land; yea, insomuch that they did build cities again where there had been cities burned.

8 Yea, even that great city Zarahemla did they cause to be built again.

9 But there were many cities which had been sunk, and waters came up in the stead thereof; therefore these cities could not be renewed.

10 And now, behold, it came to pass that the people of Nephi did wax strong, and did multiply exceedingly fast, and became an exceedingly fair and delightsome people.

11 And they were married, and given in marriage, and were blessed according to the multitude of the promises which the Lord had made unto them.

12 And they did not walk any more after the performances and ordinances of the law of Moses; but they did walk after the commandments which they had received from their Lord and their God, continuing in fasting and prayer, and in meeting together oft both to pray and to hear the word of the Lord.

13 And it came to pass that there was no contention among all the people, in all the land; but there were mighty miracles wrought among the disciples of Jesus.

14 And it came to pass that the *seventy and first year passed away, and also the seventy and second year, yea, and in fine, till the seventy and ninth year had passed away; yea, even an hundred years had passed away, and the disciples of Jesus, whom he had chosen, had all gone to the paradise of God, save it were the three who should tarry; and there were other disciples ordained in their stead; and also many of that generation had passed away.

15 And it came to pass that there was no contention in the land, because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people.

16 And there were no envyings, nor strifes, nor tumults, nor whoredoms, nor lyings, nor murders, nor any manner of lasciviousness; and surely there could not be a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God.

17 There were no robbers, nor murderers, neither were there Lamanites, nor any manner of -ites; but they were in one, the children of Christ, and heirs to the kingdom of God.

18 And how blessed were they! For the Lord did bless them in all their doings; yea, even they were blessed and prospered until an *hundred and ten years had passed away; and the first generation from Christ had passed away, and there was no contention in all the land.

19 And it came to pass that Nephi, he that kept this last record, (and he kept it upon the plates of Nephi) died, and his son Amos kept it in his stead; and he kept it upon the plates of Nephi also.

20 And he kept it eighty and four years, and there was still peace in the land, save it were a small part of the people who had revolted from the church and taken upon them the name of Lamanites; therefore there began to be Lamanites again in the land.

21 And it came to pass that Amos died also, (and it was an hundred and ninety and four years from the coming of Christ) and his son Amos kept the record in his stead; and he also kept it upon the plates of Nephi; and it was also written in the book of Nephi, which is this book.

22 And it came to pass that *two hundred years had passed away; and the second generation had all passed away save it were a few.

23 And now I, Mormon, would that ye should know that the people had multiplied, insomuch that they were spread upon all the face of the land, and that they had become exceedingly rich, because of their prosperity in Christ.

24 And now, in this *two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world.

25 And from that time forth they did have their goods and their substance no more common among them.

26 And they began to be divided into classes; and they began to build up churches unto themselves to get gain, and began to deny the true church of Christ.

27 And it came to pass that when *two hundred and ten years had passed away there were many churches in the land; yea, there were many churches which professed to know the Christ, and yet they did deny the more parts of his gospel, insomuch that they did receive all manner of wickedness, and did administer that which was sacred unto him to whom it had been forbidden because of unworthiness.

28 And this church did multiply exceedingly because of iniquity, and because of the power of Satan who did get hold upon their hearts.

29 And again, there was another church which denied the Christ; and they did persecute the true church of Christ, because of their humility and their belief in Christ; and they did despise them because of the many miracles which were wrought among them.

30 Therefore they did exercise power and authority over the disciples of Jesus who did tarry with them, and they did cast them into prison; but by the power of the word of God, which was in them, the prisons were rent in twain, and they went forth doing mighty miracles among them.

31 Nevertheless, and notwithstanding all these miracles, the people did harden their hearts, and did seek to kill them, even as the Jews at Jerusalem sought to kill Jesus, according to his word.

32 And they did cast them into furnaces of fire, and they came forth receiving no harm.

33 And they also cast them into dens of wild beasts, and they did play with the wild beasts even as a child with a lamb; and they did come forth from among them, receiving no harm.

34 Nevertheless, the people did harden their hearts, for they were led by many priests and false prophets to build up many churches, and to do all manner of iniquity. And they did smite upon the people of Jesus; but the people of Jesus did not smite again. And thus they did dwindle in unbelief and wickedness, from year to year, even until two hundred and thirty years had passed away.

35 And now it came to pass in this year, yea, in the *two hundred and thirty and first year, there was a great division among the people.

36 And it came to pass that in this year there arose a people who were called the Nephites, and they were true believers in Christ; and among them there were those who were called by the Lamanites—Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites;

37 Therefore the true believers in Christ, and the true worshipers of Christ, (among whom were the three disciples of Jesus who should tarry) were called Nephites, and Jacobites, and Josephites, and Zoramites.

38 And it came to pass that they who rejected the gospel were called Lamanites, and Lemuelites, and Ishmaelites; and they did not dwindle in unbelief, but they did wilfully rebel against the gospel of Christ; and they did teach their children that they should not believe, even as their fathers, from the beginning, did dwindle.

39 And it was because of the wickedness and abomination of their fathers, even as it was in the beginning. And they were taught to hate the children of God, even as the Lamanites were taught to hate the children of Nephi from the beginning.

40 And it came to pass that *two hundred and forty and four years had passed away, and thus were the affairs of the people. And the more wicked part of the people did wax strong, and became exceedingly more numerous than were the people of God.

41 And they did still continue to build up churches unto themselves, and adorn them with all manner of precious things. And thus did two hundred and fifty years pass away, and also two hundred and sixty years.

42 And it came to pass that the wicked part of the people began again to build up the secret oaths and** combinations of Gadianton.(Like** ben Laden)

43 And also the people who were called the people of Nephi began to be proud in their hearts, because of their exceeding riches, and become vain like unto their brethren, the Lamanites.

44 And from this time the disciples began to sorrow for the sins of the world.

45 And it came to pass that when three hundred years had passed away, both the people of Nephi and the Lamanites had become exceedingly wicked one like unto another.

46 And it came to pass that the robbers of Gadianton did spread over all the face of the land; and there were none that were righteous save it were the disciples of Jesus. And gold and silver did they lay up in store in abundance, and did traffic in all manner of traffic.

47 And it came to pass that after *three hundred and five years had passed away, (and the people did still remain in wickedness) Amos died; and his brother, Ammaron, did keep the record in his stead.

48 And it came to pass that when *three hundred and twenty years had passed away, Ammaron, being constrained by the Holy Ghost, did hide up the records which were sacred—yea, even all the sacred records which had been handed down from generation to generation, which were sacred—even until the three hundred and twentieth year from the coming of Christ.

49 And he did hide them up unto the Lord, that they might come again unto the remnant of the house of Jacob, according to the prophecies and the promises of the Lord. And thus is the end of the record of Ammaron.

* Verse 14 [A.D. 72]; Verse 18 [A.D. 111]; Verse 22 [A.D. 20]; Verse 24 [A.D. 201]; Verse 27 [A.D. 211]; Verse 35 [A.D. 231]; Verse 40 [A.D. 245]; Verse 47 [A.D. 306]; Verse 48 [A.D. 321].

90 posted on 05/29/2002 9:03:31 PM PDT by restornu
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To: drstevej
You ask a good question and there are several reference in the Book of Mormon on the power and authority given the priesthood and I will leave that to one in the priesthood to answer this, I have my concepts, but the priesthood can speak better on these things- thank you for the question it exciting for new understanding and awareness I am getting.
91 posted on 05/29/2002 9:36:11 PM PDT by restornu
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To: restornu
Thanks, it is an interesting topic. And I haven't heard a good discussion of the issues before.

Blessings, and good night.

92 posted on 05/29/2002 9:56:02 PM PDT by drstevej
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To: drstevej
Your #89: I saw this posted on another site. Do you agree?

I really should look at the website, if you can point me to it.

The keys refer to the sealing authority. These keys were given to [Peter, James, and John] on the mount of transfiguration by Elijah. ... 4 Ne. 1 speaks of "marriage and given in marriage," [verse 11, that is how the population continues] ... The Nephite church continued for several generations before going into apostasy. So, who was the last Nephite prophet to hold these keys? [Moroni was the last one.]

93 posted on 05/30/2002 4:13:32 AM PDT by White Mountain
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To: RnMomof7
Two of my brothers are running OS 9. They love it.
94 posted on 05/30/2002 5:00:50 AM PDT by Wrigley
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To: CubicleGuy; RnMomof7; restornu
Your #63: Just because the membership has not adopted, by common consent, a teaching of a particular prophet as being doctrinal doesn't necessarily mean that the teaching isn't true.

Truth is one thing, but this is another. I think President Young has been misunderstood by these guys when they think he taught this. They are not quoting what he says in other places, and they are also not paying attention to our Church leaders. The "Adam-God Theory" is not compatible with the truth we have.

God the Father and Jesus Christ were with Adam and Eve in the Garden, four different people:

Moses 4:28
28 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten: Behold, the man [Adam] is become as one of us to know good and evil; and now lest he put forth his hand and partake also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever,

Resurrected beings cannot become mortal again, they will never die again. Inseparably connected means inseparably connected:

D&C 93:33-34
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

It is also not at all appropriate for God the Father to transgress as Adam did and thus bring about the Fall. God, being holy, could not create a fallen world and place Adam and Eve in it. Instead, God created a perfect world where there was no death, and planted the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Adam and Eve needed to bring the Fall upon themselves by partaking of the forbidden fruit through disobedience, whereupon their physical bodies became mortal. The Savior has atoned for Adam's transgression.

Adam and Eve were not resurrected until just after the resurrection of Christ. Jesus Christ is God the Father's Only Begotten Son in mortality.

Do you need more?


The Law of Consecration is set forth in the Scriptures. It was lived in the days of Enoch, when there was no poor among them, and again in the days of Peter, James, and John, by the early Saints who "had all things common". We are not yet ready as a people, so we are to live the Law of Tithing instead until the time comes. That is really a whole different matter from the "Adam-God Theory", which is contrary to the Scriptures.

95 posted on 05/30/2002 5:30:33 AM PDT by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain;rnmomof7
Here is another post to the same forum that is more expanded and better written..... Is this accurate information?

===

As was mentioned, the keys are indeed symbolic. They are keys of authority that unlock certain mysteries surrounding the ordinances of the gospel. There is one complete set, so to speak, and that set is controlled by the living prophet and delegated by him to others. A given key from the set represents the authority to perform certain ordinances and administer in certain areas of the Church.

A deacon in the Aaronic Priesthood, for example, can exercise the priesthood keys necessary to ordain other deacons and pass the sacrament. High Priests called as sealers in the temples have the right to exercise the keys of the sealing power.

The binding and loosening refer to eternal principles... all of them, including the marriage covenant. Without the priesthood the ordinance of baptism, for example, is not binding in heaven. Eternal marriage cannot be performed without the priesthood.

Another important point to remember is that there is another element equally as important as the priesthood and that is personal worthiness.

If the recipient of a priesthood ordinance is not worthy or later becomes unworthy of the blessings associated with that ordinance, it is no longer binding in heaven. All ordinances must be performed by the authority of the priesthood and approved by the Holy Ghost. Mormons do not believe in cheap grace. Even with the priesthood, personal worthiness and the quest for righteousness are capstones of our religion.

The first Nephi in the Book of Mormon lived 600 years before Peter lived and received his priesthood authority from his father Lehi, a prophet of God.

Peter, being of the house of Judah, held no priesthood until Christ ordained him.

Christ also ordained the other original 12 apostles who, after His death, administered the priesthood keys in His stead.

The resurrected Christ also selected 12 others among the Nephites to administer the priesthood and the affairs of the Church. While these 12 would never know any of the orginal 12, they would be their subordinates, so to speak. but would hold all the keys with the exception of the keys of presidency which reside in the Quorum of the Twelve as a group and, according to modern revelation, with the first presidency of the Church when it is organized.

Sometime between the end of the 1st and the middle of the 2nd centuries, all the apostles were killed before they could meet and select replacements as they had done after the death of Judas Iscariot. The priesthood then became corrupted and was lost from the Bibilcal world. Only a short time later the Nephites began to become a corrupt people and by the 4th century no one remained on the earth having proper and accepted priesthood authority.

In May of 1829, in answer to a prayer concerning baptism, the resurrected John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and ordained them to the Aaronic Priesthood which has the keys to the first baptism. A month later, Peter, James and John, also resurrected, appeared to the same men and restored the higher authority, called the Mechizedek Priesthood. This priesthood has the keys to the second baptism and the administration of the Church.

The balance of the priesthood keys were restored on April 3, 1836 when Moses, Elijah and Elias, appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland temple where the keys of the gathering of Israel, the keys pertaining to the Abrahamic Covenant and the keys pertaining to priesthood ordinance work for the dead.

The priesthood belongs ultimately, to our Father in Heaven. When Christ was born he, like all other humans, had to learn line upon line and grow in wisdom.

One could argue that Jesus didn't need to be baptized as He was sinless and the baptism, in a sense, belongs to Him. Yet it was necessary in order to fulfill all righteousness. The precise activities on the Mount are unclear but because God the Father gave His celestial approval in the same manner He did at Christ's baptism, most LDS scriptorians believe Christ received the same powers given the Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowder in April of 1836 in the Kirtland temple.

It is likely Christ received other priesthood keys during his 40 day fast in the wilderness.

96 posted on 05/30/2002 5:59:08 AM PDT by drstevej
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To: White Mountain
Because all the first beings involved for good or evil of creation were the first born spirit children of God the Father was that true also of Adam and Eve ?Did they have other names before they became the first humans?

I agree that the Adam /God thing makes no sense as we know God can not lie or be deceived..(I did not know that any in your church held that as real doctrine...I thought it was anti LDS web site material)

97 posted on 05/30/2002 6:42:17 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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To: drstevej
A deacon in the Aaronic Priesthood, for example, can exercise the priesthood keys necessary to ordain other deacons and pass the sacrament.

The Bishop holds the keys for the AP ordinances (like the sacrament and AP ordination) in the ward. The AP holders have the authority needed to perform those ordinances, but they can't just take it upon themeselves to do it as they wish, it must be done with the approval of the Bishop who holds the keys.

All AP holders do have the keys to the ministring of angels however, and full time missionaries hold the keys of baptism and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost, Stake Presidents hold the keys for the MP ordinances for their stake. Temple presidents hold the keys for the temple ordinances done in the temple they preside over. The 12 apostles holds all the keys but can only exercise them as a quorum, and the prophet holds all the keys God has given, and is authorized to use all of them in any area.

If each ordinance was a car, having the priesthood is like having a drivers license and the priesthood keys are like the keys to the individual vehicles. Just because you have a license doesn't mean you can hop in and drive, you must be lent the key first.

Since the Nephites were of the tribe of Joseph, they did not have the AP, but they did have the MP through Lehi (so they were still able to live the Law of Moses), and from what is in Hel 10:17 ("Behold, I give unto you power, that whatsoever ye shall seal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven;") we can see that at the very least the keys to seal a marriage were among them some of the time. I see no reason to think that the 12 diciples Christ appointed didn't also hold those keys. Since the BoM was sealed up to come forth in the last days, I think it pretty safe to say that Moroni held those keys too, and he would have been the last of the Nephites to hold them.

The 12 diciples held the keys for the ordinances for the tribe of Joseph and were not apostles, apostles hold those keys for all the tribes.

98 posted on 05/30/2002 7:22:40 AM PDT by Grig
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To: RnMomof7
Your #97: Because all the first beings involved for good or evil of creation were the first born spirit children of God the Father was that true also of Adam and Eve ?Did they have other names before they became the first humans? I agree that the Adam /God thing makes no sense as we know God can not lie or be deceived..(I did not know that any in your church held that as real doctrine...I thought it was anti LDS web site material)

Me, too, on that last part.

Adam was known as Michael the Archangel before the Garden of Eden (and after his death, because Jude refers to him).

Adam and Eve were spirit children of God the Father, same as all the rest of us, before they were here on earth. We all came here to clothe our spirits with physical bodies. In our corruptible and fallen and limited state, we tend not to think of our physical bodies as a blessing, but in the resurrection we will be immortal and incorruptible, and we will understand all these things.

99 posted on 05/30/2002 7:32:42 AM PDT by White Mountain
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To: White Mountain
I beleiev that angels are different creations than man..

Now I know that I believe that..but how does the LDS account for angels?

100 posted on 05/30/2002 8:00:30 AM PDT by RnMomof7
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