What does it mean judgment begins at the house of God?

Derek Prince ^

[CondoleezzaProtege]

Jesus told the Jews of His day that their judgment would be much more severe than that of Sodom and Gomorrah, because they had received a much greater revelation of the truth (Matthew 11:20-24).

The same applies to America in this century. No other nation has had the same access to the Word of God that has been granted to the American people…Our judgment for rejecting it will be correspondingly severe. Many Christians do not realize that God's judgment does not begin with the people of the world, but with the people of God. Peter told the Christians of his day:

“For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?” (1 Peter 4:17)

These words apply equally to the church in America today. Of all the sins that could be charged against the contemporary church, it is sufficient to focus on two: materialism and compromise. In Luke 17:26-30 Jesus predicted that the period before His return would be like the days of Noah and Lot. He mentioned specifically eight activities characteristic of those days: eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage, buying, selling, building, planting. Yet there is nothing specifically sinful in any of these activities. What, then, was the problem?

The problem was materialism. The people of those days had become so engrossed in these materialistic activities that they were unaware of the impending judgment of God on their carnal lifestyle. When judgment came, they were totally unprepared. The same is true today of most professing Christians in America…

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

An interesting, complicated website. Looking for the "national office" for Derek Prince, one finds only a PO Box in Charlotte, Nc [ sic ] -- North Carolina.

One finds. among ither things:

DEREK PRINCE MINISTRIES, INC. is a North Carolina Domestic Non-Profit Corporation filed on January 10, 2024. The company's filing status is listed as Current-Active and its File Number is 2768274.

The Registered Agent on file for this company is Alongi, Christine and is located at 3930 Rose Lake Dr, Charlotte, NC 28217-2836. The company's principal address is 3930 Rose Lake Dr, Charlotte, NC 28217-2836 and its mailing address is 3930 Rose Lake Dr, Charlotte, NC 28217-2836.

Source: DEREK PRINCE MINISTRIES, INC. "Products/Services: Architectural services"

Seems the site has lots of requests for donations. To this one and a half year old "architectural services" ministry, according to the registration.

More on this:

"In May of 1971, Derek Prince officially began Derek Prince Publications in the garden house of his property in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. At Derek's invitation, a year later in 1972, his son-in-law David Selby, the husband of his daughter, Anna (one of Derek and Lydia's nine adopted daughters) moved to Fort Lauderdale from Canada and began to help carry out the work. In the next few years, the ministry expanded, necessitating a number of moves of its location in the Fort Lauderdale area. In 1990, Derek Prince Publications officially became Derek Prince Ministries and in 1993, received its official 501(c)(3) charitable organization status. In 1994, the entire DPM-USA operation was moved to Charlotte, North Carolina. In 2006, after 35 years of service, David Selby transitioned to International Director and Dick Leggatt was welcomed as the new President of DPM-USA."

Source: Ministry Watch Summary of organization

Who is Derek Prince? (1915-2003)

Source: Source: Wiki bio with references

It is interesting how many ministries are named after their "ministers," in this case a Pentecostal who passed away in 2003. Nice gig for a current president paid so well these days.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

The verse just struck me recently so I looked it up and his explanation was the best. But don’t know about his ministries otherwise.

[tired&retired]

We must remember that Jesus told us several times that He did not come to judge, but to save.

John 12:47, where He says, “I did not come to judge the world but to save the world.”

John 3:17: This verse reinforces the message, saying, “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.”

I see this “judgement” as a natural consequence of the status of our soul. It’s like being thrown in the water if we don’t know how to swim. We drown. Not as a judgement, but a natural consequence.

If we carry sin in our soul, the weight of the sin will hold us down and we will perish, like a dense object that is placed in the high frequency of a microwave, our soul will heat up and burn as a result of our impurities. It is a purifying fire.

According to the Roman court records, when Justin Martyr was burned at the stake, the fire did not harm him. They had to pull him out of the fire and stab him to kill him.

Just as the hot furnace did not harm Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from Daniel 3. The hot furnace did not kill them because God intervened and sent an angel to protect them, allowing them to emerge unharmed.

Rom 12:20 Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.” Being kind to our enemies is like “heaping coals of fire on their head” in that it will lead them to repentance, pictured by the purifying power of fire.

The fire Jesus refers to has a dual nature:

Luke 12:49 Not Peace but Division
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Positive Aspects: It represents purification, enlightenment, and the presence of God’s love.

The Holy Spirit also cleanses our soul of sin. It’s the reason why the one unforgivable sin in the NT is to reject the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:15, it states that if a person’s work is burned up, they will suffer loss, but they themselves will be saved, as if escaping through flames.

When I’m doing exorcisms, it is the fire of the Holy Spirit and Jesus within me that the dark souls are afraid of. They can’t come close to it. They scream and yell, trying to get away from the Light of the Living Fire.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "The verse just struck me recently so I looked it up and his explanation was the best. But don't know about his ministries otherwise."

Dear "Protege," no aspersions intended to you. I am simply fascinated how many "donate to MY ministry" sites there are these days, which offer many opportunities to 'click and donate' but almost no opportunity to find out who they actually are.

Being the curious geezer, I tend to look behind the curtain, Toto-like. So many wizards....

I highly admired the old Billy Graham work (but not the expensive, slick and fattened follow-ons) as the old Bishop Fulton J. Sheen sermons, though of differing denominational brand names, so to speak. One may find wonderful messages reinforcing the good and greater message, but somehow "donate online" front-and-center seems the message so many offer today.

Best wishes, and thanks for the reply.

[Cold Heart]

Thanks. His second coming will be different from the first though.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

“judge not” is in keeping with the spirit of grace we must extend to others precisely because judgment begins first with US. the measure we use against others, will be used against US first. WE are held accountable, so we should not be pointing fingers at those we deem “more evil.”

[CondoleezzaProtege]

Rephrasing:

The reason why “judgment begins first with the house of God” should encourage the grace we extend to others is because it humbles us to focus on the logs in our own eyes, instead of pointing fingers at the specks in others.

When Jesus talked about the sin that will be met with at his second coming, he does NOT mention homosexuality, abortion, and the like. Rather, he highlights the following:

“eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage, buying, selling, building, planting.”

^ Derek Prince rightfully points out, that the great sin of the American Church is complacent materialism.

[tired&retired]

Absolutely. Jesus’s first coming was to save. His second coming brings the fire.

[Ezekiel]

Don't mind me, you won't end up on a ping list. 🙂

The projection is strong with this Prince. Never heard of him, but the formula is familiar: preach the bad news. Some like to frighten and/or passively threaten people something fierce, and then they offer their token "hand up".

Few ever catch on that it's the classic beatdown tactic of the serial manipulator and abuser. The wolves are so kind and helpful to the sheep they just mauled for sport.

"Ask God to place His finger on the sins you need to confess. He will do it with unerring accuracy, probably bringing to light sins which you never recognized!"

Judgment Begins at God's House

...God judges us according to the measure of light we have received.

These bad news preachers of darkness are going to wish that they hadn't spent their days pointing out the obvious negatives all-day-every-day, and acting like it's a mission from God to warn the folks.

Epic FAIL.

Who *doesn't* know that America is filled with evil? Like pigeons in the plaza. There's no skill involved in "hunting" ubiquitous evil down and holding up the carcase for display.

In this craft they have their easy money and godly reputations, because if it bleeds it leads.

Who's their leader -- Establishment Jesus, the "Jesus" that Jesus warned everyone about.

"Preach the GOOD News" ~ Jesus of Nazareth

It's not complicated. Live on the Sunnyside, the side of God. The side of light and hope. A lot of good actually gets accomplished that way. Some days it can take a little effort to find something good because it's been covered by all the muck, but the "Good News Challenge" is no longer a challenge when it becomes the daily way.

The enemy typically denigrates with accusations about having one's head in the sand (projection), when the reality is that it's the grand view and victory from the heavens.

Jesus predicted that the period before His return would be like the days of Noah and Lot. He mentioned specifically eight activities characteristic of those days: eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage, buying, selling, building, planting. Yet there is nothing specifically sinful in any of these activities. What, then, was the problem?

Lack of situational awareness. Distracted by everything else that's more important than getting to know God (He's a funny guy. He brews the holy tongue!). Caught off-guard, Your Surprise is Waiting:

"Three things come unexpectedly to a person: Moshiach, a found object, and a scorpion." -- (Sanhedrin 97a) [LINK]

As American Christians, we are confronted by a grim, undeniable fact: our nation has come under the judgment of God. For this there are many reasons, but they can be summed up in one simple statement: We have committed the sin for which Esau was rejected - we have despised our birthright (Hebrews 12:15-17).

>>>

Yet within the church there is still a remnant of sincere, devoted followers of Jesus.

(They operate under the radar of the eagle-eyed sin-sniffers.)

Romans 9

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

While the religious worlds profit by pointing fingers at those other people, God has worked a trumpy little Plan outside of the grim, paralyzing messaging from corrupted, self-blinded leaders of the blind.

Apologetics is big business. If the Messiah fell in lockstep with the settled doctrines, he'd never able to recognize himself. How's he going to roll up his sleeves and gather together his countless volunteers to run this great event, if he doesn't even know who he is?

His visage is so marred, he no longer resembles a man...

... which is convenient for the status quo experts who have worked over his identifying characteristics so badly that nobody gonna recognize him.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing the problem.

A fresh air and sunshine neighborhood Fun Run would be sore punishment for those glued securely to their lofty high chairs wailing at the slow servants, beating their spoons on the tray, flinging slop, and stuffing Cheerios in their ears and straws up their noses.

Other than that, they're all cuddly-wuddly. Until the next trigger.

"Don't make me come down there." ~ God

[tired&retired]

Very true.

When I do Forgiveness workshops, I show that our judgement of others actually attaches our soul to theirs and gives the other person control over us. Forgiveness sets us free.

After demonstrating this, I ask the person if they would like to “Forgive” the person who wronged them. When they say “Yes,” I then ask if they would like to forgive themselves too. Often this is much harder than forgiving others.

When they do forgive themselves, they often start crying as the release is so great.

I have found that many people as children self imposed guilt, often for things involving their parents actions or others that was not the child’s fault, such as the parents fighting, arguing, or divorcing.

The guilt from carrying this “self judgement” actually causes an emotional subconsciousness reversal of the child’s reward punishment system where they are negatively stimulated by praise and positively stimulated by criticism or punishment.

They carry this reversal throughout their life, self sabotaging their success, being attracted toward bad relationships, and very often causing their immune system to attack itself with auto immune diseases such as MS and cancer.

The hardest part of this is that they feel undeserving of Love and block receiving Love from others and also God.

That’s why self forgiveness is critically important as it allows a person to receive God’s unconditional Love.

The transformations in people’s loves is astonishing. It’s God’s Love that heals them, once they are willing to receive it.

[tired&retired]

“complacent materialism”

It goes far beyond that. It is any attachment that forms an individual ego identity that blocks us from perceiving and experiencing god. It could be material attachments, or intangible such as an identity where we own our knowledge as a possession. By dying daily, we let go of these attachments.

The ego identity acts as a mirror bubble in our soul that surrounds our physical bodies. It reflects our perception back at ourselves like a mirror and blocks us from perceiving beyond ourselves.

When I’m with people as they are dying, when the ego diminishes, often with a severe agitation and a fight, the person than can begin to see and hear their loved ones who crossed over previously. It allows consciousness to “transcend” self. It makes it much easier for the person to move on into Heaven.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

--- "Don't mind me, you won't end up on a ping list. 🙂"

Okay, Mister, now yer in fer it! Also smiling emojis are loaded into the barrel of my double-action revolver!

--- "Apologetics is big business."

Yup. BIG and stuffed to the gills will "subscribe to my newsletter" and donate links and more.

--- "A fresh air and sunshine neighborhood Fun Run would be sore punishment for those glued securely to their lofty high chairs wailing at the slow servants, beating their spoons on the tray, flinging slop, and stuffing Cheerios in their ears and straws up their noses."

Okay, Ezekiel, now you're making me laugh. But I will NOT spit up the iced tea on my keyboard....

I had to look this up because my old memory is weary, but....

From the Hebrew name יְחֶזְקֵאל (Yeḥezqel) meaning "God will strengthen", from the roots חָזַק (ḥazaq) meaning "to strengthen" and אֵל (ʾel) meaning "God".

Stay strong. In part strength suggests keeping up one's guard and Shield, as well as wielding weapons of God.

Best wishes, Mister Strength from God.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

Totally. You’re right to point it out and how off-putting it is. 🫤That’s why despite my Evangelical tendencies, I do appreciate the lack of commercialism present in the treasury of Catholic resources which have stood the test of time: think works by St Augustine and the like.

But with regard to modern America, Pastor Prince made some apt points.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

Yes it’s so important to read verses about judgment within the entire context of God’s redemptive framework. The verses about judgment should bring us comfort — especially to those who have been the furthest away from the institutional dimension of Christianity. (unchurched)

Why? Because “the household of God” warning reminds us that no one sin is greater than the next, no one church leader is holier than thou, the first will be last, the last will be first. And if anything, it’s the religious, the religious hypocrites who have the most to be concerned about spiritually — not the tax collectors and hookers.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

-— “But with regard to modern America, Pastor Prince made some apt points.

The web page shows this was from 1993. Derek Prince passed away in 2003. This was republishing a 38-year old article. The request for donations are very much “today.” And the current head of the ministry collects circa $170K a year for a website. Business is business.

[CondoleezzaProtege]

There is a bit of hypocrisy implicit in the ministry’s posthumous profiting…given that the entire point of Prince’s sermon is highlighting the complacent materialism of the American church.

[Worldtraveler once upon a time]

Hi. No argument from me. As he said in 1993, "The problem was materialism. "

A search for definitions is most revealing, and I shall leave it to others. I've read through a number just now. One only need to add a single adjective, and the term becomes "dialectical materialism."

I have a dear cousin and retired LEO. His circle send him all sorts of things, usually of an alarming nature. He asks me to be his quiet partner, and so I look through them for and with him. So many quasi-religious themed messages are chock full of "click" and "subscribe" and "donate."

I tracked down one SET -- yes, set. All came back to two guys in Florida operating bundles of "religious" and "conservative" sites, which were basically frauds and phishing. While the officials "liberal" do that as a matter of course (ActBlue and the like), "conservatives" have those who would happily live well from the unsuspecting who....

"...click" and "subscribe" and "donate."

Skepticism is warranted, especially on the internet.

Job 1 and Matthew 13 tell that God speaks to Satan. I often refer back especially to Job for that first chapter says much. And as to materialism, what is it Jesus is offered?

"...trust in God, not the things of this world..." Said by Isaiah before Derek Prince. But both of them before Dick Leggatt and Philip Wyns. Whose oft-repeated web-message is "donate."

Trust.

[kawhill]

“And when I thought of worldly things,
I might miss come tomorrow,
I thought of you, and when I did,
My heart was filled with sorrow.

But when I walked through heaven’s gates,
I felt so much at home
When God looked down and smiled at me,
From His great golden throne.

He said, “This is eternity,
And all I’ve promised you.”
Today your life on earth is past,
But here life starts anew.

I promise no tomorrow,
But today will always last,
And since each day’s the same way
There’s no longing for the past.

You have been so faithful,
So trusting and so true.
Though there were times
You did some things
You knew you shouldn’t do.

But you have been forgiven
And now at last you’re free.
So won’t you come and take my hand
And share my life with me?

So when tomorrow starts without me,
Don’t think we’re far apart,
For every time you think of me,
I’m right here, in your heart.

David Romano

[Ezekiel]

Thanks for the encouraging feedback.

So many positive waves!

Can you believe the toxic sludge that's spread all over in the name of Abraham's God?

Calling it "HAZMAT" is putting it mildly. Burns the eyes, the throat, the lungs. Could cause vomiting, even death. (I'm going by memory here.)

Anyway, to explain a little about that ancient comparision regarding the arrival of the Messiah. Whether he'll be a delightful "find", or a dreadful scorpion [sting] depends on perspective, one's spiritual place.

I'll offer that it's as much a test to see who can take a good-natured joke. Nobody likes to be proven wrong, much less horribly wrong. It's all been in good fun, though.

The word "find' is a metzi'a [מְצִיאָה], lit. something found, from this root verb:

Psalms 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

More here:

מְצִיאָה

finding, discovery; bargain, good deal (slang)

It's usage is much like how we use "find" (noun) in English; e.g. "What a find!" -- that wonderful surprise clearance item that we didn't need, and weren't looking for at the time, but there it was!

Or the can't-live-without lost item that suddenly appears where we last left it, thinking all hope was lost. Car keys, remote, wallet, beer goggles..

You get the idea.

That's why the whole "your surprise is waiting"/"coming soon" signage in the major shopping areas is particularly telling, and amusing.

Remember Gene Rayburn? Because it's like he came back from the dead for this promo image:

It's like that. 🤣

BTW, everybody knows that the Levites were put in change of all things Temple.

The Levity -- it's a higher calling.

(Few find it.)