"The Holy Apostle Luke Painted this Image" ~ The traditional Lucan origin of the icon of the Hodegetria

Gloria Romanorum ^ | October 18, 2022 | Florentius

[Antoninus]

For October 18 ~ The Feast of Saint Luke.

[BipolarBob]

This thread should probably have a Catholic Painting Caucus designation . . and that’s all I have to say about that.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

“Little Children, keep yourselves from idols.”

- Apostle John

[Antoninus]

Last time I checked, Christians were not Muslims. Representations of other human beings and of Jesus himself are not “idols”. The Byzantines worked this out 1,300 years ago.

[JesusIsLord]

As recorded by the 15th century Greek historian Constantine Dukas, the original Hodegetria icon was destroyed by the Turks after the sack of Constantinople in AD 1453. As the story goes, four Turkish looters found it in the Chora monastery where it had been placed to protect the city during the siege.

The alleged holy icon failed to protect Constantinople from the conquering Muslims. That should tell us something.

[one guy in new jersey]

Ugh....

[one guy in new jersey]

No.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> Last time I checked, Christians were not Muslims.

Last time I checked, the Apostle John in Holy Scripture was warning Christians to keep themselves from idols - not Muslims.

[Antoninus]

Last time I checked, the Apostle John in Holy Scripture was warning Christians to keep themselves from idols - not Muslims.

Because you declare something to be an idol, does not make it so. By doing so, you place yourself on the side of Emperor Leo the Isaurian and against Saint Germanus.

“If I am Jonah, cast me into the sea!” ~ Saint Germanus of Constantinople is deposed by Emperor Leo III

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> Because you declare something to be an idol

I did not…

I quoted the Apostle John.

You assumed/or made up the rest.

[Antoninus]

The alleged holy icon failed to protect Constantinople from the conquering Muslims. That should tell us something.

Yeah. That it was not an idol. It was the equivalent of the American flag or the rod of Moses.

[Antoninus]

I did not…I quoted the Apostle John.

Ah, so you go on threads and quote the Apostle John randomly. Got it.

The least you can do, as a Christian, is be intellectually honest.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

I quoted the apostle to warn Christians about idolatry.

[fidelis]

I quoted the apostle to warn Christians about idolatry.

"There are some things in them [the writings of the Apostles] hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures." (2 Peter 3:16)

[MurphsLaw]

The alleged holy icon failed to protect Constantinople from the conquering Muslims.
That should tell us something.

So by your logic,
the Holy Icons found in St. Peter's Basillica in Rome - on Vatican Hill-
(The Hill on the "right" side of the Tiber- and NOT on one the "Seven Hills" you'd be further tempted into falsehood with)

Icons that existed in the Most Holy, Sacred Structure, home of the Papacy...
that HAS withstood conquering Muslims, barbarians, Fascism,etc. for almost 2000 years- by YOUR logic of perserverance- with regard to Icons

"That should ALSO then tell us something... about St. Peter's..."

No?

[CJ Wolf]

It is a good quote. This is an icon not an idol. Icons are basically graphic representations. I am not familiar with this one but if it was painted by Luke I’d say it was pretty cool historically and worthy of a look and preservation as well as being honored.

The Bible is also a record of history but we don’t worship the Bible or the words written in it. We worship God.

I haven’t seen him yet but feel his presence every day. When I do eventually see him, I would expect that experience to be not like any another that I have seen, experienced or has been described to me.

God bless y’all

[Scarlett156]

“The words ‘graven image’ are first found in Exodus 20:4 of the King James Version of the Bible: ‘Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’ It is a phrase that literally refers to an idol, whether made of wood, stone, metal, silver, gold, or other items.”

I share this sentiment about images, although I frankly admit to being a painter and writer of made-up stuff - it’s something that’s been with me from childhood, and has been rather hard to quit.

St Luke was a great fellow. If he painted images, it only makes me feel closer to him. I read that he actually met and spoke with people in JC’s family, like his mother.

But remember how only a short time ago (20 or so years, which is a short time to someone my age) there was this saying “pics or it didn’t happen”....? Photos/images prove nothing.

Always remember that. Images are misleading.

[newfreep]

15th century Greek representation of St. Luke painting the Hodegetria icon.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

—> This is an icon not an idol

Either can be treated as an idol - as can money and many other things.

—> we don’t worship the Bible or the words written in it.

Yes, some wrongly turn Scripture itself into an idol.

[Hebrews 11:6]

Who declared Luke to be an Apostle? Did Paul’s Apostleship rub off on him? I am aware he wrote an Epistle to Theophilus—was that actually an Apostle-Epistle, like Paul’s and John’s? It’s difficult trying to keep up....