The Claim That Jesus Now Reigns Over The Nations Dishonors Our Savior

Jonathan Brentner ^ | 1/10/24 | Jonathan Brentner

[Philsworld]

---->Jesus has made a new Covenant with Israel - but only the Israelites who accept Jesus (as Paul says) are the “true Israel” and are a part of it.

No, this is "true" Israel:

Romans 6:6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

[SheepWhisperer]

From cult teachings.

...there...I said the quiet part out loud.

...that is all

[circlecity]

No one ever promised that peace would reign on earth or that evil would disappear. But peace with God would be available. “In this world you will have tribulation….”

[Philsworld]

——>It is yet future:

And this is the way it ends (since you mentioned this verse):

Revelation 11:19And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Ark of his testament. The ark in the typical sanctuary was the depository of the Ten Commandments, God’s immutable moral law for all men in all ages. No believer in God in Jewish times could think of the ark without becoming immediately conscious of the Ten Commandments. John’s vision of the ark above argues eloquently that in earth’s last hours God’s great moral law is to be central in the thinking and in the lives of all who seek to serve God in spirit and in truth (see on chs. 12:17; 14:12; cf. GC 433).

Lightnings, and voices, and thunderings. As under the seventh plague (ch. 16:18).

An earthquake. As under the seventh plague (ch. 16:18, 19, cf. on ch. 11:13).

Great hail. As under the seventh plague (ch. 16:21).

SDA Bible Commentary

[Philsworld]

Romans 9:6 (sorry)

[Seven_0]

If the 3rd woe is 1,000 years in length, as your premise suggests, then the first 2 woes could also be 1,000 years each..

Interesting. The first woe is five months. The second woe, an hour and a day and a month and a year. I say that the third woe could be a thousand years because the judgment of the dead in Revelation 11:18 could be the same event as the Great White Throne judgment in Revelation 20.

Consider two parallel prophecies (Rev.10:11). The first one ends when Christ takes the reins of power at the seventh trumpet. Then Rev. 12 take us back to Christ again and gives us a different perspective. The rapture happens in Rev. 4:1 and Rev 14:16. It is hard to imagine that Christ would give 42 month to the beast in Rev 13:5 after he begins to rule. The events of chapter 12 and 13 could come before the rapture and the seven year tribulation. Also the seven thunders would be the last judgment before Christ returns.

”But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished.”

[delchiante]

I have wondered about that 5 month period, and I’ve wondered if it doesn’t happen every year, like the Chapter 12 woman and the sun and the moon under her feet, happens every year.

Chapter 12’s woman, clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet, also happened at His birth.

That actually is an event that happens annually in the heavens.

A couple thousand years ago, it happened in late summer. These days it can happen early fall.

It’s quite a revelation of when He was born and blows a hole right through Daniels 4th Beast and their date setting of His birth, His circumcision and His presentation in the temple as a 40 day babe..

Daniel’s 4th Beast doesn’t get His death,burial and resurrection right, according to scripture, either.

The end times today has a Beast running around teaching and preaching another Jesus and another gospel..

And the world wanders after it..

Mystery Babylon was affiliated with 2 woes in Revelation (woe, woe)
Mystery Babylon was also affiliated with 2 Alas in Revelation.
(Alas, alas)
Mystery Babylon was also affiliated with 2 Fallen in Revelation
(Fallen, fallen)

Those patterns of 2, with the 2 cock crows in Mark, and Mark Specifically, the about 2,000 demon possessed swine (unclean animal not to be eaten or touched) only numbered in Mark, Mark’s delay of one day in the cleansing of the temple ( day is 1,000 years), and about 2,000 cubits of distance Israel was kept from the ark before Passing over in Joshua, denote a pattern that was going to have at least 2 days or 2,000 years of the Church Age where the Ark would be in Heaven while the Church wandered in the wilderness down here.
A period where for about 2,000 years, with the help of Satan, and within Satan’s allotted Legion (6,000 years), the only thing to eat would be unclean doctrines of demons that shouldn’t be spiritually eaten or touched..

It would conclude that the Church that says it’s going to be raptured out of the way so the evil can have its way, is actually the Mystery Babylon enabling Satan to deceive the whole world.
And it shouldn’t be allowed to escape what it helped build into a Beast, where non biblical days and dates transform the Messiah of Israel, the Word, Torah made Flesh, into a version decreed by Daniel’s 4th Beast, Rome, with its catechism and calendar.

For the Kingdom to truly come here and for Satan to really lose, religion is going to also have to take a Huge L.

These last 2,000 years may actually be the evil time and tribulation that people are predicting when the Church says it’s going to flee the earth.

Satan may not be able deceive the whole world without the Church’s help.

And by Church, I mean Mother of harlots and harlot daughters.
A whole corrupted, leavened lump.

Fleeing Babylon just got a whole lot tougher a task in the end times, with this premise.

And that may be, ultimately, why Mark had a day delay in cleansing the temple versus Mathew and Luke.

Mathew and Luke represent different parts of the Church Age that aren’t associated fully with the about 2,000 demon possessed swine years.

And may be why Mathew and Luke disciples were called not to take a staff with them, while Mark disciples were called to carry the staff and wear sandals.
Two symbols of authority given to the disciples in that Age.

Staff that would eventually turn into a serpent, not unlike Moses, the shepherd, and Aaron the priest, had their staffs turn into a serpent.

It was the first sign that caused Israel to believe.

Maybe the Church would always be turned into a serpent for Israel’s sake.
To cause them to believe.

Not sure the Church wants to see itself as serpent led, but there’s evidence it is..

And there would be a biblical reason for it.
Divine Providence for His purposes and His glory.

The end times Church has a completely different version of Jesus and the gospel than Peter, the other disciples, and Paul.

And Islam and Judaism aren’t right either with their doctrines of demons..

Satan does deceive the whole world. And Satan needs the Church, Islam and Judaism to do it..

For Satan’s reign to end and Christ’s to truly begin, religion needs to fall.

And as the Church doctrines of demons fall, doctrines of demons in Islam and Judaism follow..

Satan can’t afford to have that happen. But it has to.

For the elect’s sake, that time of doctrines of demons has to stay at about 2,000..

Satan’s Legion, 6,000 entering the man, and then entering about 2,000 unclean animals, then drowing, isn’t a parable on its natural side. On the spiritual, it reveals much in a way a parable does.

The last 2,000 years of Satan’s legion would be the Church age.
Even if a woe isn’t 1,000 years, the Church Age appears to be demon possessed swine years.
And about 2,000 years in length.

Not sure that would preach in many churches.

[daniel1212]

Do you think that this describes the second coming of Christ?

I do believe in the coming of Christ being a future event, and while Christians better than me can disagree, I do not subscribe to the pretrib rapture belief, seeing it more warranted that the Lord keeps the faithful through the Tribulation, to meet the Lord in the air at the resurrection at the end of the Trib. and go with him to the battle of Armageddon, and stand at the judgment seat of Christ, (1 Co. 3:8ff) and reign with Him for a 1,000 years, and sit as a jury at the final judgment.

But how the 28 judgments the book of Revelation fit into all I cannot say.

[daniel1212]

CCC 668...CCC 672

Why leave out 673 Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been immminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are "delayed".568 674 The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573

At least they got the end-time conversion of the Jews correct, and the final trial that will precede it, but I find denying the literal 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus is to be untenable.

[fidelis]

Why leave out 673 Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been immminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."

Because it was not directly appropo to the conversation.

I find denying the literal 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus is to be untenable.<\i>

Since you ascribe to the novel and unbiblical theology of dispensationalism, I’d be surprised if you didn’t. I’m very familiar with it, so please spare me the usual copy and paste haranguing because I can’t be baited and won’t waste my time responding. Have a blessed day.

[EliRoom8]

KUDOS!!! A good post. However I’m surprised that this guy even found a church trying to teach from the Word at all. Most Reformed presenters I have heard from are averse to that.

[af_vet_1981]

My favorite, so reassuring:

CCC 672
Before his Ascension Christ affirmed that the hour had not yet come for the glorious establishment of the messianic kingdom awaited by Israel[562] which, according to the prophets, was to bring all men the definitive order of justice, love and peace.[563] According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by "distress" and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church[564] and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.[565]

[daniel1212]

Because it was not directly appropo to the conversation.

"Directly?"

"The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.5.. The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573

was appropo to The End Times "conversation " "That Jesus Now Reigns Over The Nations" which you responded to.

Since you ascribe to the novel and unbiblical theology of dispensationalism,

I do not know what version of dispensationalism you denigrate, but perhaps you see no distinction between Israel and the Church, and hold that Christians are bound by all the Mosaic law, as Adam and Eve were.

In any, as said, I do not hold to the pretrib "rapture," but if you deny the literal 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus, which is clearly referred to so many times, and substantively so - just a few which were as linked to and ignored - then you have a problem with Scripture.

Which is consistent with believing a church whose distinctive teachings are not manifest in the only wholly God-inspired, substantive, authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels)

[Seven_0]

I do not subscribe to the pretrib rapture belief

Revelation 14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

I would say that this harvest is possibly the rapture. Note that those left behind are judged. Do you have a different explanation? It doesn’t appear to be like Matthew 24 where ones the taken are taken by judgment. They knew not until the flood came and took them…