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THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST - catechism of the Catholic Church (sections 1&2 only) {Ecumenical Thread}
Catechism of the catholic Church ^

Posted on 10/20/2025 2:57:13 AM PDT by Cronos

THE SACRAMENT OF THE EUCHARIST

1322 The holy Eucharist completes Christian initiation. Those who have been raised to the dignity of the royal priesthood by Baptism and configured more deeply to Christ by Confirmation participate with the whole community in the Lord's own sacrifice by means of the Eucharist.

1323 "At the Last Supper, on the night he was betrayed, our Savior instituted the Eucharistic sacrifice of his Body and Blood. This he did in order to perpetuate the sacrifice of the cross throughout the ages until he should come again, and so to entrust to his beloved Spouse, the Church, a memorial of his death and resurrection: a sacrament of love, a sign of unity, a bond of charity, a Paschal banquet 'in which Christ is consumed, the mind is filled with grace, and a pledge of future glory is given to us.'"

1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life.""The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."

1325 "The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God's action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit."

1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all
1 Cor 15:28.

28And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."

1328 The inexhaustible richness of this sacrament is expressed in the different names we give it. Each name evokes certain aspects of it. It is called:

Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. The Greek words eucharistein
Lk 22:19

19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1 Cor 11:24
24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
and eulogein
Mt 26:26
26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
Mk 14:22
22And as they did eat, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and brake it, and gave to them, and said, Take, eat: this is my body.
recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God's works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.

1329 The Lord's Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem
1 Cor 11:20

20When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
Rev 19:9
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

The Breaking of Bread because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meat when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread,
Mt 14:19
19And he commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, he blessed, and brake, and gave the loaves to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mt 15:36
36And he took the seven loaves and the fishes, and gave thanks, and brake them, and gave to his disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
Mk 8:6
6And he commanded the people to sit down on the ground: and he took the seven loaves, and gave thanks, and brake, and gave to his disciples to set before them; and they did set them before the people.
Mk 8:19
19When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.
20And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.
21And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?
above all at the Last Supper
Mt 26:26
26And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.
1 Cor 11:24
24And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection,
Lk 24:13-35
13And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.

14And they talked together of all these things which had happened.

15And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.

16But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.

17And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?

18And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days?

19And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

20And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.

21But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

22Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;

23And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.

24And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.

25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

28And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.

29But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.

30And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.

31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

32And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

33And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,

34Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

35And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.

and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies;
Acts 2:42
42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers
Acts2:46
46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts20:7
7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Acts 20:11
11When he therefore was come up again, and had broken bread, and eaten, and talked a long while, even till break of day, so he departed
by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him.
Heb 13:15
15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
1 Pet 2:5
5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Ps 116:13
13I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD.
Ps 116:17
17I will offer to thee the sacrifice of thanksgiving, and will call upon the name of the LORD.
Mal 1:11
11For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

The Eucharistic assembly (synaxis), because the Eucharist is celebrated amid the assembly of the faithful, the visible expression of the Church.

1330 The memorial of the Lord's Passion and Resurrection.

The Holy Sacrifice because the Church's whole liturgy finds its center and most intense expression in the celebration of this sacrament; in the same sense we also call its celebration the Sacred Mysteries We speak of the Most Blessed Sacrament because it is the Sacrament of sacraments. The Eucharistic species reserved in the tabernacle are designated by this same name.

1331 Holy Communion because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.
1 Cor 10:16-17

16The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

17For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta)the first meaning of the phrase "communion of saints" in the Apostles' Creed - the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,viaticum

1332 Holy Mass (Missa), because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth (missio) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God's will in their daily lives.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Theology; Worship
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Note -- I've taken the Biblical quotes from the KJV

NOTE: this is an ecumenical thread, the rules for which can be found Ecumenical thread rules

when in doubt, only post what you are “for” and not what you are “against.”... antagonism is not tolerable

I am aware that our brothers in Christ may not share the same beliefs and I respect your faith and this thread has no aim to attack what you believe in, rather to elucidate what we in The Church believe in.

The focus is on God's word in our beliefs and if you wish to share yours (whether you be Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant or Baptist or other), that would be nice, though do remember the ecumenical thread rules ("when in doubt, only post what you are “for” and not what you are “against.”"). Hopefully we all learn more from each other and what each of us believes in (positive) rather than what we are against (negative)
1 posted on 10/20/2025 2:57:13 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

PM


2 posted on 10/20/2025 3:11:32 AM PDT by kinsman redeemer (The real enemy seeks to devour what is good. )
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To: Cronos

Have you considered, instead, quoting from the Church-approved English translation of the Saint Jerome’s Latin Vulgate version of the Holy Bible, known as the Douay Rheims?

FWIW, it predates the KJV. By decades, in the case of the New Testament, published at Douay. (The English translation of the Old Testament was later published at Rheims.)

The full text is available at https://www.drbo.org/


3 posted on 10/20/2025 3:25:48 AM PDT by one guy in new jersey
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To: one guy in new jersey
Those on both sides of transubstantiation have argued that early church Father's affirm their side of the argument. The question I ask myself is why does me becoming a cannibal in eating Jesus' literal body and blood be something that benefits me spiritually or otherwise?

There are those who point to John 6 and say it confirms the teaching of transubstantiation.

"They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst. " John 6:34-35 Here I see Jesus saying, 'BELIEF/FAITH' in me gives life.

"I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh, for the life of the world." John 6:51,52 Here, I understand that Jesus is foretelling the crucifixion/sacrifice of His body, which is the bread that gives life.

"He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. ....... Many therefore of his disciples, hearing it, said: This saying is hard, and who can hear it? But Jesus, knowing in himself, that his disciples murmured at this, said to them: Doth this scandalize you? If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth: the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you, are spirit and life. John 6:56-64 Here, Jesus, who is the Word, explains to those confused by His reference to physical bread and wine as his body and blood - explains that His words are spirit and life.

If I believed that spiritual life or benefit comes from eating Jesus' physical body and blood, I would do so. Throughout Jesus' ministry He explained spiritual with metaphor and allegory. Unless someone can explain why cannibalizing Jesus brings spiritual life, I will doubt the teaching of transubstantiation.

4 posted on 10/20/2025 4:17:57 AM PDT by JesusIsLord
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To: JesusIsLord; .45 Long Colt; Apple Pan Dowdy; BDParrish; Big Red Badger; BlueDragon; boatbums; ...
Unless someone can explain why cannibalizing Jesus brings spiritual life, I will doubt the teaching of transubstantiation.

Without seeking to be antagonistic which an ecumenical threads excludes, you need to understand some RC theology on the subject. In which (much copy and paste begins) at the words of consecration by the priest (and only by ordained priests) ,” (Lk. 22:19; cf. Mt. 26:26; Mk.14:22;1Co. 11:24) means there takes place a change of the bread in each and every particle into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood,thus becoming the “true Body of Christ and his true Blood,” (CCC 1376; 1381) having been “substantially changed into the true and proper and lifegiving flesh and blood of Jesus Christ our Lord,” being corporeally present whole and entire in His physical "reality.” (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965) "the very body which he gave up for us on the cross, the very blood which he "poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins,"(CCC 1365) with His human body and human soul, with His bodily organs and limbs and with His human mind, will and feelings. (John A. Hardon, S.J., Part I: Eucharistic Doctrine on the Real Presence) Thus the statement, "Consequently, eating and drinking are to be understood of the actual partaking of Christ in person, hence literally.” (Catholic Encyclopedia>The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist)

Yet not as a body "sensible, visible, tangible, or extended, although it is such in heaven," but under a "new mode of being," (John A. Hardon, S.J., Doctrine of the Real Presence in the Encyclical "Mediator Dei") so that the Eucharist being "the true and proper and lifegiving flesh and blood of Jesus Christ," "the very body which he gave up for us on the cross," etc. does not mean the bread and wine are literally transformed into actual literal human with its manifest properties. The presence of Christ's true body and blood in this sacrament cannot be detected by sense, nor understanding, but by faith alone..." (Summa Theologica; 75:1) Thus "If you took the consecrated host to a laboratory it would be chemically shown to be bread, not human flesh." (Dwight Longenecker, "Explaining Transubstantiation")

It is more technically explained that at consecration the substance of the bread and wine is changed during the Eucharistic consecration into the Body and Blood, soul and divinity of Christ under the appearance of bread and wine, while His body in its spatial existence in Heaven remains, with the "accidents" [a philosophical term referring to appearance] of the bread and wine replacing the accidents of Christ’s body: his tissues, bones, and cells. Thus "While Christ’s body is in heaven according to his natural mode of existence, it can simultaneously be present in the Eucharist according to a supernatural mode of existence." (http://www.catholicvirginian.org/archive/2013/2013vol89iss3/pages/article7.html) Hardon additionally specifies, "It does not merely mean that the substance of bread and wine becomes the substance of Christ. The Real Presence is not only the substance of Christ, but the whole of Christ - His substance plus all the human properties of His humanity." (John A. Hardon, S.J., Part I: Eucharistic Doctrine on the Real Presence) Meaning that in the Catholic Eucharistic ceremony, the incarnated body of Christ which hung on the cross becomes literally present, invisibly under the form of bread and wine which scientifically only test as the same, but He is not locally present as He was on earth. And it is believed thus that "Christ is really present and is received whole and entire, body and blood, soul and Divinity, under either species alone," (Catholic Encyclopedia>Communion under Both Kinds) "in each particle and in each drop," of blood.

Furthermore, at the moment of the completion of the words of consecration by the priest then the bread and wine no longer exist, while the "Real Presence" of Christ's body that these elements are changed into (which change is said to be occur outside of time) only exists until the bread or wine - which again, are held to no longer exist - begin to decompose, as Aquinas affirms (Summa theologiae, III, q. 77, a. 6) as well as others: "The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ." (CCC 1377; Cf. Council of Trent: DS 1641) "...that is, until the Eucharist is digested, physically destroyed, or decays by some natural process." (The Holy Eucharist BY Bernard Mulcahy, O.P., p. 32) Thus persons with celiac disease can suffer adverse effects to the non-existent gluten in the Eucharistic host) and wine (which one could get drunk on in sufficient quantity) takes place (as with mold, digestion, etc.), in which case "Christ has discontinued His Presence therein." (Catholic Encyclopedia>The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist)

In addition, Catholic teaching holds the offering of her Eucharist to be a propitiatory sacrifice for sins. "The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice...And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory." 190 [citing Council of Trent] CCC 1367 (http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm) CCC 1414; “As sacrifice, the Eucharist is also offered in reparation for the sins of the living and the dead and to obtain spiritual or temporal benefits from God.” "One of the ends for which it is offered [the Mass] is the propitiation of God's wrath." (Catholic Encyclopedia>Reparation; http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12775a.htm) "Uniquely among the sacraments, the Eucharist is also a sacrifice, the sacrifice of Christ himself. Sacrifices offer something up to God to honour him, to thank him, to gain communion with him and to make expiation for sin. The Eucharistic sacrifice of Christ achieves all of these perfectly." (http://www.stjosephsparish.co.uk/index.php/19-our-faith/52-eucharist) "...the Sacrifice of the Eucharist is offered to God for the expiation of our sins. Because the Sacrifice on Calvary is the same Sacrifice that Christ himself offers in the Mass, the priest offers it to God as the complete satisfaction for man’s sins." (http://www.stjohnofthecrossacademy.com/blog)

This “sacrament” is taught as being "the heart and summit of the Christian life...by this sacrifice he pours out the graces of salvation on his Body which is the Church." (CCC 1407) “the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes us live for ever in Jesus Christ," (CCC 1415) "spiritual nourishment," (www.usccb.org>Prayer and Worship>The Mass>Order of Mass) “a kind of consummation of the spiritual life, and in a sense the goal of all the sacraments," (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965) through which “the work of our redemption is carried out,” (CCC 1364) and by which “we are joined to Christ's sacrifice and receive its inexhaustible benefits." (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, "The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist") with the offering of which being the primary active function of her clergy, and around which all else in Catholicism essentially revolves. "For the most holy Eucharist contains the Church's entire spiritual wealth...in which she discovers the full manifestation of his [Christ's] boundless love." (Pope John Paul 2: Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 2003) The Eastern Orthodox likewise state that "the very center of our spiritual lives is the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist. (http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/twopaths.aspx) And which leads to this unScriptural ststement, "You are what you eat and the Church becomes the Body of Christ by partaking of the Body of Christ—this is how we come to know Christ, who is Truth." (https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2015/01/07/problem-authority-know-true)

Therefore for us to be as truth-loving noble Bereans who thus search the Scriptures to see if faith claims are true, (Acts 17:11) then even more than for lesser practices we must expect and require that such a preeminent and essential practice and cardinal doctrine be a practice which is often manifestly seen in the life of the church and its pastoral epistles, and its doctrine at least basically expounded therein. Including as being the primary function of its pastors.

And it also requires that this and the alternative metaphorical interpretation be examined for conformity in the light of the immediate, broader and entire context of all of Scripture, especially since at face value it would be requiring kosher Jews to disobey the strict injunction against eating blood, which was required of Gentile converts as well. (Lv. 17:10.11; Acts 15:20; 21:25) ^

►Of which see Metaphorical versus literal speech and following, by the grace of God.

5 posted on 10/20/2025 6:19:58 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: daniel1212

Thank you for a wonderful explanation.

“Tantum Ergo” began playing in my mind.

Tantum ergo Sacramentum
Veneremur cernui:
Et antiquum documentum
Novo cedat ritui:
Praestet fides supplementum
Sensuum defectui.


6 posted on 10/20/2025 6:50:11 AM PDT by Bigg Red ( Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.)
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To: JesusIsLord; Bigg Red
JesusIsLord "The question I ask myself is why does me becoming a cannibal in eating Jesus' literal body and blood be something that benefits me spiritually or otherwise? "

you do realize that these are the same objections that the 1st and 2nd century critics of Christianity had?

And these objections "how can we eat his Body??? we aren't cannibals" is what the disciples who left Jesus in John 6 said.

I think I have a detailed response of my own from 2014 somewhere, let me scan my personal answers db :)

7 posted on 10/20/2025 7:07:23 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: JesusIsLord; Bigg Red

Here you go:

Why The Eucharist Is Not Cannibalism: It is the Sacrament of Christ’s Glorified Presence

Cannibalism involves eating the physical, dead flesh of a human being in a crude, destructive way. The Eucharist is fundamentally different.

Jesus says, “This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me” (Luke 22:19 KJV). In John 6:51-56 KJV, He declares, “I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world... Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.” The Greek word *sarx* (flesh) is literal, but Jesus clarifies it’s spiritual: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life” (John 6:63 KJV).

This isn’t crude flesh-eating—it’s a sacramental mystery where Christ’s glorified, risen Body (1 Corinthians 15:42-44 KJV: “It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body”) is present.

We don’t eat “literal” human flesh in a cannibalistic sense—it’s Christ’s divine, resurrected presence, the same Body that ascended (Acts 1:9-11 KJV). Paul warns that unworthy reception profanes “the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:27-29 KJV).

John 6:56 KJV: “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.” It fosters intimate communion, nourishing the soul like food does the body (John 6:35 KJV: “He that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst”). This leads to resurrection: “I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:54 KJV).

Early pagan critics accused Christians of cannibalism due to misunderstandings of the Eucharist, but the Church refuted this by emphasizing its spiritual, sacramental nature (e.g., as explained in catechisms drawing from John 6:63). The benefits are eternal—union with God (1 Corinthians 6:17 KJV: “He that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit”) and preparation for heaven (Revelation 19:9 KJV: “Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb”).

If this addresses your question or you’d like to explore these Scriptures further, I’m open to discussion


8 posted on 10/20/2025 7:10:33 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: daniel1212; Bigg Red

The claim that the Eucharist is unscriptural and cannibalistic misrepresents Christian teaching.

The Real Presence is biblical:
- Jesus says, “This is my body... my blood” (Luke 22:19–20 KJV), and John 6:51–56 insists, “My flesh is meat indeed... he that eateth my flesh... hath eternal life.”

It’s not cannibalism but Christ’s glorified Body (1 Corinthians 15:44), present sacramentally (1 Corinthians 10:16).

- Paul warns of profaning it (1 Corinthians 11:27–29), proving its reality. The early Church practiced it (Acts 2:42, “breaking of bread”).

The “kosher” objection ignores Jesus fulfilling the Law (Matthew 5:17; Acts 10:15, clean foods).


9 posted on 10/20/2025 7:17:26 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Thank you for all of your replies.

I am so grateful that our Glorious Lord allows me to share in this Blessed Sacrament.


10 posted on 10/20/2025 7:28:25 AM PDT by Bigg Red ( Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.)
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To: Cronos

You are contradicting yourself in this post.


11 posted on 10/20/2025 8:03:57 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Cronos
If this addresses your question or you’d like to explore these Scriptures further, I’m open to discussion.

Frankly, it does not.

I believe the following represents Catholic theology on Transubstantiation:

Transubstantiation posits that the real presence of Christ is in the Eucharist, meaning that Christ is truly, really, and substantially present—body, blood, soul, and divinity—under the appearances of bread and wine. Again, the theology posits a change in the substance of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ, while their accidents (outward characteristics) remain unaltered. This means that while the consecrated bread and wine still look, taste, and feel like bread and wine, their fundamental reality has been transformed into the living and glorious Christ.

It seems Catholic apologists want it both ways. On one hand they teach that the Eucharist is "truly, really, and substantially present—body, blood, soul, and divinity" and then argue that you are not eating Christ (not cannibalizing) Christ's body and blood.

All that aside, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: "Where is the benefit of me eating Jesus' (truly, really, and substantial present—body, blood, soul)?

I previously gave you my understanding of John 6, which is all about BELIEVING in Jesus and who He is.

12 posted on 10/20/2025 8:33:28 AM PDT by JesusIsLord
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To: Cronos
The Real Presence is biblical:

Rather, regardless of persistent assertions, this claim has repeatedly and extensively shown to be untenable in the light of all that Scripture teaches, in context, as well as what your selective meanings of certain Greek words. Which I need not reiterate again, which would result in antagonism.

13 posted on 10/20/2025 11:05:01 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: Cronos

“The Real Presence is biblical”

If you mean this, then I agree with you:

Matthew 18:20 ESV

20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”


14 posted on 10/20/2025 1:06:50 PM PDT by kosciusko51
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To: JesusIsLord

Jesus Himself tells us that He is speaking figuratively about “eating” Him.

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

What I find interesting, and ironic, is what Bible literalists Catholics become when it comes to interpreting verses to support their predetermined doctrine.


15 posted on 10/20/2025 3:55:51 PM PDT by metmom (He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus….)
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To: metmom

I find it fascinating that Protestants will reject what has been taught from the beginning.

Don’t believe me?

Go the catacombs and you’ll the Eucharist drawn on the walls.
Read the church fathers, many of whom learned the faith at the feet of the Apostles, write about the Eucharist.

Read it all here at https://www.catholic.com/tract/eucharist.

Now see who opposes this teaching.


16 posted on 10/20/2025 4:33:46 PM PDT by Texas_Guy
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To: kosciusko51

Thank you for sharing that verse—it’s a beautiful reminder of Christ’s spiritual presence when believers gather in His name! However, the Real Presence in the Eucharist refers to Christ’s literal, bodily presence in the consecrated bread and wine, as taught in Scripture.

In John 6:51-58, Jesus declares, “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh... Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life... For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.” The crowd’s shock and many disciples’ departure (John 6:60-66) show He meant this literally, not symbolically.

At the Last Supper, Jesus institutes the Eucharist: “While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’ And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink of it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins’” (Matthew 26:26-28; see also Mark 14:22-24, Luke 22:19-20).

Paul affirms this in 1 Corinthians 10:16: “The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?” And he warns of unworthy reception: “Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord” (1 Corinthians 11:27), implying a real presence.

These passages highlight the Eucharist as a profound, sacramental encounter with Christ’s true body and blood for our nourishment and unity.


17 posted on 10/20/2025 9:36:57 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: JesusIsLord

I appreciate your thoughtful question about the benefits of receiving Jesus’ true Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity in the Eucharist and apoloogies that I didn’t directly respond to it earlier.

Biblically, as Jesus said, eating of His Body fosters intimate union with Christ (John 6:56: “He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him”), provides spiritual nourishment for eternal life (John 6:54: “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day”), and strengthens us against sin (1 Corinthians 10:16: “The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?”).

The eating of His Body is Christ’s gift for our sanctification (1 Corinthians 11:26: “For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come”).

Regarding John 6 being “all about believing in Jesus and who He is,” you’re right that faith is foundational (John 6:29: “This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent”). However, the chapter builds on this, showing that true belief includes accepting and partaking in the Eucharist as Jesus’ real Body and Blood (John 6:53: “Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you”). The disciples’ rejection (John 6:66) wasn’t just unbelief but the “hard saying” of eating His flesh (John 6:60), which Jesus affirms as necessary for abiding in Him (John 6:56).


18 posted on 10/20/2025 9:44:02 PM PDT by Cronos
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To: JesusIsLord; Elsie
All that aside, I'm still waiting for an answer to my question: "Where is the benefit of me eating Jesus' (truly, really, and substantial present—body, blood, soul)?

Well, in case you missed it, according to the semi-literal Catholic imagination, their Eucharist of non-existent bread and wine being the True body and blood of Christ (until the non-existent bread or wine begins to manifest decomposure), is “the medicine of immortality, the antidote for death, and the food that makes us live for ever in Jesus Christ," (CCC 1415)
"spiritual nourishment," (www.usccb.org>Prayer and Worship>The Mass>Order of Mass)
“a kind of consummation of the spiritual life, and in a sense the goal of all the sacraments," (Mysterium Fidei, Encyclical of Pope Paul VI, 1965)
through which “the work of our redemption is carried out,” (CCC 1364)
and by which “we are joined to Christ's sacrifice and receive its inexhaustible benefits." (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops,
"The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Sacrament of the Eucharist")
with the offering of which being the primary active function of her clergy, and around which all else in Catholicism essentially revolves.

"For the most holy Eucharist contains the Church's entire spiritual wealth...in which she discovers the full manifestation of his [Christ's] boundless love." (Pope John Paul 2: Ecclesia de Eucharistia, 2003) The Eastern Orthodox likewise state that "the very center of our spiritual lives is the liturgical celebration of the Eucharist. (http://orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/twopaths.aspx) And which leads to this unScriptural ststement, "You are what you eat and the Church becomes the Body of Christ by partaking of the Body of Christ—this is how we come to know Christ, who is Truth." (https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2015/01/07/problem-authority-know-true)

And RCAs (Roman Catholic Apologists) often warn us that John 6:53 means you must partake of there patented Eucharist in order to have spiritual life in you, to be saved. Which is why in the Catholic version of the word of God you see the Lord's supper being so clearly often mentioned in nearly every epistle, and as being the means of regeneration, (Catholic Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Extra Eph. 1:13) and described as "milk" and "meat" (Catholic 1Co. 3:2; Heb. 5:13; Pope's 1 Peter 2:2) by which believers are "nourished" (Cath. 1Tim. 4:6) and built up, and with the administration of which being the primary unique active function of pastors, whereby they "fed the flock" (Catholic Acts 20:28, 32).

Those "Bible Christians" seem to think that being born of God by "the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation" refers to effectual penitent, heart-purifying, regenerating, justifying faith (Acts 10:43-47; 15:7-9; Titus 3:5) in the Risen Divine Son of God sent be the Father to be the Savior of the world, (1 Jn. 4:14) who saves sinners by His sinless shed blood.

And which faith is imputed for righteousness, (Romans 4:5) and is shown in baptism and following the Lord, (Acts 2:38-47; Jn. 10:27, 28) manifesting fruits which accompany salvation, (Heb. 6:9,10) including repentance when convicted of not obeying their Lord. (2 Samuel 12:7-13; Psalms 32:3-6; 51:3; Hosea 5:15; 1 Jn. 1:8-10; 2 Corinthians 7:9-10; James 5:19-20) And whom such shall go to be with at death or His return (Phil 1:23; 2Cor. 5:8 [“we”]; Heb, 12:22,23; 1Cor. 15:51ff'; 1Thess. 4:17) Glory and thanks be to God. In contrast to those who were never born of the Spirit or who terminally fall away. thereby forfeiting what faith obtained. (Gal. 5:1-4; Heb. 3:12; 10:25-39)

19 posted on 10/21/2025 2:28:39 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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To: JesusIsLord
John 6, which is all about BELIEVING in Jesus and who He is.

https://evangelicalanswers.blogspot.com/2025/07/transubstantiation-and-john-6-trogo.html#1001

Context is king: The use of metaphorical language in John 6 is utterly consistent with the use of figurative language in John, in which it abounds, referring to material things which represent spiritual realities, and often contrasting the earthy from the heavenly, and the temporal from the eternal. More copy and paste:

In which gospel Jesus is the "Lamb" of God, and the "Word" made flesh (Jn. 1:14-15, 29)
And in chapter two He is the temple; (John 2:19)
And in chapter 3 we are told one must be "born" anew; (Jn. 3:3)
And with "wind" representing the Spirit; (Jn. 3:8)
And in chapter 4 "drinking" the "living water" that the Lord gives provides eternal life; (John 4:14)
And "meat" is continually living by/obeying the will of the Father; (John 4:34)
And in chapter 5 John the baptizer was a "shining light;" (Jn. 5:35)
And in chapter 6 "eating" and drinking Jesus means receiving and living by every word of God as Jesus did, and whose words are Spirit and life; (Jn. 6:53,57,63)
And in chapter 7 believing on Jesus means having "rivers of living water" flowing out his "belly;" (John 7:38, 39)
And in chapter 8 one can "taste of death;" (Jn. 8:52)
And in chapter 9. Jesus is again "the Light" and those that claimed to see are made "blind;" (Jn. 9:4, 39)
And in chapter 10 Jesus is the "door" and the Good Shepherd over His "sheep," whom He gives His life for; (John 10:7, 11, 14)
And in chapter eleven dead Lazarus is "sleeping;" (Jn. 11:11)
And in chapter 12 Jesus is the the Light and the "arm of the Lord;" (Jn. 12:36)
And in chapter 13 "washing" and being made clean is spiritual; (John 13:10)
And in chapter 14 Jesus is "the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me;" (John 14:6)
And in chapter 15 Jesus is the The True Vine and disciples are "branches" who abide in the Vine as His words abide in them; (Jn. 15:7),
And in chapter 16 the "Comforter" is the Spirit; (Jn. 16:7)
And in chapter 17 the "world" refers to the spiritual system consisting of souls those opposed to God:John 17:14-18)

Thus at least 20 metaphors are used in just 16 chapters, and with effectually believing in the Lord Jesus being the means of regeneration.

20 posted on 10/21/2025 4:20:49 AM PDT by daniel1212 (Turn 2 the Lord Jesus who saves damned+destitute sinners on His acct, believe, b baptized+follow HIM)
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