Posted on 08/27/2023 6:35:21 AM PDT by Roman_War_Criminal
Preterism is one of today’s popular views of the end times; its adherents among church staff continue to rapidly grow in number. Below is a list of its basic beliefs:
Nero was the Antichrist. There will be no future individual Antichrist. The Tribulation Period is already over. It occurred when the Roman army besieged Jerusalem in AD 66-70. Christ “returned” in the clouds in AD 70 to witness the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman army. God replaced Old Testament Israel with the Church. Therefore, all the biblical promises to Israel belong to the Church. Armageddon already happened in AD 70. Satan is already bound in the abyss and cannot hinder the spread of the Gospel. Revelation 20 has already been fulfilled. We are already in the Millennium, but it is not literal. Some preterists equate the entire Church Age as the Millennium [as do other end time positions]. Some preterists believe in a bodily resurrection of the saints as described in 1 Corinthians 15:47-54 and Philippians 3:20-21, which necessitates, in their view, another return of the Savior. Many advocates of preterism don’t believe in a future bodily resurrection of the saints as described in these passages.
The popularity of a doctrine that believes Jesus fulfilled His Matthew 24:29-31 promise in AD 70 is just an initial cause for alarm. Below I describe other reasons why we must reject the teachings of preterism. It’s also because they . . .
Nullify What The Bible Says About Jesus’ Future Glory
In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus described His glorious return at which time everyone on earth will mourn as they see “the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.” We see this magnificent display of dazzling supremacy recounted in Revelation 19:11-20:6.
To assert that an obscure vision of chariots clashing in the sky, which only one person reportedly saw, fulfilled these prophecies of Jesus’ breathtakingly spectacular return to earth, as the preterists do, makes no sense whatsoever.
To say that that this happened in AD 70 has a chilling impact on the glory that Scripture ascribes to Jesus at His Second Coming
Preterism also attacks Jesus’ glory by negating His future inheritance of the nations. Listen to what the Father promises the Son in Psalm 2:8-9: “Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel.”
It’s clear from the context that these are physical nations with real kings. The promise of Psalm 2 as well as that of Isaiah 9:6-7 relate to a time when Jesus will physically govern the nations. Denying Jesus’ thousand-year reign cancels His future glory associated with both His return and kingship.
I believe that the most serious error of the preterists is that they do great damage to the Name of Jesus by placing His return to earth in AD 70.
Pour Cold Water On Our ‘Blessed Hope’
It’s abundantly clear throughout the New Testament that God intended our future expectation to be solely upon Jesus and His appearing at which time believers will receive glorified bodies (Philippians 3:20-21; 1 Corinthians 15:47-54), experience eternal victory over death (1 Corinthians 15:54-56; 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10, 4:13-5:11), and be caught up to forever be with the Lord (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). This is the substance of our “blessed hope” (Titus 2:11-14).
As New Testament saints, we have a glorious expectation rooted in the sure promise of Jesus’ appearing. Don’t let anyone pour ice-cold water on your joyous hope of meeting Jesus in the air. This day is surely coming.
Contradict What Scripture Reveals About God’s Character
I retired seven years ago to begin a fulltime studying and writing career devoted mainly to defending Jesus’ thousand-year reign and our expectation of His appearing before the seven-year Tribulation. I have recently come to the conclusion that if someone were to ask me why I’m so convinced of these things, I would begin my response this way:
The future and glorious restoration of Israel seamlessly aligns with what Scripture reveals regarding God’s character. I also know Jesus, who perfectly mirrors the Father, and He will rescue His bride, the body of Christ, before His wrath encompasses the earth. It’s what I know from Scripture about the Lord that confirms my belief in these things.
Of course, the words of Scripture solidly back up these beliefs and I would quickly go there in defending our “blessed hope.”
As for the return of future glory to the nation of Israel, which preterists soundly deny, the Lord makes it clear that He must fulfill His covenants and promises because of His holiness. In Exodus 32:11-14, Moses bases His argument for God to preserve His people, after they worshipped the golden calf, upon His character and reputation. In Ezekiel 36:22-38, the Lord copies Moses’ argument from Exodus 32 stating that His holiness demands the restoration of Israel as detailed in this wonderful passage.
Teachings that place the fulfillment of most end-time biblical prophecies in the past also contradict what the Bible tells us about our God. Isaiah 46:8-11 tells us that He loves to declare “the end from the beginning.” The vast number of prophecies relating to our day stem both from His great love for us and His shear delight at revealing the future from ancient times.
The One who prophesied about His Son defeating Satan all the way back in the garden of Eden is definitely not Someone who would leave us with no signs of the end times or without a clue as to when Jesus might appear.
Rest Upon An Untenable View Of Church History
Preterists maintain that John authored the book of Revelation in about AD 65. If the apostle penned it after AD 70 then preterism can’t possibly be true since John would be writing about the future return of the Lord after it took place.
It’s impossible, however, to maintain such an early date for the origin of the book. Writers in the early centuries of the church place John’s banishment to the Isle of Patmos and the writing of Revelation late in the reign of the Emperor Domitian, who ruled over Rome from AD 81-96. Irenaeus, who grew up in the church at Smyrna and later became a prominent leader and writer, stated that John wrote Revelation near the end of Domitian’s rule.
Irenaeus’ mentor in the faith, Polycarp, was not only a disciple of the Apostle John, but also most likely the one who would’ve read the book to the church at Smyrna. Surely Irenaeus would’ve known the date of its writing.
A question that preterists can’t answer is this: “Why did all the prominent leaders of the church during its first three centuries regard the Second Coming as a future event? Influential church fathers such as Papias (70-163), Irenaeus (130-202), Justyn Martyr (100-165), and Tertullian (155-240) all wrote regarding the future certainty of Jesus’ return to earth as well as His thousand-year reign over the nations. Until the time of Augustine in the fifth century AD, the church believed in Jesus’ future one-thousand year reign with few exceptions.
The testimony of church history makes preterism untenable. Besides the almost unanimous witness to the later date for the writing of Revelation, everyone in the early centuries of the church regarded Jesus’ return as a future event. How is it possible that the entire church missed Jesus’ return if it had already happened?
The idea that Jesus returned to earth in AD 70 didn’t even exist anywhere in the church until the seventeenth century when a disgruntled Jesuit Catholic priest, Luis de Alcazar, began teaching the past fulfillment of biblical prophecy associated with Jesus’ Second Coming.
Hurt The Saints
Preterism deprives New Testament saints of the blessedness of their “blessed hope.” It does so by turning the New Testament expectation of glory into one of certain death. During the past decade, I’ve heard several pastors say that all believers will die before Jesus returns even though the Bible says otherwise in I Corinthians 15:47-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
Do you see how this not only blinds the eyes of believers, but also hurts them by shifting their attention away from Jesus’ appearing?
Preterists, as well as amillennialists, do considerable damage to the cause of Christ by ignoring myriad of signs pointing to Jesus’s soon arrival to take us home. They tell us that eschatological positions are “tertiary,” or of third-rate importance, and we must not talk about something so nonessential lest we upset someone.
Apart from what the Bible reveals about the end times and our hope, how do we deal with the massive number of deadly fires, the floods, and wholesale murder of multitudes, as well as innocents? How do we cope with such great wickedness apart from the Bible’s assurance that God is in control and that He will justly judge the world after He takes us up to glory?
It’s deeply troubling to anyone aware of the times in which we live. God’s Word relieves our fears in that it tells us the last days before the Tribulation would look like this and promises us that Jesus will appear to take us home before the start of the Day of the Lord’s wrath.
The end of the age wrap-up so prominent in both amillennialism and preterism beliefs keeps believers from hearing the biblically sound encouragement they so desperately need in today’s world. Such bland end-of-days scenario ignores the glories of Jesus’ Second Coming and His glorious rule over the nations. For us, it dampens our joyous expectation of His appearing as clearly annunciated in so many New Testament passages.
Biblical prophecy, as well as the book of Revelation, magnifies the person of Jesus from beginning to end. The teachings of preterism assign a far less glorious place to Jesus in the scheme of end time events. This is the key reason to reject it.
For New Testament saints drawn into this egregious error, it moves their hope away from Jesus’ appearing to the certainty of death leaving them to hope in things that will never calm their fears or enable them to cope with the terrors ahead should Jesus not come for His Church in the very near future.
Whose errors are you referring to? I’ve gotten lost in the thread.
“That is the absurd position that Preterism takes.
Insane!”
Whole new levels of insanity, in fact.
Dallas Jenkins’ tweets.
As well as the LGBTQ thing of his cast and crew.
Yes
✝️🙏🛐
It looks as though you might be having a problem distinguishing between the Rapture and the Second Advent. The Rapture relates to events surrounding the Church; the Second Advent relates to that which surrounds the return of Christ to rescue Israel. At this point in the ministry of Christ the Rapture had not been introduced. It would be at the Last Supper. THIS IS COMMON KNOWLEDGE.
If you want more “meat on the bones,” do some internet research. Beyond that, stop with the condescending tone. It is quite arrogant and not at all appreciated.
So please take your “meat on the bones” attitude elsewhere.
Thanks for all that help ...
I think I’m clear now.
I may have misread your post. If you weren’t being condescending, please forgive. It is just that preterists often take a snotty attitude.
Here’s some “meat on the bones” attitude, from a minister/religious scholar, who was literally “there”:
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is a “Pre-fabrication”, a lie. It arose from the Jesuit counter reformation.
The Hope of Christ’s Second Coming: How is it Taught in Scripture? And Why? Samuel Prideaux Tregelles. March 17, 1864. (attended Edward Irving’s church and eyewitness to Margaret McDonald’s utterances…first time EVER hearing about PTR theory)
“I am not aware that there was any definite teaching that there would be a SECRET RAPTURE of the Church at a secret coming, until this was given forth as an utterance in Mr. Irving’s Church, from what was there received as being the voice of the Spirit. But whether anyone ever asserted such a thing or not, it was from that supposed revelation that the modern doctrine and the modern phraseology respecting it arose. It came not from Holy Scripture, but from that which falsely pretended to be the Spirit of God, while not owning the true doctrine of our Lord’s incarnation in the same flesh and blood as His brethren, but without taint of sin.
“But there is a very different theory of the coming of the Lord as the hope of His Church, which many teach, and which many more receive, as though it were unquestioned truth.”
“It is said that there shall be a SECRET coming of the Lord Jesus Christ; that at this SECRET coming His believing people who are in their graves shall be raised, and the living changed, and that a secret rapture of the Church shall then take place; that this SECRET coming and SECRET rapture are our hope, and not the manifested appearing of Christ in the clouds of heaven.”
“It is said that after this SECRET removal of the Church, the full manifestation of human evil, for some years at least, will take place, during which time shall be the display of the power of Antichrist,—the persecutions foretold in the Revelation, the extreme trials of Israel, the unequaled tribulation,—and that the end of this will be the manifestation of Christ visibly coming with His Church in the cloud of glory.”
“This is the doctrine of the SECRET coming of Christ, which many now preach as if it were the acknowledged truth of God, instead of its being (as is really the case) that which at every point would require proof from Scripture.”
“But not only is this doctrine of the coming of Christ not taught in the Word of God, but if, in what has been previously said, there is any point of truth, then this whole system stands in distinct contradiction of what the Scripture reveals.”
“what the Scripture reveals.”
Thanks
See ... now that’s more like it’
In my reading ( I’m no theologin) I see it like in Mark 13:24.... coming in the clouds.. gathering his elect ..
then bringing down the wrath.
Seems simple .... I don’t see any secret rapture.
If I’m missing it, I’d like to know.
I don’t think it matters what you think about the rapture as far as salvation ... but we are told to watch .. I want to know I’m watching for the right things .
——>I don’t think it matters what you think about the rapture as far as salvation ...
The billions of Christians on earth just before the tribulation, who end up receiving the Mark of the Beast, would probably disagree with you.
Those who believe in the PTR (Pre-Tribulation Rapture) believe that they will be long gone before they meet the Antichrist or have to deal with the MOTB. They won’t have a clue until it’s too late. Their salvation will be lost. There is absolutely no chance of salvation after receiving the MOTB. No second chances.
At the end of the world, everyone receives a “mark”. It’s either the Mark of the Beast, or the Seal of God.
All who believe in the false doctrine of the PTR also seem to believe in the equally false doctrine of Once Saved, always Saved, Once Judged, Always Judged (OSAS/OJAJ). Both come straight from the mind of Lucifer. Those who follow Christ obey God’s commandments/law. It is the standard in God’s judgment. You can bet the farm on it.
Those who believe in OSAS/OJAJ believe that obeying God’s law is optional (or that there is no law for them anymore, since their “Spirit” can’t sin, etc...), since nothing will affect their salvation after grace. No amount of willful, deliberate, unrepentant sin can keep them out of heaven (learn from Ravi Zacharias)
THEY CHOSE POORLY!
And BTW, the Rapture teaching that LITERAL Israel plays any role at the end of the world, is also one of Satan’s lies. That all ended 3.5 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. Satan will definitely use that to fool the masses.
I courtesy pinged you because you were in on the rapture conversation in this thread. Is that straight enough for you?
Not quite. I made it clear a few days ago that I had no further interest in communicating with you. Please respect that.
——>I made it clear a few days ago that I had no further interest in communicating with you. Please respect that.
If you post on a thread, you are fair game to any of the thousands of Freepers who may wish to respond, as long as they do it in a civil and rule-following manner. You may have a point with courtesy pings. Even if you don’t, I’ll refrain from ever sending one to you again. (only courtesy pings). If you receive a response from me to one of your posts, IGNORE IT (ignore me). That way YOU won’t be COMMUNICATING with me. Everyone else does it.
hmmmm .... there is a lot in your post ... a lot that I don't seem to find in the Bible.
But I suppose this first statement is as good a place to start as any.
I see ..
strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Matthew 7:14
Of course I'm just posting a snippet of the text .. I always try to read things in context ... but brevity and such ..
So .. the question “what is a Christian?”
Billions ? Why do you think there are/or will be billions?
“few there be that find it” seems a bit more limited to me.
And no I am not “pinging “ that douche bag.
I just read your interaction with that guy.
It's amazing that someone would get on a thread that discusses and debates Bible doctrine ... the one real issue that matters ... with an attitude like his.
IT sort of ties in with my question ..
What is a Christian?
I see ....
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12
What is “received him”?
What did he give them?
What does it mean to “believe on his name”?
I've tried to read some of those commentaries and deep theological study books but it seems like there are just to many differing opinions, I decided I can read as good anybody ... so I just read the Book now.
If it's in the Book ..I believe it.
If something looks contradictory .. it means I'm not understanding correctly.
If something comes up that I don't see... I'm glad to be shown.
Truth is a wonderful thing. The more you examine it, the more it reveals it self.
I had a pastor describe how Christ’s death and resurrection is to Satan how D-Day was to Hitler.
Hitler KNEW (heck, everybody knew) that the success of D-Day meant the defeat of Nazi Germany. Not that Hitler was just going to roll over and surrender, or that there still weren’t battles to be fought with lots of pain and suffering, but that the outcome of the war had been decided.
——>What does it mean to “believe on his name”?
That question is what it all boils down to.
——>Billions ? Why do you think there are/or will be billions?
There are about 2.5 billion Christians on the earth right now, give or take. Since the PTR is a lie, everyone living at the time of the tribulation will be here for the end. Most of them, “billions”, will receive the Mark of the Beast, because they have already been brainwashed by the Antichrist, and will gladly take the Mark when that time comes.
——>So ..the question “what is a Christian?”
Of those who call themselves Christians, who will be in heaven?
What does bible prophecy say about who the Beast/Antichrist power is, and what it’s MARK is?
Revelation 12:17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. 12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22: 12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Ecclesiastes 12:13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14For God shall bring every work into JUDGMENT, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Do you notice a theme in these texts?
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