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[Catholic Caucus] Pope Francis says ‘traditionalism’ is ‘infidelity’ to the Catholic Church and Vatican II
LifeSite News ^ | October 12, 2022 | MIchael Hanes

Posted on 10/13/2022 2:30:08 PM PDT by ebb tide

[Catholic Caucus] Pope Francis says ‘traditionalism’ is ‘infidelity’ to the Catholic Church and Vatican II

‘Traditionalism’ is a form ‘of a Pelagian selfishness that puts our own tastes and plans above the love that pleases God, the simple, humble and faithful love that Jesus asked of Peter,’ said Pope Francis.

VATICAN CITY (LifeSiteNews) – Marking the 60th anniversary of the start of the Second Vatican Council, Pope Francis attacked “traditionalism” as being “evidence … of infidelity” to the Catholic Church.

The Argentinian Pontiff made his remarks in his homily during a Mass in St. Peter’s Basilica on October 10, marking the 60th anniversary of the opening of the ecumenical Second Vatican Council. 

Using a passage from St. John’s Gospel – “Do you love me? Feed my sheep” – Francis launched his attack on the traditionalist movement. 

Stating that “we are always tempted to start from ourselves rather than from God, to put our own agendas before the Gospel,” he decried those who wished to “retrace our steps.” 

“Yet let us be careful,” he said, “both the ‘progressivism’ that lines up behind the world and the ‘traditionalism’ – or ‘looking backwards’ – that longs for a bygone world are not evidence of love, but of infidelity.”

Francis styled both “traditionalism” and “progressivism” as “forms of a Pelagian selfishness that puts our own tastes and plans above the love that pleases God, the simple, humble and faithful love that Jesus asked of Peter.”

Praising the Council for its actions, Francis stated that it “rediscovered the living river of Tradition without remaining mired in traditions.”

He told the assembled congregation not to be concerned with being “on the climb” towards heaven, or with attempts to “shepherd yourselves.” Rather, Francis urged a rejection of everything in the service of fraternity. 

How often, in the wake of the Council, did Christians prefer to choose sides in the Church, not realizing that they were breaking their Mother’s heart! How many times did they prefer to cheer on their own party rather than being servants of all? To be progressive or conservative rather than being brothers and sisters? To be on the “right” or “left,” rather than with Jesus? 

Francis opposes Latin Mass but warns of ‘polarization’

In promoting Vatican II, Francis’ homily was flush with ironic phraseology. While his 2021 restrictions on the traditional Mass were entitled Traditionis custodes (guardians of Tradition), Francis yesterday attacked those who “present themselves as ‘guardians of the truth’ or ‘pioneers of innovation’ rather than seeing themselves as humble and grateful children of Holy Mother Church.”

READ: Abp Viganò on the ‘roots of deviation’ of Vatican II and how Francis was chosen to revolutionize the Church

His restrictions on the ancient liturgy, pronounced in the name of Vatican II, have since decimated parishes and communities, yet Francis said that the Church should “leave aside the ‘isms,’ for God’s people do not like polarization.”

“How timely the Council remains,” he argued. “It helps us reject the temptation to enclose ourselves within the confines of our own comforts and convictions. The Council helps us imitate God’s approach, which the prophet Ezekiel has described to us today: ‘Seek the lost sheep and lead back to the fold the stray, bind up the injured and strengthen the weak’ (cf. Ezek 34:16).”

The Pontiff closed by repeating his call to “let us overcome all polarization and preserve our communion.” 

However, some pointed to Francis’ own record on “polarization,” warning that his homily was a promotion of his assault on the Church’s Tradition. “This is Bergoglian speak for ending the Traditional Latin Mass,” wrote catechist Deacon Nick Donnelly.

“Let us overcome all polarization and preserve our communion!” said – (pope) Bergoglio during his homily on the 60th anniversary of Vatican II

This is Bergoglian speak for ending the Traditional Latin Mass

He plans to enforce the Novus Ordo as the only expression of communion

— Nick Donnelly (@ProtecttheFaith) October 11, 2022

Donnelly added that Francis has “relentlessly attacked ‘the living river of Tradition’ since the beginning of his pontificate.”

Vatican II underpinning current pontificate

Francis and his close advisors have continually cited Vatican II in their recent moves against the Church’s Tradition, including in Traditionis custodes and the current Synod on Synodality. Indeed, the latter has been described as “an extension” of Vatican II since the process was announced last year.

READ: ‘A different Church’: Pope calls for synod on synodality to usher in ‘change’

Speaking to LifeSiteNews last year, Matt Gaspers – managing editor of Catholic Family News – said that the Synod: “calls to mind what Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò wrote in his first major intervention regarding the Council (June 9, 2020), namely, ‘that from Vatican II onwards a parallel church was built, superimposed over and diametrically opposed to the true Church of Christ. This parallel church progressively obscured the divine institution founded by Our Lord in order to replace it with a spurious entity, corresponding to the desired universal religion that was first theorized by Masonry’.”

Full statement by Catholic bishops and scholars correcting Pope Francis' heresy - LifeSiteNews

Vatican II intended as ‘pastoral’ not ‘doctrinal’

While the Second Vatican Council is regularly and overwhelmingly referenced in the modern day Vatican and current pontificate, both Popes of the Council — John XXIII and Paul VI — and Vatican II itself clearly stated that, unlike all previous Councils, it had neither the aim nor the intention to propose its own doctrine in a definitive and infallible way. 

RELATED: EWTN host blasts Pope Francis’ supporters who ‘blindly hate’ conservative Catholics

In his address at the solemn opening of the Council, Pope John XXIII said: “The main purpose of this Council is not, therefore, the discussion of one or another theme of the fundamental doctrine of the Church.” He added that the character of the Council’s magisterium would be “predominantly pastoral” (October 11, 1962). 

Meanwhile Pope Paul VI said in his address at the last public session of the Council, that Vatican II “made its program” from “the pastoral character” (7 December 1965). Furthermore, as Bishop Athanasius Schneider has recalled, a November 16, 1964, note by the Council’s Secretary-General reads: “Taking conciliar custom into consideration and also the pastoral purpose of the present Council, the sacred Council defines as binding on the Church only those things in matters of faith and morals which it shall openly declare to be binding.”


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: antipope; apostatepope; frankenchurch; modernism; progressivistheresy; vcii
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1 posted on 10/13/2022 2:30:08 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Al Hitan; Fedora; irishjuggler; Jaded; JoeFromSidney; kalee; markomalley; miele man; Mrs. Don-o; ...

Ping


2 posted on 10/13/2022 2:31:27 PM PDT by ebb tide (Where are the good fruits of the Second Vatican Council? Anyone?)
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: ebb tide

Strange since the Novus Ordo is all about the celebration of self, unlike the Traditional Mass.


4 posted on 10/13/2022 2:48:58 PM PDT by yuleeyahoo (The nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master and deserves one. Hamilton)
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To: ebb tide

I know there are plenty of people who like the Latin Mass. for me, it reminds me of the days of our pedophile pastor. Plus I don’t understand Latin. Sure I can learn what some Latin words mean, but I got too used to the current version in English. I’m sure the Latin Mass lovers will now flame me. Go ahead…..but I’m very serious about the thoughts that run through my head about Fr. Haen


5 posted on 10/13/2022 2:51:16 PM PDT by irish guard
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To: ebb tide

Why a South American Jesuit was selected boggles the mind.


6 posted on 10/13/2022 2:52:02 PM PDT by EEGator
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To: irish guard

I’m sorry for your bad experience.

Rest assured that those who love the Trad. Latin Mass would not try to extinguish the Novus Ordo.

Most of us also attend the Novus Ordo when no TLM is available.


7 posted on 10/13/2022 2:56:19 PM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: paterfamilias

I’ve had many conversations with a very good priest friend about the Latin Mass thing. We talk regularly and I’ll live with my own thoughts. Others can go if it works for them. Not really sure why the pope even cares? I’d have thought he would just be happy people are going to Mass


8 posted on 10/13/2022 3:00:30 PM PDT by irish guard
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To: ebb tide

Traditional Catholics believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist and their actions at mass consistently reflect that belief. There are many who claim to be catholic but do not believe in the real presence. That is very evident in some churches. Read the prayers in a Latin missal that the priest says as he approaches the alter, and compare that to the “opening joke” often said by some priests to “warm up the crowd”. The “bells and smells” of the traditional church make good use of our senses too, which are so prone to distraction at mass. I love to look at the stained glass and all the saint statues and the stations of the cross in a beautiful traditional church. It helps me wonder in amazement about the depth and endless riches in the faith.


9 posted on 10/13/2022 3:03:27 PM PDT by Allthesaints
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To: ebb tide

Francis styled both “traditionalism” and “progressivism” as “forms of a Pelagian selfishness that puts our own tastes and plans above the love that pleases God, the simple, humble and faithful love that Jesus asked of Peter.
Xxxxxxx
As always must we not ask if what is said above true?

IMO, perhaps it is true and what Jesus asked of Peter is applicable to all of us. It surely must be true we are to be orthodox Roman Catholics, but never either Traditionalists or Progressives?
Holy Spirit please guide us.


10 posted on 10/13/2022 3:07:08 PM PDT by amihow (It is Western Civilization that confers privilege, not whiteness. Ask Carson, MLK, Sowell.)
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To: irish guard

If you are lucky enough to be near one, go to an Anglican Rite Mass.

There are good reasons for the Latin, but it can be an obstacle for some. However, the main problem with the Novus Ordo is not the language, but that it has less focus on the adoration of God and more on ourselves, the selective splicing of some of the readings, and the poor training/formation of the priests.


11 posted on 10/13/2022 3:08:28 PM PDT by rmichaelj (Ave Maria gratia plena, Dominus tecum.)
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To: ebb tide
Vatican II was not created by Christ. It was created by renegade clerics. The Bible does not demand, nor sanction, fidelity to Vatican II.

12 posted on 10/13/2022 3:09:01 PM PDT by Governor Dinwiddie (LORD, grant thy people grace to withstand the temptations of the world, the flesh, and the devil.)
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To: ebb tide; All

Traditionalist Catholics should now feel as do those who loyally served in the US armed forces who have Confederate ancestors now feel. Frankie is telling you there is no place for you in your church. This is betrayal from within.


13 posted on 10/13/2022 3:12:29 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: rmichaelj

I agree. It’s not offered everywhere, but it is a wonderful Rite, closer to the old Mass than Novus Ordo. The Anglican Rite might be even be harder to track down than a Latin Mass.


14 posted on 10/13/2022 3:13:04 PM PDT by Governor Dinwiddie (LORD, grant thy people grace to withstand the temptations of the world, the flesh, and the devil.)
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To: amihow
forms of a Pelagian selfishness that puts our own tastes and plans above the love that pleases God, the simple, humble and faithful love that Jesus asked of Peter.

While it is true that some may attend the Traditional Mass due to aesthetics- Most do so because they recognize that God wishes to be worshipped in certain ways and that the Novus Ordo does not fulfill those wishes. Notice the emphasis is on what God wants- not on what we want.

Conversely, it is the Novus Ordo that was created as a marketing ploy to convert protestants (to appeal to their particular tastes). This is well documented. Of course it failed miserably because why would a protestant convert to something that looks more like one of their services when they can just stay where they are.

There is a real difference between the two masses, both in the effect it has on those going and in one's relationship with God. It is a disengenous straw man to present the choice as one of personal tastes.

15 posted on 10/13/2022 3:21:27 PM PDT by rmichaelj (Ave Maria gratia plena, Dominus tecum.)
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To: Allthesaints

I am not a Catholic, but your remarks sum up what I, as a young man courting an Irish girl, what struck me so powerfully about the totality of your religious experience. It was to me like a religio-cultural experience of the highest order, I literally felt as though I could glimpse what that incredibly powerful phrase ‘the Power and the Glory’ intimated. This stuff just makes me all the more disgusted and despairing of my country and culture.


16 posted on 10/13/2022 3:24:01 PM PDT by robowombat
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To: ebb tide

Step down, Bergoglio.


17 posted on 10/13/2022 3:49:57 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Trump will be sworn in under a shower of confetti made from the tattered remains of the Rat Party.)
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To: irish guard
I know there are plenty of people who like the Latin Mass. for me, it reminds me of the days of our pedophile pastor.

What do Teddy McCarrick and James Martin, S.J. remind you of? Novus Ordo "saints"?

18 posted on 10/13/2022 4:22:25 PM PDT by ebb tide (Where are the good fruits of the Second Vatican Council? Anyone?)
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To: ebb tide

He’s an apostate

Not my Pope!


19 posted on 10/13/2022 4:40:37 PM PDT by bantam
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To: irish guard

“I’d have thought he would just be happy people are going to Mass”

Agreed


20 posted on 10/13/2022 4:57:41 PM PDT by paterfamilias
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