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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
It was encouragement so that you don’t quit after your first attempt in despair.
Now, let’s go over again your belief that Ellen White saw people living on other planets and saw Enoch visiting them.
Do you really believe that?
Maybe post it another 5x.
“ In 1981 the church hired
All you need to know.
1) Ramik had been raised a Roman Catholic (though not a “practicing” Catholic at the time of his research [read interview below]) and one of the books he examined was, in fact, The Great Controversy—not exactly flattering to that Church or the Pope.
2) Ramik later admitted in an interview that he had been biased against Ellen White when he went into the project, for he had read the work of many of her critics from D.M. Canright right up to the pre-publication manuscript of The White Lie itself.
------------------------------------------------ Dude, how many times does someone have to tell you not to pretend to read someone's mind/conscience, and put it in print on this forum?
Is it POSSIBLE that the ENTIRE exercise of 2,500 plus posts ALLOWED by the GOOD LORD was to allow us to DISCOVER our OWN possible TRUTH?
"He Who Knows, DOES NOT SPEAK.. He Who Speaks, DOES NOT KNOW!"
It may just be that GOD'S TRUTH is ONLY KNOWABLE and NOT SPEAKABLE.
Maybe post it another 5x.
“ In 1981 the church hired
All you need to know.
Miller & Martin PLLC was hired by Ravi Zacharapist International Ministries (“RZIM”) to conduct
an independent investigation into these allegations.
I guess they should have hired Vincent Ramik (nah, wouldn’t have changed anything....)
—> Ramik later admitted in an interview that he had been biased
Hey! A non-practicing is as interested in $300 billable hours as any other attorney…
“Yo, Ramik, my cousin Vinny said you can write up a report for us - any way we want it to come out? That right??”
“Who is this? What’s Vinny’s last name? Where’d you meet him?”
“And assuming I like your answers, my rate is $500/hour for favorable reports.”
“Yes. We’ve got loads of money! That would be great!!”
…
OK Professor! Drop and prove he was honest.
Also show why two previous studies reached a different result.
Follow the rules. Mind reading isn’t allowed.
What “studies” and by whom? Were any of them from a specialist in patent, trademark, and copyright law? Please show me those. Go...
Posted up thread and linked by luircin.
——>OK Professor! Drop and prove he was honest.
The burden of proof is on YOU, Professor B.T. AMPU
no idea what that means
I reiterate: "He Who Knows, DOES NOT SPEAK.. He Who Speaks, DOES NOT KNOW!"
Sorry, but he’s your witness. He was paid by your people.
He had a conflict of interest and his opinion conflicted with earlier research.
So I don’t buy it as a legitimate opinion at all.
sum ting wong
——>So I don’t buy it as a legitimate opinion at all.
I’ll take the opinion of a specialist in patent, trademark, and copyright law over you, any day. He was initially biased AGAINST EGW right from the start. And Ramik being Catholic? Your assertion is laughable.
Opinion:
Ramik was given all the allegations of plagiarism from the first raised in 1889 to 1981.
“Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents, we conclude that Ellen G. White was not a plagiarist and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.” (Adventist Review, Sept. 17, 1981)
“Considering all factors necessary in reaching a just conclusion on this issue, it is submitted that the writings of Ellen G. White were conclusively unplagiaristic.” (Ibid)
The air is rapidly going OUT of your balloon.
Even the login name you post with, "Philsworld", defines you as someone locked into his own little world and is always eager to defend it.
I have read the majority of posts on this VERY LENGTHY thread and i have read and heard MUCH TRUTH in MANY POSTS.
That would lead me to conclude, perhaps.. "ALL WAYS are the WAYS!"
—> I’ll take the opinion of
Your posting history leaves no doubt that you would believe anything supportive of the false religion and deny any fact that demonstrates it’s true character.
Heck, you even posted you believe White visited other worlds, saw unfallen people there, and saw Enoch visiting them.
Your posting history doesn’t paint you as objective.
——>Your posting history leaves no doubt that you would believe anything supportive of the false religion and deny any fact that demonstrates it’s true character.
because you say it’s a false religion? Any religion that doesn’t believe in keeping the commandments of God IS a false religion. Add OSAS and the PTR and you have a trifecta. THAT is a true FALSE religion.
Why don’t you read up on those two links I posted on the remnant.
—> because you say it’s a false religion?
No, because your religion was founded by and follows as an authority a false prophet who was a spirit medium.
Because your false religion uses her writings as an authority over the Scriptures…
And because of the heresy it teaches.
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