Posted on 03/19/2024 5:45:28 PM PDT by grumpa
Summary. The Israel of God is no longer fleshly, natural Israel, but rather all believers in Jesus―along with a remnant of Godly believers of old. Jesus fulfilled all of the promises to Old Covenant Israel (Luke 1:67-79; 2 Corinthians 1:20). “Not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel” (Romans 9:5-8). The church extends beyond natural Israel to include Gentiles (Luke 2:32; Acts 9:15; 11:1, 18; Romans 11:11-32; Galatians 3:6-9, 25-29). This is not “replacement theology, but rather “inclusion theology.” Here is a sampling of passages about this:
Galatians 6:14-16. In the context of the rest of Galatians, Paul refers to the “ISRAEL OF GOD” as those who walk according to the Spirit—by faith in Jesus Christ (and specifically not by works of the Jewish Old Covenant Law, including circumcision).
Galatians 4:21-31. Physical Jerusalem, that is, the old covenant, is cast out making way for the New Spiritual Jerusalem (“the Jerusalem above”)—the new children of the promise.
Hebrews 12:22-24. Christians of the first century had already arrived at the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem—through Jesus, the mediator of the new covenant.
Matthew 3:7-11. John the Baptist tells the Pharisees and Sadducees not to count on their physical descent. Indeed, they are about to be cut down in the wrath about to come (AD 70).
Matthew 21:18-19. Jesus curses the fig tree, an Old Testament symbol for Old Covenant Israel (Jeremiah 24; Hosea 9:10; Luke 13:6-9), and the fig tree withered away forever.
Matthew 21:33-45. Parable of the Tenants. Jesus tells the Jews that the kingdom is being taken away from them and given to another group, obviously the church.
Matthew 22:1-4. The Parable of the Wedding Feast. It was obviously the Jews who were invited to the wedding, but their refusal to accept Christ as Messiah would lead to their demise—“destroyed those murderers and burned their city.” (Matthew 23, the next chapter, details why the Jews were the object of Jesus’ wrath. Not only were they exceedingly sinful, but also refused to accept Him as Savior.)
John 1:12-13. The children of God are believers, and not by blood.
John 8:31-47. Jesus explains to the Jews of his day that they are not truly offspring of Abraham, but rather are offspring of the devil.
Romans 2:28-29. “For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not the letter.”
Romans 9:5-8. Paul taught that not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel (“FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHO ARE ISRAEL”), and not all are children of Abraham. It is not the children of the flesh (i.e. their ethnicity) who are children of God (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:16.)
Romans 11:5, 11-32. Branches (of Israel) were broken off and Gentiles grafted in by faith. Whoever accepted Christ, both Gentiles and a remnant of Jews are saved (11:5).
Galatians 3:6-9, 25-29. Heirs to the promise, i.e. the true sons of Abraham, comes from faith in Christ, not physical descent.
Ephesians 2:11-3:13. Gentiles are no longer aliens but are fellow citizens in a new dwelling place, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets (cf. Revelation 21:14).
Ephesians 2:15-16. Jews and Gentiles became “one new man in place of two,” thus “one body.”
Philippians 3:3. The church is the real “circumcision.” Circumcision is the special sign of God’s covenant with Abraham and Israel (Genesis 17:10, 13), so the Christian church has become God’s covenantal people.
Colossians 2:6-3:17. Paul explains in this passage that physical circumcision had been replaced by spiritual circumcision, thus spiritual Israel—believers being made spiritually alive IN CHRIST. (See also Philippians 3:3).
Hebrews 8:5-13. The Old Covenant was being replaced by a New Covenant as predicted in the Old Testament (Jeremiah 31:31-34; etc.)
James 1:1; 2:1. The twelve tribes of Israel had become believers in Christ.
1 Peter 2:4-10. The new chosen race is the Christian church (building motif).
Revelation 2:9; 3:9. There are those who say they are Jews, but are really are a “synagogue of Satan.”
Revelation 19:7, 21:2, 9-27. The New Jerusalem is the bride of Christ, the church—which is built on the foundation of the apostles (ref. Ephesians 2:20).
Conclusions. This is about the changing of the covenants. Israel’s covenant with God was contingent on obedience (Deuteronomy 28-32)! Throughout the Bible, Israel’s relationship with God is portrayed as a marriage (Isaiah 54:5; 62:4; Jeremiah 2:2; 3:14, 20; 31:31-34; Ezekiel 16:8, 32, 38; Hosea 2:2, 7, 16; Malachi 2:14). Whenever Israel was unfaithful, she is characterized as a harlot or adulterer (Deuteronomy 31:16-18; Isaiah 1:21; Jeremiah 2:20; 3:6-9; Ezekiel 6:8-9; 16:15, 26, 28; Hosea 1:2; 6:10; 9:1). The central theme of Revelation is a story of two women—the harlot Babylon who is judged/divorced (Revelation 17:1, 5, 15; 18:9, 21; 19:2) and God’s new bride the New Jerusalem (Revelation 19:7; 21:2, 9). The faithless harlot is apostate Old Covenant Israel. The new bride is the Christian church, the wife of the Lamb, the New Jerusalem (Revelation 3:12; 19:7; 21:2, 9-27). Compare to the Parable of the Wedding Feast in Matthew 22:1-14, as well as such passages as John 3:29; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:25-27.
The notion that Israel is separate from the church, and that Israel will re-emerge as pre-eminent among nations is not supported by the texts.
Has nothing to do with legalism. Has everything to do with this: (Hebrews 10)
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
....And again, THE LORD SHALL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE.
OSAS/OJAJ is a lie. RAVI ZACHARIAS was the golden poster boy of that lie.
Elsie, do you know of ANY bible that includes Job in the first 5 books? I’m looking through mine right now. Nope, don’t see it. Strange.
——>There are some through their ignorance...
The ignorance is in believing that a committed Christian, claiming the SHED BLOOD OF THE COVENANT/grace, AND THEN willfully continuing in and perpetuating a life of sin (continued lawlessness) will be welcomed by Jesus Christ, with open arms, at the gates of the New Jerusalem.
Obedience is where “the rubber meets the road”.
OSAS/OJAJ is none other than the false doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which God hates.
Hebrews 10 is addressed to the entire but exclusive body of humans to which the Mosaic/Davidic Covenant applied up to the moment that God Incarnate pronounced at the moment of His physical death "Tetelestai:" (My work on earth to meet Jehovah's righteous demands is finished! It is done!), and the Torah's law system was abolished.
It was those Hebrews of the Apostles' time , the Jews who were raised in the religious system purportedly governed by the Mosaic law, who upon the death, resurrection, and ascension of the Lord Jesus Messiah/Christ, they now needed to be saved by faith alone in Christ as their Savior and Eternal High Priest, not by the blood of bulls and goats and grain offerings, etc.
The passage you have based this current point on (Heb. 10:29) applies only to the Hebrews of that time who had to make the decision to pledge their allegiance to the Lamb of Calvary and leave the stifling, mis-administered religion of offering of sacrifices that could NEVER take away and utterly remove their own sins and guilt.
This epistle to the dispersed Hebrews had NOTHING to do with the Gentiles of that day or this, so you cannot use it for the proof of your false you-can-lose-your-salvation doctrine to today's Christ-seeking audience.
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I write this, philsworld, not to convince you that your way of thinking is just plain wrong, because I know that I can do that.
Only God in the Holy Spirit now present in the temporal sphere, Whose task is to convict you of your sin, of Jesus' righteousness POSSESSED by those who are really liberated from sin, and that God is judging you even now for your unrelieved contention against His Plan of Salvation and its pursuant holiness, going forward.
No, I am writing this to show that there are faithful servants of The Christ who are contending for The Faith according to /his Scriptural commandment (Jude verse 3), and how that hedge of defense might be lifted up.
One is quite aware that with your false plan of salvation, Scripture says that you, philsworld, cannot receive the deep things of the Spirit of God, because they seem foolish to you, neither can you understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. And it does not seem that you have attained to that state to have the spiritual faculty for it.
But anyone who has been regenerated by full confidence in the saving power, ability, and desire of our Redeemer -- that person who reads what I have written can understand, affirm, and be encouraged by what I have said to you. Otherwise, debating with you is a waste of time.
An OSAS child of God freely and willingly observes God's commandments because doing so pleases Him and results in many rewards, knowing that this activity is NEVER salvific in nature, but brings delight in one'ss fellowship with his/her Heavenly Father and as a servant of the Master.
——>Don’t be an ass.
Not language becoming of a person claiming to be a Christian.
——>An OSAS child of God freely and willingly observes God’s commandments because doing so pleases Him and results in many rewards, knowing that this activity is NEVER salvific in nature, but brings delight in one’ss fellowship with his/her Heavenly Father and as a servant of the Master.
I’m sure these OSAS/OJAJ people thought the same as you do: (By the way, don’t forget to add OJAJ. You said it, so be proud)
Matthew 7:
22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’.
Your total ignorance of what OSAS means is thus displayed.
I already demonstrated that Beloved John throughout his first epistle to the disciples that he has led to salvation unflinchingly lectures to them exactly the principle that one who lives a life of habitually and willingly continues a life of perpetuating and multiplying the condemnation under which he/she entered the world, regardless of one's profession of having received the gracious gift of salvation, is not actually in possession of that precious unmerited blessing.
That person, according to Paul and to John, does not fit the conditions that would define OSAS. My counsel to you and anyone I reach out to, is to at least read Romans 6 with comprehension, or better yet, memorize it word for word as I have, in a literal equivalent version like the KJV.
I am sure that there are many, like you, who make the false assumptions as you have, and thus simply dismiss the concept that when God/Christ issue an invitation to receive everlasting existence at peace with the Godhead, when that is given, it is never taken back, nor would the recipient later on ever want to reject it.
No one possessing that eternal life of soul and spirit, received in this life, thinks in the terms you do of being, some indeterminate time later on (after physical death?) ". . . welcomed by Jesus Christ, with open arms, at the gates of the New Jerusalem." That's just a flowery figment of your imagination, inappropriate to a fact-based debate.
At the moment of being justified, saved, and sanctified, the one experiencing it knows by experience immediately of being in loving spiritual fellowship with the Savior, His Father, and infused with His Holy Spirit.
From what you have written, it is not clear to me that you have entered this personal, imminent Presence that is promised to the person God has bestowed eternal, never-ending life.
Am I wrong in this?
——>The passage you have based this current point on (Heb. 10:29) applies only to the Hebrews of that time who had to make the decision to pledge their allegiance to the Lamb of Calvary and leave the stifling, mis-administered religion of offering of sacrifices that could NEVER take away and utterly remove their own sins and guilt.
The context of 26-31 is sinning after being made aware of the TRUTH of Christ and salvation. This applies equally to anyone claiming GRACE, and that would include Hebrew AND Gentile converts. AND, specifically to the Hebrew converts, forget about the sacrificial system for sins, because it no longer applies. Continual willful sin, AFTER knowledge of the truth, will be judged by God (there goes OJAJ out the window). AND, claiming grace will not save you. OSAS/OJAJ clearly proven to be a lie.
——>Your total ignorance of what OSAS means is thus displayed.
Let’s go back to Ravi. Previously, it was claimed by your brethren that EVEN IF RAVI WAS UNREPENTANT IN HIS LIFE OF CONTINUAL, WILLFUL SIN, he’s still going to heaven. You were represented in that thread. You claimed OSAS/OJAJ. I have the thread and your words, dude. So, save me the “I’m smarter than you/holier than thou lecture on OSAS/OJAJ.
——>I am sure that there are many, like you, who make the false assumptions as you have, and thus simply dismiss the concept that when God/Christ issue an invitation to receive everlasting existence at peace with the Godhead, when that is given, it is never taken back, nor would the recipient later on ever want to reject it.
You are wrong. Grace, THEN judgment. If someone falsely assumes OSAS and continues in sin, they will pay the ultimate price, unless you are RAVI ZACHARIAS, then you get into heaven no matter how many unrepentant sins you commit (if he was unrepentant).
Matthew 7:
22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!’.
I never knew you; depart from Me, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS!
This theocracy completely excluded Gentiles from citizenship.
And that is the population to whom the epistle was directed for review of the history and conduct of their religion and of God's plan for them subsequent to His Personal intervention through Christ. That is all.
You and I can benefit from its lessons, but the change in beliefs and behaviors are for the Jews who must make the transition from the culture of the Old Covenant, at its death, to the New Covenant in which the Gentile entering by spiritual birth rather than physical birth, to participate equally with Gentile in the new culture being born.
When the author of this epistle, presumed to be a Jew well-theologized in their ages-old detailed religion, when he uses the pronoun "We" in addressing them, that is to mean the reader affected is also Jewish, though not necessarily converted by believing that Jesus is the Messiah, and that bloody sacrifices for sins is no longer an acceptable way to please Jehovah.
But in that period of more than a thousand years, they had become enlightened with the history and practice of Jewishness; they have, as in chapter 6, tasted of the heavenly gift (ritual of the passover, its unleavened bread and wine? manna?), partaken of the Holy Spirit (resting on and guiding their kings, priests, and prophets, esp John Baptist?), tasted (progressive revelation) the good Word of God; tasted of the powers of the world to come (miracles? parting of waters? ?). All this is experienced in their ages-old contact with God, things not available at all to the Gentile. These are things that the Hebrews were in constant relation to, but the Gentiles were not.
This flat-out contradicts you.
John 5:24 (AV):There you have it. You know nothing, it seems, about he transaction whose ratification results in Jesus complete ownership of the person agreeing to unreservedly trust in Him.
Verily, verily, I say unto you,
He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me,
hathpresent tense, active voice, indicative mode; continuously enjoys everlasting life,
and shall not come into condemnationκρίσις=judgment;
but is passedperfect tense, active voice, indicative mode; completed with ongoing consequences from death unto life.
Looks like you are channeling RZIM, which is not good for you and detracts from any believability you might want to have amongst Bible students.
So long on this thread, Philsworld.
Doncha just HATE it when stuff like this turns up?
Ezekiel 23:19-20
19 Yet she multiplied her promiscuity, remembering the days of her youth, when she had prostituted herself in the land of Egypt 20 and lusted after their lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of stallions.
No, Philsworld. More of your misinformation generated by those who wish to hide the real interpretation of Nicolaitism.
Here is the derivation of the word and its interpretation:
-------------The coined term "Nicolaitan" derives from the two Greek words, nikao to overwhelm (verb) and laos (noun), whic is the congregation of ordinary non-clergy "lay people."
Strong's Concordance Number G3528
νικάω
nikaō
nik-ah'-o
Strong's definition;
From G3529;to subdue (literally or figuratively): -
conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.
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Strong's Concordance Number G2992
λαός
laos
lah-os'
Strong's definition;
Apparently a primary word; a people (in general; thus
differing from G1218, which denotes one’s own populace): -
people.
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A secular feudal society sees this as an acceptible way for religionists to gain force over and control the people who can be persuaded to gather together and represent a force in ther communities. In other words, the Nicolaitans are the minority of educated elitists who wish to establish a class of hieratic priests, clergy, to rule over and control the ordinary people of a local church; or more broadly a para-church denomination, an episcopacy of "bishops."
Scriptural local assemblies of servants of Christ do not use this model of organization.
Is it ok if someone calls YOU a donkey genital spewing emission (like that of stallions), just because it’s in the bible?
Are you related to Delchiante? (I’m serious)
Did Moses write Job?
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