Posted on 06/24/2026 3:16:53 AM PDT by Cronos
When Saul marched forth with his army, he cautioned: “Allah will test you with a river. So whoever drinks ˹his fill˺ from it is not with me, and whoever does not taste it—except a sip from the hollow of his hands—is definitely with me.” They all drank ˹their fill˺ except for a few! When he and the ˹remaining˺ faithful with him crossed the river, they said, “Now we are no match for Goliath and his warriors.” But those ˹believers˺ who were certain they would meet Allah reasoned, “How many times has a small force vanquished a mighty army by the Will of Allah! And Allah is ˹always˺ with the steadfast.”
Judges 5
" 4 But the Lord said to Gideon, “There are still too many men. Take them down to the water, and I will thin them out for you there. If I say, ‘This one shall go with you,’ he shall go; but if I say, ‘This one shall not go with you,’ he shall not go.”
5 So Gideon took the men down to the water. There the Lord told him, “Separate those who lap the water with their tongues as a dog laps from those who kneel down to drink.” 6 Three hundred of them drank from cupped hands, lapping like dogs. All the rest got down on their knees to drink.
7 The Lord said to Gideon, “With the three hundred men that lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hands. Let all the others go home.” 8 So Gideon sent the rest of the Israelites home but kept the three hundred, who took over the provisions and trumpets of the others. "
And the Quran, the supposed word of Allah mixes up Gideon and Saul??!?
The Islamic Dilemma.
Mohammed is just like Democrat Socialists. He/they rewrite history to their choosing. In both respects, to me it is the deceptive work of the Devil. Through the Devil’s influence, Mohammed tried to rewrite the history of the Lord’s Word into Allah’s Quran - think about that. Today, the Socialists/Communist are trying to do the same thing by doing their damndest to rewrite humanity’s past. In both instances, it’s evil doing. God’s people of today have gone astray and will pay dearly for their betrayal.
It’s that little “Palmaris brevis” muscle at the edge of the hand that does it.
God could’ve made the selection criterion the ability to raise one eyebrow but the select weren’t Vulcans.
Sorry. But the Quran is not valid if it is translated. It is only acceptable in 6th century archaic Arabic.
What's this "us Christians" you're claiming?
I've asked you previously if you're a follower of Christ and you never answered....which is equivalent to a denial.
You been to confession?
I believe that Jesus did not demand a single verbal declaration of submission (the Shahada), or rules through an evolving system of human interpretations (Sharia) while leaving the physical world devoid of His actual presence only to whisk us away at the Mahdi time -- why do I believe that? Because it's not in what Jesus taught us. Do you believe Jesus?
Wow....we finally get an answer to one of the two questions I've been asking you now for multiple days. But only when you had to be called out on it.
Now....have you been to confession? Did you make a honest and sincere confession?
Yes. I've noted multiple times in various threads I am a follower of Christ, and Christ alone.
Unlike some, I don't have to be prodded and poked to get the answer. A TRUE believer should always be willing to publiclly claim they're a follower of Christ.
They do.
And Roman Catholicism says this about your denomination and Islam:
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."33
So, to be certain that you don't recite the Shahada, let's pull the spotlight directly back to the text you are running away from:
Your consistent pattern of lies and false accusations follows you like your shadow.
Do you accept the literal words of Jesus Christ in John 6 and John 15?
I accept the entire Word of God. However what is rejected is your take on these passages and probably most others.
Now, if you truly believe in the literal words, though I'm not convinced you do or even understand the proper way to understand the Bible....do you get hungry or thirsty?
And no metaphysical spiritual answer IF you're claiming a literal understanding of the passage in question.
Do you believe you cannot lose your salvation? Well, of course you do as that's what your denomination teaches and commands you to believe.
So rome has already shown it doesn't properly understand this passage and doesn't have a consistent hermenuetic.
we Christians believe that Jesus was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate? That He suffered and was buried and that on the third day he rose again. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Do you believe that? No mealy-mouthed "he was substituted by Simon of Cyrene" etc. please
You falsely claim the title of Christian and continuously demonstrate the Truth is not in you with your lies and false accusations.
Mad Mo probably didn't appreciate God favoring any activity described as dog-like, either. Therefore he twisted the story to his liking.
Mosques should have a McDonald's-like sign: "Over One Billion Swerved"
You still haven’t answered.
Hmmm.. talk of taqqiyah.
To be certain that you don’t recite the Shahada, let’s pull the spotlight directly back to the text you are running away from:
1. Do you believe Him in John 6?
- He is pretty clear in His explicit command to trōgō (gnaw/chew) His Flesh, or are you changing His literal words into a safe, symbolic human whatabouttery?
2. Do you believe Him in John 15?
- he is pretty clear in His warning that a branch genuinely in Him can be cut off, wither, and be cast into the fire
Do you accept the literal words of Jesus Christ in John 6 and John 15?
we Christians believe that Jesus was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate? That He suffered and was buried and that on the third day he rose again. He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
Do you believe that? No mealy-mouthed “he was substituted by Simon of Cyrene” etc. please
Eagleone, saying you “accept the entire Word of God” while rejecting what it actually says is a total contradiction. You completely evaded the texts by launching into more false equivalences.
Here is the absolute core of your failure:
- John 6 (Trōgō): You ask if I still get hungry to avoid the literal text. Jesus did not say your current physical hunger would vanish; He gave a declarative, ontological definition of the Eucharist, switching to the graphic verb trōgō (gnaw/chew) so no one could reduce it to a metaphor. You are fleeing from His explicit vocabulary.
You completely refuse to touch the word trōgō (to gnaw/chew).
You avoids the actual linguistic data by broadly claiming you rejects my “take,” but you fail to offer a counter-explanation for why Jesus deliberately switched to that graphic, physical verb.
you then fall back on the failed argument about physical hunger (”do you get hungry or thirsty?”). This is an intentional conflation of genres. Jesus’s promise that “he who comes to me shall not hunger” (John 6:35) refers to the final, eschatological satisfaction of the human soul and the resurrection body.
Your clumsy attempt to compare a sacrament to everyday physical hunger is an embarrassing category error. Jesus didn’t say, “If you believe in Me, your stomach will never growl again today.” He said, “The bread that I will give for the life of the world IS my flesh” (John 6:51). You are desperately inventing abstract “whataboutisms” because you cannot face the graphic reality of the verb He chose.
then you start playing semantic games with John 15. Christ says a branch that is “in Me” can be “cut off, wither, and be cast into the fire.”
To be in Christ means to be in a state of saving grace.
To be cut off and burned means damnation.
It takes zero “inference” or “denominational programming” to read those words exactly as they are written.
Your theology forces you to audit the Son of God and tell Him that a branch “in Him” can never actually be cut off.
You are changing His explicit warnings into a safe, comfortable metaphor to protect your 19th century traditions.
You can claim you “accept the entire Word of God” all day long, but your posts tell a completely different story. The moment the literal text of the Bible threatens your Protestant traditions, you deviate into attempted ad hominem insults.
If you aren’t afraid of the text, stop hiding behind my breakfast habits and answer the Greek: Why did Jesus command His followers to trōgō His flesh?
*****
And of course, you, ealgeone, forget John 6:51-58
sus says, “I am the living bread which came down from heaven… the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh… Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you… He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.”
This passage, part of the Bread of Life discourse, explicitly teaches that the Eucharist involves eating Jesus’ actual flesh and blood, not a mere symbol. The Greek verbs for “eat” (phagō and trōgō, - LITERALLY TO CHEW) emphasize a physical act, and the crowd’s shock (John 6:60, 66) suggests they understood Jesus literally, not metaphorically.
*****
Let's put all this in CONTEXT...which is the key to understanding the Bible.
Jesus is talking to unbelieving Jews.
This is the same group whom Jesus had previously fed. Now they again ask for a sign that they may believe.. They want to see a work so they might believe…..forgetting He had fed them. This is a fairly consistent request we see in the NT. People wanted to see Him perform miracles or something else as proof. And He did do miracles to demonstrate exactly Who He was….but He didn’t do so as a form of entertainment or amusement.
Now the Jews are asking for something they must do. They are thinking of deeds or other similar things….but note His reply.
28Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?”
29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
In v29 Jesus explains the core issue of the Gospel…the necessity of believing in Him. 30So they said to Him, “What then do You do for a sign, so that we may see, and believe You? What work do You perform? 31“Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, ‘HE GAVE THEM BREAD OUT OF HEAVEN TO EAT.’”
Jesus now replies to them explaining where the bread they refer to has come from....it's not Moses so already He is correcting their error.
32Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven. 33“For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.” 34Then they said to Him, “Lord, always give us this bread.”
Jesus now explains the simple Gospel message. He clearly identifies Himself as the bread that has come down from Heaven. And He notes the necessity of believing in Him.
The astute reader will also note the certainty of salvation in this statement from Jesus as He notes He will not cast them out; I lose nothing; will have eternal life: all of this is predicated upon believing in Him.
Also note that salvation comes from the Father as it is He Who gives the believers to Christ.
35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39“This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40“For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Now note the conversation. It is the unbelieving Jews who have misunderstood what He was saying. They are thinking in literal terms and denying Who He is; and that’s key here…they are denying Who He is.
41Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?”
Jesus now makes it clear only those whom the Father draws can come to Him. This will become an issue later one as we will see. Jesus again emphasizes the necessity of believing in Him in v47. As He noted to the Samaritan woman about living water in reference to Himself, which she also didn’t understand but was thinking of literal water, Jesus contrasts Himself with the manna that came down from Heaven. Those who ate that bread died. The eating of the bread He is referring to is believing in Him as noted above. Jesus is talking about the sacrifice of His flesh and blood He will give to the world for salvation.
43Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45“It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46“Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. 48“I am the bread of life. 49“Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50“This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51“I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
Note who is misunderstanding the statements from Christ. They’re not getting the message but are thinking in literal terms of eating/drinking flesh and blood.
Some RC apologists note Jesus doesn’t correct them in their mis-understanding. This would not be the first time He doesn’t correct someone. Recall the rich young ruler. Jesus didn’t correct him and allowed him to walk away.
52Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” 53So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves. 54“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. 55“For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56“He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57“As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me. 58“This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever.”
Many of His disciples are having a hard time understanding this. Jesus is well aware of this and asks them several questions.
But, more importantly He notes it is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing; the words I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. Jesus is trying to get them to understand it’s not the physical eating/drinking of flesh and blood as the unbelieving Jews were thinking. It’s about believing in Him; recognizing He is the bread of life for those who will believe.
59These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
60Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this said, “This is a difficult statement; who can listen to it?” 61But Jesus, conscious that His disciples grumbled at this, said to them, “Does this cause you to stumble? 62“What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before? 63“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.
Why did many of His disciples leave Him? A good question.
Jesus clearly states: there are some who do not believe. He also notes it is only the Father Who grants salvation….no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.
That indeed is a difficult statement for many today as it was for many of His disciples back then.
64“But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
It was this exchange, not the discussion of eating/drinking, that caused many of His disciples to walk away.
66As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
Now He turns to the twelve and asks them if they want to leave. Note Peter’s reply. Peter correctly notes He has words of life and they have believed and know He is the Holy One of God. Peter and the others understood it’s about believing in Him which was the point Jesus was making in vv29, 35, 40, 63 67So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69“We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.” 70Jesus answered them, “Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?” 71Now He meant Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.
I don't believe I've addressed John 15.
As that's the case it's yet another false statement by you.
Now, if we're to take your claim of a "literal" understanding of the text are you claiming He's a vine....like one that grows in the garden? Because IF your hermenuetic is applied consistently that has to be your position.
Christ says a branch that is “in Me” can be “cut off, wither, and be cast into the fire.
This is what He actually said.
It's one thing to misquote me...it's a whole other issue to misquote Him.
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
To be in Christ means to be in a state of saving grace.
And by your mortal sins you are not; at least per roman catholic theology.
Here's the $64 question you're either afraid to answer or can't answer....have you been to confession??
To be cut off and burned means damnation.
Posting the text in question for the casual reader for CONTEXT as you're a tad careless with the word.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
It takes zero “inference” or “denominational programming” to read those words exactly as they are written.
I have no problems with what is recorded in the inspired word of God.
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