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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
Wait!
Is broomcorn Johnny in Falseworld? Does he post here???
Well played!
You might be right bro. I would prefer all people get saved, but some just won’t be saved. There is precious little we can do to help, but we did what we were told to do. Present the gospel, and leave the rest up to God. 👍
You’re in a maze of twisty little passages, all different.
There are scrolls to be found here.
It ain’t “Pilgrim’s Progress” but...
https://www.ifiction.org/games/playz.php
Well played!
***
...I don’t get it.
So were the NT times. Luckily we now have Paula White, Juanita Bynum, and Gloria Copeland.
Speaking in general terms only. Maybe I should have said that I do my best to keep... If we do sin (and we all do), we need to confess and repent. No human is perfect.
I’ve heard of a corn dog, but never a corn broom. Sounds corny.
——>I truly cannot see how OSAS can stand up against the Scriptures, that the angel had John to record for eternity, here.
Now you’ve gone and done it!
——>The Heavenly Father can chasten His Own, even unto physical death (which we must all experience anyway), but not a loss of the never-rescinded eternal life in the Spirit that the Savior has promised. If it ever quits, it’s not eternal, and therefore He must be lying about it, right?
The lake of fire will be filled with people who thought that. The Nicolaitans come to mind. Faith without works, is a DEAD faith. Grace then means nothing. Obedience matters.
Rev 14:12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
I guess they didn’t have Keurig machines back then? Dunkin Donuts? That would have saved him a lot of hassle.
If only that were true (but it's not). It's also totally ridiculous for you to say such a thing.
Romans 6:15
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Now go back and re read Hebrews 10:26-31.
——>What Philsworld is showing us that by claiming that OSAS does NOT exist not only does not have faith enough to BE saved by faith, but as long as he (she?) holds that opinion can never be given that gift which is far more precious than he values it.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
OF HOW MUCH SORER PUNISHMENT...
...DESPITE UNTO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE.
Were your sins ‘blotted out’ at the Cross? The more you flounder around putting scripture passages together that do not belong together, the closer you are to agreeing with the cultists. If you desire to have to stand for judgment at the Great White Throne, God will not put yoou in His hand and thus you will have to stand at the Great White Throne for judgment. As for me and fellow members of The Body of Christ, we have already been judged IN the cross and will not be required to stabnd at The Great White Throne for judgment because our sins were hid with Christ and He certainly is not to be judged at the Great White Throne.
Rev 13:5, 8 (ESV)
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. ... 8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Is it hard to believe that before the Universe was even created, God as The Word, had a knowledge/listing of/for the humans descended from Adam who would believe in Whom God sends for their redemption? God knows the end from the beginning. The imagery used is a book with names listed therein. To an ancient Israeli that would be a scroll rather than a book with front and back cover and pages inside.
The Cross of Christ shed the blood of the innocent sacrifice and ALL who believe in Him are already judged. That puts ALL the glory on Him Who took our sin debt upon Himself.
In the perspective of a scroll with names written on it, who would be writing or putting the names on the scroll? Who would blot a name off of the scroll? No flesh has that capability, and no flesh has the judging capacity to determine what names are written and which are blotted out. Now let's look at what Jesus accomplished on the Cross.
When Jesus gave His life for humankind ALL humans will be brought back to life, either at the Rapture of the Body of Believers or at the Great White Throne of Judgment. Those brought back to a glorified body and soul are already then alive, resurrected before the Great White Throne happens so they are in Christ and not scheduled for judgment. At the Great White Throne of Judgment a very different scale is used to determine which resurrected will remain out of the separation 'pool' of fire and which will descend into that separation pool for eternity. Since we who get Raptured before the Great White Throne event are already determined in Christ, Graced with His Righteousness, we will not only not be standing for judgment by this different scale but will already be alive away from the pool because we have the Holy Spirit IN our human spirit and He will never leave us so He is not going into the pool for eternity.
I'm an old man and nearly blind, but I do believe I have been given a clarity by the indwelling Presence and that clarity discerns error when my eyes input a passage that does not line up with the Word of God I have been ingesting since 1972.
The Great White Throne is the destiny of ALL who have not been redeemed by the blood of the Christ. That is why today is the day and this is the hour when salvation can haoppen for any who will entrust their eternity to Him, to His shed blood Given for our redemption. To reject that blood is to choose to stand at the Great White Throne and be judged accordign to the life scroll. In God's Mercy and LOve He is The Sovereign and separate sheep from goats. As a blood bought member of the Body of Christ such a judging is not your destginy for you (generic 'you') are IN Christ, a new creation.
Meant to include you in the ping, m’Lady. The post is just dripping with Chuck Missler teachings.
Your thinking is so flesh-bound that you cannot properly grasp even what God's gift means, let alone accept it, nor consider a Spirit-guided interpretation of the Scripture that explains salvation and its consequences anything but foolishness.
It's a waste of time for anyone to answer your posts, because in your unsaved state God is not permitting you to receive and agree with the deep things of the Spirit embodied in the writings meant only for the maturity of His children that are already saved.
Just read the salutations of those epistles that tell the reader who it is meant for. Most of the time, you are apparently not one of them.
—> and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.
Praise be to God alone for His Indescribable Gift
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