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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
Paul wrote this for you, Phil: Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
No surprise.
But you insisted no believer would answer your question. I answered it simply and directly.
You appear to simply be cult blinded by your life experience.
Nor am I arguing with you, because no one is argued into the kingdom… and the Scripture is illumined to the saved.
The unsaved can’t understand it. I suspect strongly, based only on what you wrote, that you do not have salvation. And if not, you certainly won’t understand the unity of God’s Word - or it’s meaning. This is spiritually discerned. The natural mind cannot accept it.
So I simply release you back into the wild, where you can participate in your chosen (false) religion.
And perhaps God may grant you the grace - in His chosen moment - to open your eyes to His amazing grace and draw you to Himself.
May it be so, and soon! The days are short… and I wish you eternal life.
You always know how to reach me when that day comes.
I wish you well.
Why do you insist on focusing on Ravi Zacharias so pridefully?
He’s just a convenient Christian poster boy that fits your Satanic, false OSAS paradigm to a tee.
How weak is the god you believe in that He needs your filthy rags to clean you up and abide in your human spirit, tio await the moment when He removes all of His before pouring out His wrath on the unbelieving world?
Does Phuil believe eternal life can begin before death overtakes him?
Why did John tell us God abides in the spirit of those who are vborn again in the now?
Why were the believers called Christians at Antioch?
Are you sinless, Phil?
Do you even start to comprehend what Paul explained, that when we are born again in the now we have the righteousness of Christ IMPUTED to us?
Can a spirit with God abiding therein commit sin? If so, how does the yo-yo trick get Him Presence back?
Do you, like Catholics, believe Jesus established the seventh day adventist religion?
How do you think God will deal with your effort to divert attention to Ravi rather than Phil? Think, ***son***, your eternity is teetering in the balance.
Look, Gramps, you have no idea what you are talking about. Everyone knows that no matter how many times Ravi raped those women, made them give him happy endings, used his position to get them into bed, or committed adultery on his wife, he’s still going to heaven. Sin doesn’t apply to Born Againers. You already told me that, so it must be true. There’s a crown up there right now with Ravi’s name on it, albeit missing a few jewels and gold because of the rapes, etc... (sarc)
You always know how to reach me when that day comes.
I thought you told me never to ping you? I was pretty surprised that you ping’d me to be honest.
Do you, like Catholics, believe Jesus established the seventh day adventist religion?
I didn’t know that Catholics believed Jesus established the SDA religion. That’s news to me.
Can a spirit with God abiding therein commit sin?
Poster Boy Ravi did, and he was saved by grace.
Sorry Phil, you are again WRONG. Ravi’s flesh nature sinned. If he was born again his spirit could not sin because The God would be abiding therein. That is your stuymbling stone, Phil.
Do you even start to comprehend what Paul explained, that when we are born again in the now we have the righteousness of Christ IMPUTED to us?
Then maybe someone should have told (that fella) Paul not to write what he did in Hebrews 10 about people who THINK they commit sin and hide behind the blood of the covenant and grace. Explain that if you can.
If he was born again....
Are you telling all of us that he wasn’t?
How foolish do you want to appear, Phil? ‘If’ is not a declarative. Your mind is truly warped, Phil.
If you find yourself ready to come to Him for salvation, pm me. Or if you are moving toward Him and would like a conversation to sort things out.
Best
It’s no surprise you said this. It makes you a Nicolaitan, pure and simple. Using God’s grace to justify a free pass on willful, non-repentant sin will cause many born againers to lose their salvation.
I've seen this kind of behavior before...
Lessee...Was it in #192 or #175???
or maybe 225?
Tsk tsk tsk, there you go again. Once a human being is born again, they cannot become unborn. If you need help with this, start at John 3 and Jesus’s conversation with Nicodemus. Note if you can that Jesus refers Nic back to the serpent on the pole in the desert. There is deep meaning there which apparently you either have yet to grasp or have decided to reject. After you get that passage studied, I will give you more. But know this, Phil, your bullying, baiting, and efforts to promote false witness are exposing a very bad spirit in you. God can take care of that predicament, if you will let Him do it: faithful is he that calletyh you for He will also do it; many are called but few are chosen; so if many are called why are sop few chosen? ... Because they refuse to let HIM do the work because their pride insists they aren’t so bad as to need absolute Grace.
And I’ll make sure to do the same (pm you) when the MOTB issue is about ready to hit the earth. That will validate everything I have claimed as the truth (also, look for the revealing of the Ark of the Covenant as well, exactly where Ron Wyatt said it was...)
Until then, (or the next time you send me something out of the blue)
Regards
tsk tsk tsk, there you go again. Once a human being is born again, they cannot become unborn.
Hebrews 10 (Paul) says the exact opposite. Are you calling Paul a liar?
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