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Locked on 04/24/2022 5:40:39 AM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childishness |
Posted on 03/06/2022 11:16:06 AM PST by CharlesOConnell
A man commits a serious crime, then he gets released. He has "paid his debt to society". But wait a minute, he's only ready for the half-way house. He's unlikely to get a prestigious job in his new prison suit coat, or any job at all; he has civil impediments, he can't vote or hold certain offices. His crime was serious enough that he won't be presumed to have been completely rehabilitated until he performs a notable service to society, or at least spends many years on the straight and narrow, so that his crime can be truly overlooked or forgotten.
In Catholic faith, your "debt to society" is paid by Jesus Christ on Calvary. It's called "eternal punishment", without Christ it keeps you from going to heaven. Supposing that you do take advantage of His sacrifice, you're truly sorry, have a firm purpose of amendment, if you relapse, you go again for forgiveness (to the Sacrament of Confession).
But your sin leaves a strong trace at another layer of impurity called "temporal punishment due to sin", like the civil impediments facing the half-way house prisoner. Because "nothing impure can enter heaven", there is a place or a state, a condition of purification to render you fit for heaven after Christ has finally saved you from hell. The Catholic Church calls it purgatory.
(Where is it in the bible? Where is the word Trinity in the bible? Where does it say that you only need a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Many valid principles aren't stated explicitly in the bible, but it does say to "hold fast to the traditions you have learned, whether by word or by letter", because much of the Gospel wasn't written down, as Jesus only wrote in the sand, the majority of the Gospel was taught from word to ear to people who couldn't afford expensive books, the exceptions were what tended to get written down. But the implication that there is a purgatory, is contained in the bible--see the comments.)
The ex-con can receive a pardon or commutation of his probation from a Governor, if he performs some heroic deed, saving numerous lives, or, like Chuck Colson, performs a long-lasting, valuable community service helping numerous people who can't help themselves.
In the Catholic Church there are 2 ways for the residual, temporal effects due to sin to be expiated: suffering in this life, or after life, undergoing purifying suffering along with other people who will finally be saved, but have to suffer for long without the vision of God--that is what causes them their pain.
Their suffering isn't meritorious enough to grant their release, the saints in heaven and those on earth suffering and practicing virtue can pray for the suffering souls in purgatory. In no way is their release by slow transfer of suffering or practice of virtue, "buying heaven". It's a long, excruciating process.
How the misunderstanding arose that Catholics think they can buy their way into heaven, is involved with history more than 500 years old. For a millennium of Christendom between roughly 410 and 1410, there was a Medieval civilization with harmony between faith and government.
Many small farmers would cluster around the manor house of a military lord who would protect them, in exchange for a certain fixed obligation of labor and agricultural produce. In most cases, those "serfs" had much more leisure than factory workers of the industrial revolution; there were a large number of holy days without work, and except for planting and harvesting, there were long stretches of idle time.
Another large sector of the economy surrounded monasteries, where the monks developed most of the farming practices that stabilized the serfs and their manorial lords. The monks who worked those monastic lands were sworn to poverty, so that monasteries built up large accumulations of economic value over decades and centuries of labor.
At the beginning, when lands were being cleared and put into production there weren't prominent town fairs ruled by merchants and bankers. Money wasn't used for sustenance, not even much barter occurred, life was mostly agrarian.
Charity was woven into the economy of monasteries. It was estimated that you only need travel 12 miles in medieval England between monasteries, where you could get a meal and minimal lodging for free, based on need. And the charity was also spiritual, including the ancient Catholic principle of prayer for the dead, which is biblical. (See "prayer for the dead" in the original King James Bible in the comment.)
There were foundations and benefices for praying for the dead, that allowed a person of means to support monasteries' charitable works, and in proportional response the monks would pray for the souls of the donors.
It happened at the close of the middle ages, that militarily strong nobles cast their eyes on the labor value accumulated by the poverty-sworn monks of the monasteries, which those nobles perceived as monetary wealth, especially where gold and jewels had been donated by the devout to adorn churches.
(Protestant writer William Cobbett wrote in his 1824 "A History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland", an anecdote, that an incredibly valuable, hand illustrated bible was stripped of it's bejeweled, gold cover, the much more valuable hand-illumined manuscript, thrown in the mud and trampled by horses hooves by raiders suppressing the monasteries in Henry VIII's England.)
A new religion growing up around this seizure of monastic lands and valuables, that sought to discredit the Catholic Church, spread the black legend that the "sale of indulgences" was abusive. But this was very exceptional. Today the stipend of a Mass said for the dead is $10.
It just can't occur to you that IF you don't know, then you ought not be focusing on the sins of the flesh so ardently, amplifying the ugliness. You are a cultist, so it is almost impossible to believe anything you claim. The Holy Spirit is not in you so who is guiding the SDA cultist in his obsession with Ravi Zacharias, and this irrational hatred for the concept well defended in the letter to the Hebrews, that the New Covenant is not hallmarked with sins being remembered each year, every year? You don't like the Grace of God in Christ because you demand to have your efforts acknowledged, so you serve the devil's game of spittling doubt at every posting. LOL you have no idea what spirit you are serving so eagerly. But you WILL find out in some where/when of God's choosing.
So you now want us to believe you have been neutral on the life of Ravi Zacharias. LOL
You appear to be mentally challenged. I AM CERTAINLY NOT NEUTRAL on the LIFE of Ravi Zacharias. He was the poster boy for OSAS, and he committed unspeakable acts on vulnerable women, and committed adultery on his wife, and many other crimes. HE DID IT, and all the while claiming OSAS. He thought he was untouchable. The only question that remains about Ravi is....(ready for it?) DID HE REPENT BEFORE DEATH? You say it doesn’t matter because it was only his flesh that sinned and he’s covered by OSAS/judgment happens at the moment of grace. I say that if he didn’t repent (and that applies to every human who is living or has ever lived on this earth) his goose is cooked.
Of course we want to see Murph in the clouds someday soon. That’s how much we care about people. We do, however, have to tell the truth about false religions.
So Murph, this is to you. I don’t know what your status with the Lord is. All we can do, is make a value judgment, based on your posts, and it doesn’t look good. Look bro, I was a Catholic, like you. I know what it’s like, to have no assurance of salvation, or anything. I know it’s a terrible feeling inside, knowing I wasn’t saved. I hated it, so I know where you are coming from. Everyone wants to see you in the clouds at the OSAS rapture (harpazo) If you don’t make it, all I can say is, I will not have to answer to God, concerning you. Your blood is on your own hands. All of us have presented you with the REAL spiritual truth. It’s up to you to respond to it. If you do, we have won a brother. If not, well, there is Hebrews 10:27 “But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” 🔥 I hope you make it bro, and it’s certainly possible, but I am not sure you will.
But you WILL find out in some where/when of God’s choosing.
I already know that. You and I may or may not find out at the same time. Either way, we are both going to be judged. You can take that to the bank.
It just can’t occur to you that IF you don’t know, then you ought not be focusing on the sins of the flesh so ardently, amplifying the ugliness.
I am focusing on the Satanic lie of OSAS, and using Poster Boy, Ravi Zacharias, as a TEACHING TOOL/EXAMPLE. Does that make you uncomfortable?
John 5:24“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
then you ought not be focusing on the sins of the flesh so ardently, amplifying the ugliness.
Yes, sin is ugly. But not to you, right? You get a free pass, just like Ravi. So why should you care about ugliness and judgment?
LOL, you just can’t help yourself, you just have to make up accusation. NEVER have I even hinted that sin does not matter. But we understand why you have to make false assertions, cultist.
Aren’t they committing the sin of presumption, by presuming the Catholic Church gave us the Bible? 😀
Here is another thing that puzzles me, since it is totally unimportant. Why do some seem so hung up on a Biblical table of contents? I couldn’t care less about that. The Bible was written without chapters and verses. Someone decided it would help to divide books into chapters and verses. I am glad someone did, but I don’t care if someone wants to see a table of contents. It’s meaningless to me. I don’t even respond to it.
They didn’t even assemble the list of books properly anyways! T’was blessed brother Luther who formed the canon of Scripture. Catholics didn’t even have their official list ‘til 1563.
John 5:24
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
Grace covers PAST SINS and the condemnation that came with them. We are then passed from certain death unto everlasting life, AT THAT MOMENT (just like the thief on the cross). Then, we live a life of faith unto obedience. AT THE END OF THAT LIFE, we are judged.
“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;” Romans 3:24-25
“But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS.” 2 Peter 1:9
LOL, you just can’t help yourself, you just have to make up accusation. NEVER have I even hinted that sin does not matter. But we understand why you have to make false assertions, cultist.
Lawbreaker, you have REPEATEDLY made it exceedingly clear that sin will not affect your salvation in any way (or Ravi’s). That means that CURRENT AND FUTURE SIN DOESN’T MATTER TO YOU.
I wonder, is the cultist revealing he doesn’t want the New Covenant and wants to be judged under the Old Covenant? Grace is just not enough for the ego of cultists, in all sorts of cults.
You accused, “... you have REPEATEDLY made it exceedingly clear that sin will not affect your salvation in any way (or Ravi’s).” What an imagination you have! It is interesting how satan’s influence twists the mental trails of a cultist, though.
Beast * 2
But wait - there's MORE!
...only if they pray the Rosary and say Our Fathers correctly and in the appointed number of times.
The Holy Spirit is not in you so who is guiding the SDA cultist in his obsession with Ravi Zacharias, and this irrational hatred for the concept well defended in the letter to the Hebrews, that the New Covenant is not hallmarked with sins being remembered each year, every year?
Oh, this new covenant, that is BASED ON GOD’S LAWS? That new covenant???
Hebrews 10:
16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
So, what sins is Paul talking about in verse 17? Those past sins, forgiven at the moment of grace and all future REPENTANT sins. They are certainly covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Well, I could dig up all of your old posts (there are multitudes) where you REPETEDLY make it exceedingly clear that sin will not affect your salvation in any way (or Ravi’s), but that seems to be a faux pas on FR. So, just to clear it up, why don’t you just say that sin will affect your salvation, that God demands obedience to his laws, and that OSAS is the Satanic lie that it is? Go...
You are now sliding into just lying. Sad that you haven’t a clue regarding the difference between the soul of the flesh and the spirit. Effects of cultic lies I suppose.
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