Posted on 03/04/2024 4:04:09 PM PST by grumpa
https://prophecyquestions.com/prophecy-questions-specifically-for-dispensationalists/
How are we going to get people to support Armageddon if they read what you wrote?
grumpa back as the accuser of the brethren!
Not that this will change your mind, but allow me to offer a Pascal’s Wager alternative.
There are two possibilities: one is that present-day Israel is the fulfillment of Biblical prophecy, and the other is that it is simply a political unit that happens to consist mostly of Jews.
This leaves four options.
1) Israel is a political unit, and I don’t think of it as the fulfillment of prophecy. I happen to be correct, and not out of God’s will.
2) Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy, and I think of it that way. I happen to be correct, and not out of God’s will.
3) Israel is a political unit, and I think of it as the fulfillment of prophecy. I happen to be incorrect. I am not necessarily out of God’s will, since I still think of the church as being grafted to the vine, and by supporting a political unit of Jews I am not blaspheming God’s people.
4) Israel is the fulfillment of prophecy, and I think of it as a political unit. I happen to be incorrect. I also am outside of God’s will, since I do not support the fulfillment of His prophecy, and I am not standing with those who are the apple of His eye.
Of the four above options, #4 has the greatest risk for the least reward, while #3 has the least risk for the greatest reward. I am better off assuming Israel is the establishment of God’s chosen people in the fulfillment of prophecy, even if I were to find out as I enter the pearly gates that I was incorrect, since I would still be able to enter.
Not a fan of Hal Lindsey I see …
Excellent repurpose of Pascal’s Wager!
You are saying that faith in Christ is not enough for salvation. One must have faith in Christ PLUS support Israel.
Salvation is thru YESHUA alone.
Yes, thru YESHUA alone. Not a Preist or Pope or Mary. This is more of a rewards issue.
Covenantal theology is the foundation for a whole lot antisemitism
Yes, I bring it up because Protestants are always brow-beating Catholics for the Eucharist or Sacrament of Penance. “You don’t need that for salvation!” Then these Dispensationalists talk as if “But you need to support Israel.”
Although I don’t know why you bring up the pope. We Catholics keep telling you Prots, we don’t worship the pope or Mary.
Do you belive Mary is sinless, and that she was born imaculate?
Chajin said nothing about salvation being dependent on one’s view of the Jew’s or modern day Israel. Both of you are putting up an unnecessary straw man!
Both those who believe in a restored Israel and those who believe that the Church has replaced Israel have a place in the Church. However, I have sat through classes on Revelations being taught by those with the replacement view. They have to resort to a lot of “spiritualized” interpretations during the description of John being transported to Heaven during the end times.
Dispensationalism is not dead.
I suggest that people spend some time following Amir Tsafarti. He is a Christian Jew who lives in Israel.
https://t.me/s/beholdisraelchannel
His web page posts pictures and videos about what is going on in present day Israel. He posted several videos of Israeli forces occupying Hamas sites and singing about looking forward to the coming of the Messiah.
I’m a Messianic Jew, thank you for clarifying what was said.
Yes. Early church fathers, far wiser than I, said so.
The Bible says no such thing.
—> Then these Dispensationalists talk as if “But you need to support Israel.”
I do not know of any dispensationalist who claims supporting Israel is necessary for salvation.
As Gary North pointed out, people know which side their bread is buttered on. They have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo that maintains their income. Why rock the boat that's keeping your family afloat?
For example, Dallas Theological Seminary, the flagship of the flagging dispensational subculture, declared its own irrelevance to real-world issues in 1973. The de-facto deity of the USA -- what five black-robed miscreants think or feel on a given day -- enforced unrestricted human sacrifice on all fifty states.
And DTS was silent.
Even though Roe v. Wade happened in their own back yard, under their noses -- THEY HAD NOTHING TO SAY.
Guys who preach optimism and Christian responsibility find themselves without a pulpit.(1) Denied access to the Wheaton Mafia, the mainstream evangelical press. Which DTS does train competent hacks to write for.
If you truly intend to study, teach, and preach the Kingdom of God, much of your education will be self-education. Reading everything you can get your hands on from the new kids on the block. Trying the new paradigms out.(2)
The linked document was my lifeline during my own decade-long session of rewiring my mind along Kingdom-honoring lines. It lived in the pocket of my suitcoat and got re-read many times. Gary North basically argued that you can't get training in the new paradigm (Jesus is Lord over the vast universe AROUND us, as well as the half-vast "universe" inside us) from folks who've bet the farm on the old way of thinking.
~~~
(1) The closest Christian Reconstructionist church I'm aware of is about 100 miles from where I sit. The founding pastor planted this new church in the middle of the Bible Belt, rather than trying to work with an existing church. He explained, "It's easier to give birth than it is to raise the dead."
(2) My favorite denomination, Every Nation International, likes to plant churches on college campuses. One of their highly-trained and highly-motivated campus missionaries tried to take the Gospel of the Kingdom to a notable Baptist university -- but gave up after banging her head against the wall there for months. The kids just could not grasp the idea of a relevant public Christian faith -- and kept wanting to scoot off and have some more "personal devotions" whenever a challenging real-world question arose.
Click HERE for that essay on self-education.
However, the statement that the current Jewish people are not the descendants of the Biblical Jewish people is untrue. There are plenty of historical documents that show a continuity of the Jewish people following the destruction of the Second Temple. Some claim the term, Jew, is a relatively recent invention. Yet among the first English translations of the Bible, such as the Geneva Bible (Puritan) and the Douay Rheims Bible (Catholic), both of which date to the late 16th Century, you will find that term used to describe the Jewish people. DNA evidence indicates that while the exiles did intermarry with other Mediterranean peoples, notably Greeks and Italians, the closest paternal DNA for Ashkenazi (Eastern and Central European) Jews are other Jewish groups like the Sephardim. After other Jews, the next closest genetic matches are Palestinians, Lebanese, and other people who have lived in the Holy Land for many centuries.
You must ask yourself why God has chosen to preserve national Israel. It is rather hard to find Galatians, Visigoths, Picts, Scythians, Hittites, and other nations contemporary with Biblical Israel. We have the statement of the Apostle Paul in Romans 11:25-26 (NKJV) "For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved." While the church is God's primary vehicle since Pentecost, He has not abandoned His original people. Before the end of the world, the Jewish people will collectively recognize Jesus as their Savior.
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