Posted on 03/06/2024 5:46:26 PM PST by grumpa
The pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a tenet of dispensationalism which holds that living believers will be taken to heaven to avoid a future Great Tribulation. It is noteworthy that no verse in the Bible specifically says that Christ will come to take the church off planet earth to heaven before a 7-year tribulation. Neither is there found in Scripture a distinction between Israel and the church, or a parenthesis that stops the prophecy clock prior to the 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27. These are the distinctives that define dispensationalism and the pre-trib rapture.
The rapture doctrine was introduced to the world in 1830 in the British Isles. There were 4 key players that had a hand in its early development:
1. In the spring of 1830, a sickly 15-year-old Scottish girl named Margaret McDonald had a vision (“revelation”) about a rapture event. Her idea was based in part on Bible verses which in the KJV speaks of people being “taken” (Matthew 24:40-41) and “caught up” (1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). We know about her vision because she wrote to several prominent clergymen about it, and it was reprinted in a couple of books a few years later. McDonald reasoned that only after a literal rapture, when some would be left on earth, would the Antichrist be revealed. It would be a secret event in that only believers would be able to see “the sign of Jesus’ appearance.” No one in the 18 centuries preceding her had ever clearly communicated this totally new doctrine of “escapism.” Scholars have even debated whether McDonald’s vision was strictly a pre-tribulation rapture, as some see elements of historicism and post-tribulation in it.
2. One of those clergymen who received McDonald’s letter was Edward Irving. As early as June 2, 1830, Irving confessed in a private letter that the “substance of . . . Margaret McDonald’s visions or revelations . . . carry to me a spiritual conviction and a spiritual reproof which I cannot express.” Interestingly, Irving was also from Scotland and drew large crowds, so McDonald may have been influenced by him (as well as the reverse).
3. In September 1830 a writer going by the pen name of “Fidus” expressed this novel idea in a prophecy journal which Irving published called “The Morning Watch.” Dave MacPherson, who studied pre-trib history for many years, stated in his 1994/2000 book titled “The Rapture Plot,” that this article is “the earliest moment I’ve found anyone publicly teaching the pretrib rapturescape.” Irving (and “Fidus”) seem to have been the first also to see the seven churches of Revelation as symbolic representations of seven successive stages of the church―a key element of dispensationalism. The identity of “Fidus” is unknown, but if it was not Irving himself, it seems likely that it was one of his associates.
4. John Nelson Darby, Anglo-Irish founder of the Plymouth Brethren church, became aware of the above. He attended at least one of the Albury prophecy conferences, of which Irving was a part. Darby became a champion of the rapture and promoted it extensively, becoming “The Father of Dispensationalism.” It’s uncertain when Darby put together all of the many aspects of dispensationalism. But MacPherson argues that Darby did not fully embrace the pre-trib rapture until about 1839. Thomas Ice wrote that, "Darby is the father of dispensationalism.”
The 1830 beginning for pre-tribulationism is an embarrassment to dispensationalists. So, they have desperately tried to find pre-tribulationism earlier in history. Here are some earlier figures that have been cited incorrectly as holding to a pre-trib rapture:
1. “Pseudo-Ephraem”―called “pseudo” because this was not the real Ephraim the Syrian. No one really knows who this person was, when his tract was written, or which version of the work to rely on. While some find pre-trib in this writing, MacPherson argued that this person was not a pre-tribulationist, but rather saw Christ’s Second Coming only at the end of history. This view is what we would call today amillennialism or postmillennialism. Bob Gundry, on the other hand, in his book “First the Antichrist” argues that Pseudo-Ephraem was a post-tribulationist.
2. Morgan Edwards (1722-1792). MacPherson said that he was a “historicist post-tribulationist” and not a pre-tribulationist.
3. Manuel Lacunza (1731-1801). Lacunza was a Jesuit priest from Chile. Irving translated Lacunza’s book, “The Coming of Messiah,” into English. MacPherson said that Lacunza was a post-tribulationist, not a pre-tribulationist. However, it is true that Lacunza in his book promoted elements of dispensationalism, saying, “The restoration of the Jewish nation, to be again be the Church of God. . . .” Lacunza used the word “dispensation” numerous times in his book. Influenced by Lacunza, Irving taught dispensationalism at the Albury conferences―thus the origin of dispensationalism.
You’re killing it Grumps. Keep up the good work.
In the 1960s growing therevwas a lot of discussions revolving around 44,000 Jews or a number from the 12 tribes of Israel. The other side was only Christians would go up because Jews list their right to claim their by judgment for not accepting Jesus as savior.
There is the Jewish tradition and then a branch predominantly of gentiles whose tradition claims only they have the one God because they have Jesus.
Spending two years in Isreal impressed upon me the political nature of this God vs Jesus is God religious warfare.
Of course the Jews have up yo 400 sects and the Christians have thousands.
Christianity introduced Heaven and enternal life with Jesus and God... or the alternative. Many Jews say the soul goes through a transition lasting up to a few years before its destination on which I was never quite clear.
Maybe I’m closer to the Jew in the respect that I know God and have faith in Jesus. I have never doubted God, and I know Jesus existed in our flesh, I won’t argue for or against Jesus if you believe in the God of the Bible. It really makes enemies to argue that someone worships Satan not God if they don’t go thru Jesus. God will accrpt his Jewish followers the same as the converted Gentile or converted Jew. He can be patient in your faith of Jesus.
youre of the same ilk with the same argument just tag teaming same crap , different bull ...neither one of you have been alive 2000 years to know whats been taught or not. both of you push the darby invented the rapture doctrine. neither one of you will address the fact that there is a division between israel and the church .you are both anti Semitics that rob israel of its kingdom promise by God .both of you spout the israel is replaced by the church heresy .im guessing you are both catholic or seventh day Adventists or Unitarians .my money is on the last cuz of the denial of the word trinity in the bible along with the ignorant idea that the word rapture isnt in the bible even though it is a latin word and is in the latin Vulgate . you both seem to think you are wise but are fools. you both are blind leading the blind. you both believe the demonic doctrine that God is finished with Israel .you are both stiff necked unteachable unrepentant dishonest bull crapers and cowards who wont answer a question about scriptures in daniel and matthew.
another deluded fanboy.
sad.
the only thing hes killing is your ability to discern the scriptures.
ive come to see that you and your crew cant understand scripture, cuz you have no discernment , cuz you dont have the holy spirit, cuz you arent even saved.
in that day Jesus is going to tell you He never knew you.
now gnash your teeth and spew more nonsense just like the acts 7 crew before they stoned steven.
i now knock the dust off my sandels and leave you to your judgmment day.
One should live as if Jesus is coming back in five minutes.
Another thing that one pastor said was something like “And when have the faithful EVER been removed from terrible circumstances? Those circumstances change, but they had to endure them. Otherwise, who would be a witness to the unbelievers, or the people that have lost hope or faith? God's plan of Salvation is that he uses us to make disciples. It's not how I would have done it - relying on sinners like me to show people God's salvation, but that is the plan. The only plan.”
Hmm, as I write that, about God using sinners - perhaps it is like Alcoholics Anonymous. The folks that have gone through it and then recovered are perhaps the best people to offer an example and encouragement to others and show them the way out of their addiction.
Cuz anyone who doesn’t agree with you on everything doesn’t understand scripture and is unsaved. Gotcha. What a religious bigot.
The obviouse irony of your statement is clearly beyond you.
Truely reprobate
1 cor 5:5
Enjoy
I think it does to some degree.
“ According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
“After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
“ Therefore encourage one another with these words.
I Thess
——>The 1830 beginning for pre-tribulationism is an embarrassment to dispensationalists. So, they have desperately tried to find pre-tribulationism earlier in history.
Absolutely true.
If you say so. I’m always open to a civil discussion between Christians, but I’ve been around the apologetics world and deep in Scripture and Church history too long, and am too old to get baited and led around by the nose into rabbit trails by these type of tactics. Call me whatever you want and believe as you wish, but don’t expect intelligent people with a knowledge of Scripture and of Church history to swallow what you say without direct evidence. It might work on simpletons and the ignorant but not on me, so don’t waste our time. Have a blessed day.
When the last trumpet sounds Jesus sets foot on Earth, but
when the rapture happens Jesus does not set foot on Earth rather he meets those dead and alive in Him in the clouds.
But I also don’t think the rapture will happen anytime soon.
3 questions - how close are we to:
a one world language,
a one world monetary system, &
a one world religion?
Not Jesus generation but the generation that witnesses Matt 24 scriptures fulfilled.
What gives?
Thor’s day March 7th is a one world Babylonian system already.
And the world religions believe it is the 5th work day of the God of Creation thanks to Daniel’s 4th Beast and Antichrist Papacy.
That’s the definition of Satan deceiving the whole world.
And it’s thanks to the Church that Satan is that successful in deceiving the whole world..
And it isn’t because it’s left.
It’s because it’s sitting atop a Beast, riding it..
I that passage is just one of many that teach that our final destination is heaven, not earth.
https://prophecyquestions.com/heaven-questions-and-answers/
Or is it biblical textual evidence that support the idea that the church s. Of sent during the tribulation?
yet you regularly post attack threads against premilleniumists. it smacks of accusers of the brethren.
Truth is always attacked. Lies are exposed, then moved on.
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