Posted on 12/04/2021 9:06:40 AM PST by metmom
“[Christ] did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped” (Philippians 2:6).
Christ is equal with God but willingly yielded His divine privileges for our sake.
At the time Christ lived, even His worst enemies, the apostate religious leaders, knew what Jesus claimed about Himself. John 5:18 says, “The Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but was also calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” In Philippians 2:6 Paul affirms Christ’s claim of equality with God. The Greek word translated “equality” (isos) describes things that are exactly equal in size, quantity, quality, character, and number. Isomorph (equal form), isometric (equal measures), and isosceles triangle (a triangle with two sides of equal measure) are all English terms that describe equality. Christ is equal to God, and He exists in the form of God. A literal English rendering of the Greek text is: “He did not regard the being equal with God”— a tremendous affirmation of the deity of Christ.
The first step in the humiliation of Christ was that He did not hold on to equality with God. Though He had all the rights, privileges, and honors of Godhood, Christ didn’t grasp them. The word translated “grasp” originally meant “robbery” or “a thing seized by robbery.” It eventually came to mean anything clutched, embraced, held tightly, clung to, or prized. Paul meant that though He was always and forever God, Christ refused to cling to His favored position with all its rights and honors. He was willing to give them up for a season.
The Incarnation expresses the humility and unselfish nature of the Second Person of the Trinity. Christ looked down on wretched sinners who hated Him and willingly yielded His privileges to give Himself for their sake. Let us follow His example by being humble and living unselfishly for others.
Suggestions for Prayer
Thank the Lord for His example of humility and unselfishness.
For Further Study
Read John 10:38; 14:9.
What did Christ say about His relationship with the Father? In John 20:28 how did Thomas address Christ?
Studying God’s Word ping
This is a topic that I’ve always struggled with. Of course I believe Christ is one with God and the Holy Spirit but he always referred to God as the Father when stating that only the Father knows the time and date. Did he know or because he was in human form, it was kept from Him? Or does the Father possess more than the Son and HS?
I attribute it to not being able to think like God thinks.
When did he give up his equality to God and how could he? Study the Jewish rite of Bar mitzvah to see why the statement God was his father bothered the Jews.
Yes, it is also used by muslims and jehovah’s witnesses to deny the divinity of Jesus.
We must note that Jesus, as the article points out, claimed to be God, which is why the High priest condemned him to death for blasphemy
The standard answer is that while being equal with the Father, yet Christ volitionally - in obedience to the Father - chose to not only be subject to experiencing human nature with its biological infirmities as well as appear human - vs. in - but also be limited in knowledge. Which is reasonable unless we want to believe that from conception and birth then the Lord did not have to learn anything, yet Scripture says that in terms of experiencing every basic type of temptation (cf. Jn. 2:16) "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:8-9)
Therefore if the very Divine Son of God - who was ever "in the bosom of the Father," (John 1:18) as the word of God, and "came forth from the Father" (John 16:28) as the Word expressing the Father and in obedience to Him - had to attain knowledge experientially which the Father personally did not, then while on earth the Son could also be subject to the Father is not having precise knowledge that was the Father's prerogative to have.
In all this the meaning of equality should be understand as meaning most essentially equality in nature, meaning that the Son was of the same eternally uncreated nature as the Father, being in and always with the Father, vs. being a mere created being. The Son has the Father's DNA so to speak. Along with that the Son also is said and or shown to possesses certain uniquely Divine attributes, and to whom are also ascribed certain uniquely Divine titles, and glory..
However, quality does not mean equal in position or function, for as in marriage, which order of the husband over the wife (yet essentially equal in nature as human) flows from that of God the Father, the Son and the Spirit, (1 Co. 11:3) as the Father is the head of Christ (whom Himself tells the Spirit what to speak: Jn. 16:13-15), whom the Father functionally made Lord over the universe until all is subjected to Him, and then will the Son also once again take His position under the Father so that God the Father will functionally be God over all as before. But the difference btwn the almighty Son and Spirit and us created beings is more than the difference btwn the potter and the clay.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:33-36)
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. (Revelation 1:8) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. (Revelation 1:18)
Glory to God!
And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever. (Revelation 5:11-14)
Thanks for the information. I was raised and consider myself a Catholic but yet it wasn’t until I listened to John that I came to understand Christ that He was in existence before He was born into his human form. One knock on Catholic teaching.
1“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. 4 And you know the way to where I am going.” 5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we do not know where you are going. How can we know the way?” 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.
12“Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
In that exchange there is an important lesson regarding God and the Universe of His creating, along with an obvious promise by Jesus to come for all believers in whose spirit God abides. God is Spirit, to be worshiped in spirit and truth (John 4:24)
When Philip asks Jesus to just show them the Father Almighty and that will be enough to convince them, Jesus gives these men a sort of Physics lesson. In essence Jesus tells them, all that they can see of God the Father Almighty is where He, God, is in their sensing range as Jesus ... as the spirit director of Jesus who was named hundreds of years before His birth as 'God With Us'.
What Philip asked was not possible given the space and time sensing limitations of these men. God is so much greater than the dimensional extent of these men, of our world, that the only place we can sense or see God is where He is intersecting our limits. We are limited to three variables of space and one of time. God is unlimited, but He intersected and passed through our limits as Jesus.
As Jesus is now, in His glorified body of much more complex space and time coordinates, we cannot see Him, but when He appears we will see Him as He really is because in that moment we will have been made like Him, existing in a much greater, more complex space and time coordinate system. But to experience that Kingdom of God we must be born again, born in the spirit, right now and wherever you are, for we do not know how close is the transforming event, the snatching away before the wrath of God is poured out on an unbelieving world.
The spirit and soul exist and are real in space and time. Let God put Life into your spirit, today, wherever you are as you read this essay, by just believing Jesus is and is your deliverer from the spiritual poison of sin.
Actually while distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest in the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels), I actually contend for Scriptural teaching that that Catholicism also professes. And which includes that Christ, as the Divine Son of God, existed from eternity past.
Basically, you are saying Jesus is God, but not the fullness of God or essentially just a partial work in process, but don’t worry God the Father is working on him.
In the beginning, was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things created were created through him. John is talking of Jesus. What attributes of God was he missing? Your explanation of the scripture is the most convoluted thing I’ve ever heard passed as doctrine
I'm not seeing that is what Daniel1212 is saying at all. Go back and reread his comment. When Jesus took on human flesh, Scripture says He "emptied Himself" (temporarily) of His equality with the Father.
John: 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity.
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People mistake the “Kingdom of God” as a place we must obey and serve to reach. It’s not a place, it’s a position of power granted to you now. Look in Strongs the word “Kingdom” as it appears in these scriptures for the true meaning (basileias). Christians spend their lives trying to get to a place that was in them all the time and never know it. Jesus gave them the Kingdom and the power and position that comes with it and the average Christian has no idea how to tap into it.
“The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that,
“ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ a ”
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
The word “grasped” actually means “harpagmós – to seize, especially by an open display of force in Strongs Jesus did not take advantage of his diety. He didn’t need to die for our sins, as God he could have wiped the slate clean without the cross, but he chose to suffer as a human. It is no way means he emptied himself of his diety no more than anyone can empty themselves of their soul. Again, convoluted view of that scripture.
Actually, NIV has the closest translation to the original meaning.
6 Who, being in very nature a God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature b of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
How did you get that out of what I wrote? Do you understand the different btwn Christ in His incarnation choosing to be subject to human biology, which Divinity by nature is not (but which Christ did not have to be), as well as in positional distinctions in the Trinity and the prerogatives that entails? If you think the former or the latter makes Christ a work in progress or is contrary to "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Colossians 2:9) then you have a problem with how Scripture defines this. And does not answer the question being addressed by my response.
We seem to be getting deep into the weeds with everyone trying to get a scripture to mean what they believe.
God did not send his Son to earth to punish him for the sins of mankind. This seems to be a common belief, and it’s wrong
God chose to become man and perform the biggest sacrifice ever and take the punishment upon himself for the sins of man. There is a big difference between the two.
John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
Mankind was God’s most loved creation and he took it upon himself to give back what had been lost through Adam.
The incarnation was God and man in the same being at the exact same time. Jesus, the “Son of God” was born of a woman with the Spirit of God in him. Two separate, yet the same.
When the devil asked Jesus to change the stones to bread he didn’t. Jesus could have changed the place they were standing into a bakery, but he chose not to.
Not because he was less than God or lacked the authority or took on a lower role; he chose not to use his divinity to accomplish what he set out to do; suffer as man, die as man, while at the same time being God, to show his love for mankind.
Jesus was wholly man, and wholly God at the same time. There was never any separation. Never was he less than God in any way shape or form. A man born of woman being led by the living God.
Jesus, as a man, led by the Spirit of God od within him.
When you finally get this concept the scriptures become crystal clear.
This is the Trinity.
Jesus the man. God the father. The Holy Spirit; the power between. Never separate, always one always with the exact divine power
Jesus chose not to use his divinity, but instead follow the Spirit of God in him. This in no way made him inferior or less than God at any time.
He could have removed this burden of death himself, but he chose not to.
When asked of the final day and hour he chose not to reply. He gives his reasons in Acts 1:7
God became man to remove the curse of death given to us through Adam.
He also came to open and show the way back to the garden. Adam was not created to serve, but to experience the love of God. Jesus has returned to you your rightful inheritance lost through Adam. The Cherubim that protected the way back to God can no longer keep you out.
Stop trying to serve God to gain his love. His love for mankind can be no higher.
Go enjoy on earth what he has given to you; Joy unspeakable, and a peace that passes all understanding
When Jesus told the disciples that from that moment they have seen teh Father, he proclaimed what man has truned into a conundrum. But in reality there is no way the discipes could see The Father except where He was in their spacetime limits, as Jesus. So in seeing Jesus they saw the Father. [John 14]
God dwells in the spirit of man. A place many would not think to look for him. The Kingdom of God doesn’t come through observation. Those looking for a sign never find it.
Indeed, but unlike me, you are not responding to the question asked of why/how "of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father" (Mark 13:32) can be reconciled with Christ being fully God. I expressed that this limitation is understood as being part of His incarnated humbling on earth, and that this is not contrary to equality, neither is the Scriptural positional distinctions within the Trinity and whatever that relates to.
“of that day and that hour knoweth no man
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We both agree that the incarnate Christ was both man and God but separate, Jesus chose not to use his diety and would rely on what the Father chose to reveal to him.
I think this is explained all through the gospels. If Jesus the flesh had chosen to use his deity there would be no reason to pray to the Father for guidance. We get an explanation of why God never revealed this to him in Acts 1:7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
Again, if we truly understand the incarnation, the one being two but equal the questionable scriptures become quite clear;
Why did he cry out on the cross?
Why did he pray for this burden to be taken if possible?
Why did he pray to the Father for the power to heal?
Why was he not shown the time and hour when asked?
All because he chose to fulfill the ultimate sacrifice as a man born of a woman.
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