Speaking Of Schisms

The reason For my Faith ^ | 5/21/22 | Chuck Ness

[PeterPrinciple]

The Bible is a Catholic book.

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If you read your Bible, you would soon see that there is very little new information there. The early church tested everything with the OT.

Act_17:11 And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul’s message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

Do you test everything with God’s word, or do you blindly follow tradition and what others tell you?

Do you know what Jesus says about traditions?

[OneVike]

Jesus came to divide so division is not a bad thing. What is Jesus point of division?

And you will see in my commentary I mention that not all schisms are bad. Some are created by GOD, but the vast majority are by men for personal reasons, thus many of the new denominations of Protestantism grew out of the way one person thinks a church should look like or over a secondary difference that should not be used to create a division over.

Yet some Christ was behind, like the Protestant Reformation, and the 1054 schism.

So depending upon which schism we are talking about it could be by GOD or by man.

Jesus did say HE came to divide, but in so that HE knew men would reject the truth, so instead they would perpetrate a lie to lead many astray. Telling the truth because HE knows the future is one thing, claiming HE is doing it himself is another. A fine line, but one must understand the difference.

As Paul told Herod, I would that all men believed, but Paul knew all men would not, and thus the schism.

Christ called all, and wants all to come to HIM, but knows many will not, because the teachings will be too difficult for many men to accept. In that HE knew divisions would happen, even if HE did not want it to. Recognizing and taking blame are too different things. Knowing the difference comes from understanding that in GOD there is nothing that is evil or wrong. Thus, ultimately it is men's hearts that create the divisions.

So even if GOD condones a schism, HE does so, knowing it is best. It is an example of GOD using what men mean for evil, for HIS glory. Our free will gets in the way, and thus HE will use it for his glory.

[PeterPrinciple]

The point of division is , Who is Jesus? is it not?

That is the point of unification also.

Other points of division such as what color the kitchen walls should be should lead us to “who is Jesus?” and unification, but sadly, it does not.

Scripturally the following speaks.

Co 11:18 First, I hear that there are divisions among you when you meet as a church, and to some extent I believe it.
1Co 11:19 But, of course, there must be divisions among you so that you who have God’s approval will be recognized!

There is much to reflect on there. It is not simple. IT is not a prescription which many want. A relationship with God is a wild ride. “Aslan is not a tame lion.”

I would add to your comments that division reveals hearts.

[metmom]

It puts us in control, I think.

[metmom]

The Bible is a Catholic book.

Nope, Scripture was written by the Jews, with the exception of Luke.

Then Mad Marty chopped it down to 66 books.

No, he didn’t but that never stopped Catholics from repeating that lie.

Luther Bible

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Bible

“ The Luther Bible (German: Lutherbibel) is a German language Bible translation from Latin sources by Martin Luther. The New Testament was first published in September 1522, and the complete Bible, containing the Old and New Testaments with Apocrypha, in 1534.”

Nor did the Catholic church decide on the official canon of its Bible at the Council of Trent until AFTER Luther translated the books he did.

https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/canon-of-the-holy-scriptures

” The most explicit definition of the Catholic Canon is that given by the Council of Trent, Session IV, 1546. For the O. T. its catalogue reads as follows: “The five books of Moses (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy), Josue, Judges, Ruth, the four books of Kings, two of Paralipomenon, the first and second of Esdras (which latter is called Nehemias), Tobias, Judith, Esther, Job, the Davidic Psalter (in number one hundred and fifty Psalms), Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Canticle of Canticles, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Isaias, Jeremias, with Baruch, Ezechiel, Daniel, the twelve minor Prophets (Osee, Joel, Amos, Abdias, Jonas, Micheas, Nahum, Habacuc, Sophonias, Aggeus, Zacharias, Malachias), two books of Machabees, the first and second”. The order of books copies that of the Council of Florence, 1442, and in its general plan is that of the Septuagint. The divergence of titles from those found in the Protestant versions is due to the fact that the official Latin Vulgate retained the forms of the Septuagint.”

[metmom]

All of those Reformation-era state churches are basically apostate now, and church attendance is a thing of the past.

There’s the pot calling the kettle black.

You guys have a College of Cardinals who elected Francis as pope.

And Catholicism is the state religion of many countries yet.

You all are in no position to be finger pointing.

[OneVike]

I would agree, and I truly like your final statement. It is our final actions that often times reveal who we truly are.

When an disagreement gets out of control, one who will turn the cheek, while the one with the problem is often times the one who must have the last word. In a church dispute, that can often times be seen in a schism.

[PeterPrinciple]

The Bible is a Catholic book. We decided which writings were scripture and which were not based on teachings and tradition.

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And right there you reveal the danger of traditions. They morph and change over time. They are not solid like God’s word.

You dont even know your tradition properly. If you checked some original sources, you would know the terminology was RECEIVED. Now, who were the scriptures received from?

You did not decide.

[Texas_Guy]

Nope, sacred Tradition is different. Look at what St. Paul says about holding fast to the traditions he taught. If you can’t trust that you would not know which books go in the Bible. Spurious books such as the gospel of Judas or shepherd of hermas would be included.

Here is a succinct history of how the canon of the Bible was formed.

https://youtu.be/AT5CoiOyaWo

[PeterPrinciple]

Understand Jesus warning regarding traditions. do you know what his warning is?

Traditions change as you have demonstrated. God’s word does not. Trust Gods word alone.

Read the Bible for yourself, don’t let others tell you what it says.

[MurphsLaw]

The First Bible printed, in Germany no less- about 100 Years before Luther- (and Trent) was the 73 book Catholic Church Latin Vulgate Bible- based on St. Jerome’s version, over 1000 years prior.

Gutenberg chose to print the Bible - 73 books - as that was the Bible of his day- in Germany.
So was Gutenberg wrong?
You would think that’s what the used to celebrate Mass with.
Now maybe Gutenberg just got lucky and coincidentally got the number of books exactly right For his Bible, including Sirach, ( not 70- or 71.... but the 73 we use today)- but that’s really a stretch. Copies of that Bible still exist.

What Luther did was remove books- using an anti-Christian Masoretic perspective as his “authentic” Guide to do so.
And then the enter the Dead Sea Scrolls, and mess that all up.
Septuagint rises in stature... from the dust.