https://prophecyquestions.com/category/dispensationalism
—> Neither is there found in Scripture a distinction between Israel and the church
You’re back to drinking heavily, aren’t you grumpa?
Aside from the heresy represented by Rapture/Dispensationalism eschatology; the practical element is that the only Christians in the entire world who actually believe it are American Protestants, NOBODY else does.
“Church fathers widely understand the rapture to be a future physical meeting of Christ and Christians in the air.
Origen gives no indication of a hidden meaning in Paul’s words in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. He simply writes that both the dead and alive in Christ will rise:
“Those whom we spoke of as dead have special need of the resurrection, since not even those who are alive can be taken up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air before the dead in Christ first rise. (Commentary on John, 20.233)
Rufinus of Aquileia clearly indicates a physical reunion with Christ in the sky:
“And do not marvel that the flesh of the saints is to be changed into such a glorious condition at the resurrection as to be caught up to meet God, suspended in the clouds and borne in the air. (Commentary on the Apostles’ Creed, 46)
Augustine says that living Christians will “both die and rise again at once while caught up into the air”:
“And why should it seem to us incredible that that multitude of bodies should be, as it were, sown in the air, and should in the air forthwith revive immortal and incorruptible, when we believe, on the testimony of the same apostle, that the resurrection shall take place in the twinkling of an eye, and that the dust of bodies long dead shall return with incomprehensible facility and swiftness to those members that are now to live endlessly? (City of God, 20.20)
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. so tired of this bold faced lie.
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Neither is there found in Scripture a distinction between Israel and the church,
really?
explain this away then
Daniel 7:21 vs Matthew 16:18
“I was watching;and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them
] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
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aside from that
folk should note that none of us
” dispensationalists “
continuously post threads about the errors of preterism, or dominionism, or postmillenniumism.
yet you regularly post attack threads against premilleniumists. it smacks of accusers of the brethren. you never just post about the gospel. no, just a constant drum beat of lies and ignorance. by your fruit i know you.
I'm not saying there is no truth in it or that nobody should consider it, only that it is important to know that this is not, as it is often presented, the only interpretation or position. As the majority of Christians in the world are either Catholic, Orthodox and other Eastern Churches who do not ascribe to modern Dispensationalism vastly outnumber the American influenced Evangelical Protestants and Protestant Fundamentalists that are the ones who primarily embrace modern Dispensationalism, it is important to point out that it doesn't represent the views of most Christians.
The origin is the Catholic church and futurism.
The reformers were not futurists (Pre Trib Rapture). They were Historicists (only one coming of Christ at the end of this world and prophecy unfolding throughout history). The theory of Futurism began with the Catholic Church and spread to Protestantism. It can be directly traced to Jesuit priests, who had to come up with alternate identities/theories for the Antichrist power, because of the pressure they were feeling from the Reformers, who all identified them as THE antichrist power (Little Horn, Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, etc…):
Francisco Ribera (Jesuit)
Cardinal Robert Bellarmine (Jesuit)
Michael Walpole (Jesuit)
Manuel De Lacunza (Jesuit)
Then, Edward Irving discovered Lacunza’s book in a Library (might have been at Oxford), and translated it into English (originally in Spanish, and he lied about who he was), in 1827. Guess what happened 3 years later? One of his church members, Margaret Mcdonald, just happened to “utter” matching scenarios to Lacunza’s book, which I am sure were mentioned by Irving in his church over those 3 years preceding Margaret’s utterances, and were well known and rehearsed by Mcdonald. What a coincidence. Then comes Darby, Scofield, and many others, until now almost everyone believes it. Amazing, right? The antichrist power, through Satan, has convinced almost everyone that they are not THAT power, identified in the bible, and the Christian world has nothing to fear. And while we are at it, believing in the PTR, you don’t even have to worry about the antichrist, mark of the beast, or tribulation, because the “church” will be “raptured” out of this world before any of it happens. How lucky can a Christian get?
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism
https://www.biblelightinfo.com/antichrist.htm
Scripture is the origin.
It’s spelled out there.
Biden scares me.
The Middle East is coming apart.
We will now fight proxy wars with Russia, screwing each other at every opportunity.
China is totally ignored and continues to grow in military and economic power, as well as political influence.
Our economy is NOT doing well, despite all the BS government charts and favorable coverage by a pro Democrat MSM.
It is highly questionable if our elections are real, and we now have political prisoners. No $hit, the US has political prisoners as in some tin pot Caribbean regime.
We have a Southern border that is unhinged and an illegal crisis (which is taxing our social services).
Our national debt is crazy, inflation is high, the real middle class is shrinking.
Crime is in the rise, drug deaths are at record levels... https://nida.nih.gov/sites/default/files/images/2023-Drug-od-death-rates-1.jpeg
But our MSM pretends as if all is fine!
We are not in a good place right now.
Irenaeus (around 200 AD) wrote about the Church being ‘suddenly caught up’ and then “tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be” following that. This is in his Against Heresies.
Irenaeus also wrote of the three core tenants of dispensationalism.
Ephraim the Syrian and Eusebius (approx. 330 to 370 AD) also wrote about a pretribulation rapture.
You’re killing it Grumps. Keep up the good work.
In the 1960s growing therevwas a lot of discussions revolving around 44,000 Jews or a number from the 12 tribes of Israel. The other side was only Christians would go up because Jews list their right to claim their by judgment for not accepting Jesus as savior.
There is the Jewish tradition and then a branch predominantly of gentiles whose tradition claims only they have the one God because they have Jesus.
Spending two years in Isreal impressed upon me the political nature of this God vs Jesus is God religious warfare.
Of course the Jews have up yo 400 sects and the Christians have thousands.
Christianity introduced Heaven and enternal life with Jesus and God... or the alternative. Many Jews say the soul goes through a transition lasting up to a few years before its destination on which I was never quite clear.
Maybe I’m closer to the Jew in the respect that I know God and have faith in Jesus. I have never doubted God, and I know Jesus existed in our flesh, I won’t argue for or against Jesus if you believe in the God of the Bible. It really makes enemies to argue that someone worships Satan not God if they don’t go thru Jesus. God will accrpt his Jewish followers the same as the converted Gentile or converted Jew. He can be patient in your faith of Jesus.
——>The 1830 beginning for pre-tribulationism is an embarrassment to dispensationalists. So, they have desperately tried to find pre-tribulationism earlier in history.
Absolutely true.
