Posted on 10/13/2025 2:29:26 PM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Daniel had predicted the exact day Israel’s Messiah would arrive (69 weeks of years; 173,880 days after the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem on the Jewish calendar; Dan. 9:25; Neh. 2:1-8).
That day had arrived.
He and His 12 disciples were walking toward Jerusalem.
They were approaching the towns of Bethpage and Bethany on the Mount of Olives (Luke 19:29).
He sent two of the 12 ahead to look for a colt that had never been ridden and to bring it to Him.
They found the colt, took it back to Jesus, cast their garments on the colt, set Jesus on its back, and He rode to the top of the Mount and started down toward Jerusalem.
By this time, a crowd had gathered; some spread their robes in the road for the donkey to walk on, and many began to shout and sing: “Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.”
There were Pharisees in the crowd, and they urged Jesus to rebuke the people.
He responded, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
Then, as He approached Jerusalem, He began to cry over it.
Jesus is God.
He knows the end from the beginning (Isa. 46:9-10).
He knew what was in Israel’s future (in 70 A.D. and for all eternity).
He said, “if thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But now they are hid from thine eyes. For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side. And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee: and they shall not leave within thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation” (Luke 19:42-44).
Jerusalem would be destroyed, the Jews would be killed, including their children, and the Jews would be blinded.
Why? Because thou knewest not the time of their visitation (the time that their Messiah would appear, even though it was prophesied in the Bible Dan. 9:25; Neh. 2:1-8).
This is what I am calling the high cost of prophetic ignorance.
And in case some don’t like the word ignorance, Peter said the Jews delivered Jesus into the hands of Pontius Pilate to be crucified (Acts 3:17).
They had the Word of God (which reveals two comings of the Messiah), but they focused on the Second Coming passages (His coming as a great leader; as the King of kings and Lord of lords) and ignored the first coming passages (His coming as the Christ, the Suffering Servant, the One whose hands and feet would be pierced, etc.).
Ignoring the First Coming resulted in them being blinded for centuries, even today.
But our generation has the Word of God too.
And over and over again and again, our generation has heard that the Second Coming is near, but many of today’s religious leaders are ignoring it.
God knows their heart and thoughts, and I wonder if there will be a cost for willing prophetic ignorance.
Here are some recent events that cause me to believe the end of the age is near.
One, concerning Turkey and its involvement in the Battle of Gog of Magog: it was recently reported that Turkey has sharply escalated its confrontation with Israel.
In response to Israel’s interception of the Hamas-financed Global Sumud Flotilla (39 vessels and about 400 activists, including Greta Thunberg), Turkey accused Israel of an act of terror that endangered innocent civilians, and opened a criminal investigation of Israel.
(FYI: The activists claimed that they were carrying aid to the Palestinians, but that was a lie. There was no aid on the 39 vessels that Israel seized.)
Two, concerning a falling away in the Church at the end of the age: on Oct. 6, 2025, the Prophecy News Watch (PNW) staff posted an excellent article titled “Meet The New Archbishop of Canterbury.
Here is part of what they wrote:
Sarah Mullally, a woman who proudly identifies as a feminist and “pro-choice,” will soon wear the robes once reserved for men who trembled at the Word of God. The headlines celebrate it as a triumph of equality and progress. But beneath the applause lies a tragedy: a church that has traded obedience for approval. When leaders boast of inclusion but refuse repentance, when they celebrate abortion as choice and treat the unborn as expendable, when they affirm lifestyles Scripture calls sin, it’s not progress—it’s apostasy. It is rebellion wearing a clerical collar. It is the collapse of moral courage beneath the weight of cultural pressure. This appointment is not about a woman’s competence; it’s about a church’s compromise. It reveals a spiritual sickness spreading through the body of Christ–where emotion replaces doctrine, and culture replaces conviction. When the Church begins apologizing for biblical truth, it ceases to be a Church. Here is a link to the complete article: https://www.prophecynewswatch.com/article.cfm?recent_news_id=8912
Three, concerning the Israel-Hamas War and peace in the Middle East: on Oct. 4, 2025, Pres. Trump posted the following on Truth Social:
I appreciate that Israel has temporarily stopped the bombing in order to give the hostage release and peace deal a chance to be completed. Hamas must move quickly, or else all bets will be off. I will not tolerate delay, which many think will happen, or any outcome where Gaza poses a threat again. Let’s get this done, fast. Everyone will be treated fairly! Everybody was unified in wanting this war to end and seeing peace in the Middle East, and we’re very close to achieving that. (My opinion: Trump keeps backtracking and putting pressure on Israel. He may be close to achieving a temporary false peace in the Middle East, but according to the Bible, peace will be removed from the earth – Rider of the Red Horse; Rev. 6:3-4 – and there will not be true peace until the Second Coming of Jesus.)
(Update: On Oct. 5, 2025, it was reported that a Hamas official is on the way to a meeting in Egypt to arrange for the release of the hostages. It was also reported that Prime Min. Netanyahu said Trump’s peace plan will not be implemented until all the hostages are in Israel. He added that if the hostages are not released by Trump’s deadline, Israel will resume fighting with full backing from all involved countries.)
(Update: On Oct. 5, 2025, it was reported that Hamas has started collecting the remains of deceased Israeli hostages in case they decide to accept Trump’s plan.)
(Update: On Oct. 6, 2025, it was reported that it may be 2 or 3 days before we know what Hamas intends to do.)
(Update: On Oct. 8, 2025, U.S. and Arab sources said Hamas is making new demands for an end to the war that are not in the original agreement they supposedly accepted. One demand is the deployment of an Arab force in Gaza that can prevent Israel from returning after it withdraws its troops. FYI: The Antichrist will move troops into the Middle East during the Tribulation Period.)
(My opinion: This situation is constantly changing, and I don’t know how it is going to wind up.)
Four, concerning Pres. Trump’s threat to consider an attack on Qatar as an attack on the U.S., on Oct. 3, 2025, Michael Snyder (prophecy teacher and author of End of the American Dream blog) noted that the U.S. has a large military base in Qatar.
Snyder said the U.S. has recently deployed dozens of aircraft to Qatar (something the U.S. did during Israel’s 12-Day War with Iran).
The U.S. used some of the aircraft that were in Qatar to attack Iran’s nuclear facilities during the 12-Day War, and Iran later retaliated by launching a few missiles at the U.S. airbase in Qatar.
Snyder said there is speculation that the U.S. has moved assets to the Middle East in case they are needed for another attack on Iran in the coming weeks.
(My comment: I don’t know how things are going to go down. I know Trump and Netanyahu have said they will not allow Iran to get nuclear weapons, and Iran is trying to get them, so there may be another attack on Iran. But I also know the Battle of Gog of Magog – a Russian, Iranian, Turkey, etc., on Israel – may be looming, so we need to watch these things. Anyway, if the U.S. and Israel think they may have to attack Iran in the coming weeks, but Gog attacks Israel first, end-of-the-age prophecy could really speed up.)
(Update: On Oct. 5, 2025, in a speech before members of the U.S. Navy, Pres. Trump said, “If Iran attempts to restart its nuclear program, then the US will deal with that too.”)
(Update: On Oct. 5, 2025, it was reported that recent intelligence reports suggest that both Washington and Tehran – Iran – are preparing for possible military escalation. The U.S. Air Force has deployed additional aircraft, including refueling planes, to a base in Qatar, while Russian military flights to Iran have increased, reportedly delivering weapons. Regional analysts warn that renewed hostilities could quickly draw in Israel, which participated in the June strikes.)
(My opinion: The increase in Russian military flights could be very significant.)
Five, concerning a system to track and control everyone, on Oct. 6, 2025, it was reported that Switzerland has approved a nationwide digital ID system.
I agree with the Prophecy News Watch (PNW) staff: “Digital identification systems are no longer theories of the future. They’re becoming reality”).
We truly can “see the day approaching” (Heb. 10:25).
(More: On Oct. 6, 2025, it was reported that biometric digital IDs are now required in Viet Nam.)
Six, concerning Hamas’ attitude toward Israel, deceit, and AI: on Oct. 6, 2025, it was reported that Hamas released an AI produced video to celebrate the second anniversary of its attack on Israel (two years ago on Oct. 7, 2023) when they killed more than 1,200 people (including women and children), raped women, took hostages, etc.
Their video:
Calls Oct. 7, 2023, a glorious day. Depicts the Hamas killers and rapists as heroes. Defenders of their religion and homeland. (My opinion: How should society deal with people who view murderers and rapists as heroic defenders of their religion? Willingly ignoring facts like this and allowing that religion to grow and spread in the U.S. could have a high cost.)
Seven, concerning the coming world government: on Oct. 8, 2025, it was reported that:
Under the guise of “human rights,” the U.N.’s controversial “education” bureaucracy is officially demanding that all governments regulate and control home education—if they allow it at all. The agency is even calling for U.N.-approved values and attitudes (cultural diversity, LGBTQ, anti-Semitism, globalism, etc.) to be imposed on children across a wide array of issues, with U.N. control of “education content.” If the U.N. agenda is not stopped, parents and even private schools that refuse to comply with the U.N.’s outrageous demands will be accused of violating the “human rights” of children. (FYI: This is just a fraction of what they intend to do. So, we can see world government approaching, but the Rapture comes first.)
Eight, concerning the Israel-Hamas War, as I write this, there is breaking news that Israel and Hamas have agreed to the first phase of a peace plan, signaling the possible end of the war.
I need to send this article in, and I don’t have a lot of time to read up on what has happened, so here are some of my initial thoughts:
The two sides have only agreed on the FIRST PHASE (just part of Trump’s plan), so it is not over. This is an agreement to POSSIBLY end the war in the future. Israel will withdraw from just PART of Gaza. God will not accept the division of Israel. Every jot and tittle of God’s Word must be fulfilled. Iran hasn’t agreed to anything, and Iran will not abandon its effort to destroy Israel. Militant Muslims are allowed to lie to advance their causes, and it would not be unusual for Hamas to violate the agreement. The destruction of Damascus in one night, the Battle of Gog of Magog, and the Battle of Armageddon must still happen. There still may be a Psa. 83 war before the Battle of Gog of Magog. Jerusalem must still be a burdensome stone for the whole world. Blessed are the peacemakers, but there will be no peace until the Second Coming of Jesus. We can expect a worthless treaty that needs to be strengthened (and this could turn into Dan. 9:24-27). FYI: God does not send anyone to Hell (all of us are born with a sin nature and destined to go to Hell because we sin), but God has provided a way (Jesus) for everyone to go to Heaven (and He is the only way to get there; John 14:6).
Finally, are you Rapture Ready?
If you want to be rapture ready and go to heaven, you must be born again (John 3:3). God loves you, and if you have not done so, sincerely admit that you are a sinner; believe that Jesus is the virgin-born, sinless Son of God, who died for the sins of the world, was buried, and raised from the dead; ask Him to forgive your sins, cleanse you, come into your heart and be your Saviour; then tell someone that you have done this.
End Times Ping
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Maranatha!
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Prophecy Primer Chapter 1: Introduction
The purpose of this book is to introduce readers to the prophetic imminence statements in the New Testament―and then to wrestle with the implications. These passages declare, from a plain reading of the texts (either directly or by implication) that the prophesied events, including the last days/end times and Jesus’ Second Coming, are limited to a first-century fulfillment. Over 100 such declarations are listed in Appendix A. Below are two dozen of these passages:
1. You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes. (Matthew 10:23)
2. The Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds. (Matthew 16:27 YLT)
3. There are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. (Matthew 16:28; cf. Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)
4. This generation will not pass away until all these things take place. (Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)
5. And Jesus said, “I am, and you [Caiaphas, the chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin] will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:62; cf. Matthew 26:64)
6. These are the days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (Luke 21:22)
7. If I [Jesus] want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? (John 21:22)
8. For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day. But this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: “And it shall be in the last days. . . .” (Acts 2:15-17)
9. There is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous. (Acts 24:15 YLT)
10. It is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed. The night is almost gone, and the day is at hand (Romans 13:11-12).
11. The appointed time has grown very short. (1 Corinthians 7:29)
12. The present form of this world is passing away. (1 Corinthians 7:31)
13. Now these things happened to them as an example, but they were written down for our instruction, on whom the end of the ages has come. (1 Corinthians 10:11)
14. I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge the living and dead at his manifestation and his reign. (2 Timothy 4:1 YLT)
15. God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by his Son. (Hebrews 1:1-2)
16. But encouraging one another and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. (Hebrews 10:25)
17. For yet in a very, very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. (Hebrews 10:37)
18. You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. (James 5:8)
19. God chose Him as your ransom long before the world began, but now in these last days He has been revealed for your sake. (1 Peter 1:20)
20. The end of all things is at hand; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. (1 Peter 4:7)
21. It is the last hour. (1 John 2:18)
22. The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants, the things which must shortly take place. (Revelation 1:1; 22:6)
23. The time is near. (Revelation 1:3; 22:10)
24. Surely, I am coming soon. (Revelation 22:7, 12, 20)
There are at least four different ways that Christians deal with these passages:
1. Ignore them.
2. Attempt to explain them away. Thus, these passages don’t really mean what they seem to mean. (Examples: “Soon” really means in the far distant future. “This generation” really means some future generation.)
3. Accept that the New Testament authors, and Jesus too, thought that He would return during the lifetimes of some of their contemporaries―but were simply wrong. This raises an even more serious question: Were they inerrant? If not, on what other matters were they wrong?
4. Accept that the New Testament authors, and Jesus too, thought that He would return during the lifetimes of some of their contemporaries―and they were correct. Thus, at least some of the passages can be understood to mean that Jesus did indeed “come,” not bodily, but rather “in divine judgment” against old covenant Israel for her sins in AD 70―just as YHWH came “in judgment” against nation-states numerous times in the Old Testament.
There are simply too many imminence passages for either approaches 1 or 2 to be serious options. You just cannot ignore or explain away a hundred of these and be faithful to God’s Word. Choice number 3 is likewise problematic if you believe that Jesus and the New Testament writers were without error.
Choice number 4, called the preterist view, is a foreign idea to many modern Christians. But it has been held by many Christians since the early days of Christianity. The large number of imminence statements in the New Testament demands that the preterist view receive a fair hearing. We will focus our attention on this and explore whether preterism holds up under scrutiny.
YOUR COMMENTS ARE WELCOME!
This is Chapter 1 of the book Prophecy Primer by Charles Meek.
~~~ Sinister Boo-Talk: a fable ~~~
Imagine the way “prophecy teachers” will be remembered a few hundred years from now ...
(h/t to Guy Fawkes Day)
Every nation needs its festivals. Especially small nations, three miles in diameter, slowly revolving against the heavens.
On April 1, the Feast of All Fools, Northway Laager opened the doors between the ark segments for the Parade of the Useless Idiots. Johaan and Ayse waited with their ten children for the noise of the approaching festivities. In the distance, the ancient Janissary marching tune Ceddin Dedan stirred the blood. The parade drew closer. A brief pause while the musicians caught their breath, then the Unitarian hymn of military aggression echoed down the long halls. Another pause, then there they were, at the antispinward airlock. A marching band. A float, pulled by six young people wearing dunce caps. A team of acrobats. Another float. Harmonica ensemble. Float. Male chorus. Float.
One by one, a rogue’s gallery of scoundrels rolled past, receiving ritual jeers, and gifts for the community feast after the parade. No bread or wine — these demolishers of civilization had no part in the Table.
The first float bore an effigy of Haggard Haggee, in his tradition-cemented pose: bent over, pants around his knees, oversized buttocks gleaming a fluorescent red, rotating back and forth as he mooned the crowds on either side. An idiot grin on his face counterpointed his inarticulate grumbles, wails, and dirges. “Daddy, why is that strange man showing off his bare behind?” young Emir asked. “Hush. I’ll tell you after the parade,” Johaan answered.
The next float showcased Tugboat Hal. Florid complexion, bristling mustache, four wedding rings on his left hand, this effigy received old books from a rack on his left, stamped new titles on them, then deposited them into a vendor’s cart on his right, while a blizzard of holographed greenbacks swirled around him.
The Haymaker came through next. Timothy hay, of course. He sat awkwardly on a half-chair at a spinning wheel, converting straw into jingling gold coin, smiling, of course, even as his wheel emitted screams, moans, and desperate cries.
The final float bore the emblem of a turtle on a fencepost, and depicted a puppet seated on a black-clad puppeteer’s knee. The puppet wore a Confederate uniform with Union field cap. He jingled a bag of loot with one hand and a well-designed book with the other. Out of his mouth came an unending stream of inane blasphemy. “Rejoice, for the Lord hath decided to take a dive! To throw in the towel! The fight is fixed! The game is rigged! God has ordained the global triumph of evil! Let us hale Satan, the real god of this world!”
At this point, the crowd went wild, and howled the gravest insult this community possessed at the retreating parade: “Sinister boo-talk! Sinister boo-talk! Sinister boo-talk!” The parade passed through the spinward airlock, and the families went home to prepare for the evening feast. And to explain to their children who the effigies represented, and why their vile deeds were still held in loathing memory centuries later.
💯 🙏
Interesting, isn’t it that when Jesus came in His first coming, that Satan had all the people looking for His second coming and so they missed His first one?
And now that things are ramping up for His second coming, Satan has everyone focused on only His first one and downplaying the second one.
You’re weird........
So was today the day the “False Peace “ was signed?
It’s amazing how easily confused people are - and too lazy to dig into the Scriptures.
Willing ignorance.
The Antichrist will reign for the second half of Daniel's 70th week. He will mesmerize the world with false signs and wonders, including a false resurrection. He will seize power over the world by controlling financial transactions through the mark-of-the-beast system.
However, nations will still exist and he will face some resistance on the national level of governments.
He will hunt down and kill those who refuse the mark. He will encourage betrayal, enlisting the help of those who worship him to make this universal, probably offering bounties for betraying friends, family members, and neighbors.
Jesus said His followers will be persecuted for His name and His word. Many professing believers will fall away, grow cold, and hate and betray each other.
When millions of Christians realize they've been misled—told the rapture would spare them from facing the Antichrist and taught a watered-down gospel that requires no repentance or surrender to Jesus as Lord, only a momentary instance of faith (rather than an enduring, working, fruitful faith) or the “sinner's prayer”—they will fall away.
Yes, I know that faith and calling on the Lord are the starting point, but these require an understanding of what sin and salvation mean. In the foundational parable of the sower, Jesus explained that the sown Gospel seed is only effectual for salvation where it bears fruit. Failure to understand the call to repentance, and the necessity to abide in Christ to overcome trials and temptations cause many of those who at first seem likely to have obtained salvation to later fall away to perdition.
A saving Gospel message calls people to be grieved over our sins and turn from them, embracing the free gift of salvation Christ purchased with His blood. It calls to an enduring faith such that believers understand that we MUST abide in Christ to be sustained through inevitable trials and temptations, and bear fruit unto salvation.
1 Corinthians 15:1 NKJV
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Matthew 13:18-23 NKJV
Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Yes I know you don’t believe in the Harpazo.
You have made that point over and over again.
Just because you troll my threads and cherry pick verses to suit your eschatology doesn’t make your conclusions “fact”.
Some of us have studied this for decades.
We are told to look towards our blessed hope. His salvation!
His assurances.
What hope does your view provide?
Based on what in Scripture?
Just another dude who cannot differentiate wrath from tribulation?
Sorry… not buying your version of death to His Church. It goes totally against God’s Holy Character.
Revelation 3:10
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
You either believe it or not.
Incorrect. I believe in the rapture. I just recognize that it will happen at the beginning of the Day of the Lord / Second Coming / End. And the Day of the Lord follows the Great Tribulation. And the Great Tribulation begins at the abomination of desolation. And the abomination of desolation comes 3.5 years into Daniel's 70th week.
“Some of us have studied this for decades.”
Including me.
“We are told to look towards our blessed hope. His salvation! His assurances.
What hope does your view provide?
Based on what in Scripture?”
Here are some of the relevant passages:
Titus 2:11-14 NKJV
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
Romans 8:18, 23-25, & 35-36 NKJV
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us...
Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance...
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
1 Thessalonians 1:6 & 10 NKJV
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, [so that...you turned to God, to]...
wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1 John 3:2-3 NKJV
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Revelation 7:16-17 NKJV
They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
Revelation 21:4 NKJV
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
The blessed hope includes salvation from our sins and God's wrath, our imputed righteousness, our sanctification, and culminates in our glorification when Christ returns. This includes receiving new bodies, and pain and sorrow being forever banished. It is a purifying hope. Our helmet of salvation. It is a motivating and encouraging hope that energizes us to endure the promised persecutions, tribulations, and temptations.
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 NKJV
No one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NKJV
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
“Just another dude who cannot differentiate wrath from tribulation?”
You tell me if the following example of suffering, presumably during Daniel's 70th week(I assume we agree on that much), is an example of tribulation or God's wrath:
Matthew 24:9-10 NKJV
Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another.
Revelation 6:9-10 NKJV
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Whoever these believers are, their persecution is not God's wrath on them. And where is His wrath on the persecutors? They are asking why it hasn't come yet. When does it come? Later:
Revelation 16:6 NKJV
For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets,
And You have given them blood to drink.
For it is their just due.
“Sorry… not buying your version of death to His Church. It goes totally against God's Holy Character.”
Peter had a similarly strong conviction about why it would go against God's character for Christ to have to suffer:
Matthew 16:21-23 NKJV
From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
I believe Satan knows the Bible better than most of us, and he knows he will be given authority to persecute the saints during Daniel's 70th week, and he knows this will be most effective when those who seek to follow Christ have a faulty foundation in their understanding of the Gospel and of prophetic events. What did Christ teach would happen to those who received the Gospel but were not prepared for tribulation and temptation?
Matthew 13:18-23 NKJV
Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See what happened to those who received the word but were not ready for persecutions and tribulation? Contrast this with the Thessalonians who “received the word in much affliction” and knew we are “appointed” to endure these things. (But we are not appointed to experience God's wrath.)
“You either believe [’I will also keep you from the hour of trial’] or you do not.”
Those who endure beforehand will be kept. Those who watch and pray will escape. But the way out is the way through. Jesus prayed in John 17:15 for His own that we would be kept (tērēsēs) from evil (ponērou) without taking us out of the world.
God's servants, if not enduring, praying, and watching, but being disobedient, will be cast into the Great Tribulation:
Revelation 2:20-22 NKJV
Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.
Who is cast into the tribulation? Those who commit adultery with Jezebel. Who did this? God's servants!
How about those who were told to expect persecution and tribulation?
Revelation 2:10 NKJV
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Christ gave us 6 signs of His coming. The Harpazo rapture, is also a sign in the heavens, that announce the End / Day of the Lord. These are given in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24–25, Mark 13, and Luke 21. And these same signs are parallel to the 6 seal judgments in Revelation 6.
The signs in the Heavens (including cataclysmic meteor showers and a simultaneous solar and lunar eclipse) come “immediately after” the Great Tribulation, then Christ appears, and the elect are raptured out.
So, where in the Olivet Discourse are the trumpet and bowl judgments?
Why does Joel place the simultaneous solar and lunar eclipse BEFORE the Day of the Lord (see Acts 2), when Christ places it AFTER the Great Tribulation (see Matthew 24)?
Why does Paul say the Day of the Lord will not come until AFTER the Antichrist is revealed at the abomination of desolation (see 2 Thessalonians 2)?
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 NKJV
No one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this. For, in fact, we told you before when we were with you that we would suffer tribulation, just as it happened, and you know.
1 Peter 1:3-5 NKJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
2 Peter 1:3-4 NKJV
His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
1 John 5:4-5 NKJV
For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
John 7:17 NKJV
If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority.
John 8:31-32 NKJV
Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, "If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
John 14:6 NKJV
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
1 John 2:26-27 NKJV
These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.
Deuteronomy 31:6 NKJV
Be strong and of good courage, do not fear nor be afraid of them; for the Lord your God, He is the One who goes with you. He will not leave you nor forsake you.
2 Chronicles 20:15 & 17 excerpted NKJV
Thus says the Lord to you: "Do not be afraid nor dismayed because of this great multitude, for the battle is not yours, but God’s... stand still and see the salvation of the Lord, who is with you... Do not fear or be dismayed... for the Lord is with you.”
Psalm 140:7 NKJV
O God the Lord, the strength of my salvation,
You have covered my head in the day of battle.
Psalm 33:18-19 NKJV
Behold, the eye of the Lord is on those who fear Him,
On those who hope in His mercy,
To deliver their soul from death,
And to keep them alive in famine.
Psalm 37:18-19 NKJV
The Lord knows the days of the upright,
And their inheritance shall be forever.
They shall not be ashamed in the evil time,
And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
Psalm 91:2-7 NKJV
I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
Psalm 27:10 NKJV
When my father and my mother forsake me,
Then the Lord will take care of me.
Luke 21:16-18 NKJV
You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But not a hair of your head shall be lost.
Hebrews 12:1-3 NKJV
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
1 Peter 4:1-2 NKJV
Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.
Revelation 2:10 NKJV
Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Psalm 46:1-3 NKJV
God is our refuge and strength,
A very present help in trouble.
Therefore we will not fear,
Even though the earth be removed,
And though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
Though its waters roar and be troubled,
Though the mountains shake with its swelling.
Isaiah 43:2 NKJV
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you.
When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned,
Nor shall the flame scorch you.
Matthew 24:35 NKJV
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
Psalm 55:22 NKJV
Cast your burden on the Lord,
And He shall sustain you;
He shall never permit the righteous to be moved.
Luke 21:36 NKJV
Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.
Romans 8:35-39 NKJV
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 2:11-14 NKJV
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1 Thessalonians 1:6 & 10 NKJV
And you became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Spirit, [so that...you turned to God, to]...
wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:8-10 NKJV
But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
1 John 3:2-3 NKJV
Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Revelation 3:10 NKJV
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Revelation 7:16-17 NKJV
They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.
Revelation 21:4 NKJV
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.
John 16:33 NKJV
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.Revelation 22:12 NKJV
And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.
I like many Christians am of the belief that we won’t face the A/C - we simply disagree on the timing of the Harpazo.
I agree with you on many many things - but not on this. And BTW, that shouldn’t be a big issue at all.
10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
(We won’t dwell on the Earth during this time).
“Earth Dwellers” is used 11 times in Revelation and is a designation for persistent unbelievers during the Tribulation.
https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1045&context=pretrib_arch
We disagree...
See you in the clouds bro!
I appreciate you, bro. I'm glad that you post frequently to remind everyone of the urgency of watching for Christ's return.
How we are kept from the hour of trial is less important than taking heed to the condition that we must “persevere”.
Likewise, how we “escape all these things” is less important than taking heed to the condition that we must “watch and pray always”.
“(We won't dwell on the Earth during this time).
‘Earth Dwellers’ is used 11 times in Revelation and is a designation for persistent unbelievers during the Tribulation.”
I reread the paper you provided the link for, and I generally agree with the idea. However, rather than proving a pretrib view, it merely harmonizes a pretrib view, which is much different. The author admits there are those who, during the “tribulation” period, are on the earth but do not fall into the category labeled “earth-dweller”. Why? Because they either are already believers or are brought to repentance during this time.
So, it is a no true Scotsman argument because it attempts to protect a generalization from being falsified by spuriously excluding counterexamples. So, it's ok that those who are slain for the word of God are on the earth and not be unbelievers, or the two witnesses, or those who give glory to God when an earthquake follows the resurrection of the two witnesses. But it is impossible for those martyred for the word of God to be members of the church? The only reason that can be given is that this would not support the foregone conclusion that the church is in Heaven throughout the seal, trumpet, and bowl judgments. Why? "Because I say so" doesn't cut it.
A systematic analysis of the sequence of events in Daniel's seventieth week can only lead to the conclusion that the Day of wrath comes after the six signs of Christ's coming which are identical to the first six seal judgments. This is not merely finding a way to harmonize the passages with prewrath views. But it traces an inevitable path of the sequence of events to the only possible conclusion:
The rapture, which happens when Christ comes again and the Day of the Lord commences, follows the sixth sign/sixth seal signs in the Heavens.
If you cannot accept this, at least accept that before the rapture the Church may experience unprecedented, worldwide persecution. It is happening now in some places. And it is required that followers of Christ persevere through this persecution.
What matters in our eschatological views is the practical application of them, as we ask the question Peter writes: "What manner of persons ought you to be?"
2 Peter 3:10-14 NKJV
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless. “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.”
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