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You Must Disobey a Pope
The Fatima Center ^ | July 23, 2021 | David Rodríguez

Posted on 07/25/2021 8:23:50 PM PDT by ebb tide

You Must Disobey a Pope

Faithful Catholics have been put in a very difficult situation by the latest official papal document published by the Vatican: Traditionis Custodes, a motu proprio aimed at eliminating the Mass of All Ages.

Much can – and needs to be – said about this atrocious document; but in this brief article I limit myself to just one point. I find this to be an extremely important point, yet it has not received as much ‘press coverage’ as I think it ought.

This document is yet another instance, of an ever growing list,[1] that COMPELS Catholics to disobey papal authority. Yes, you read that right: Catholics are being forced to disobey papal authority. You see, without our willing it, every single Catholic faces the terrible dilemma of having to go against a papal teaching. Part of the problem is that many Catholics are unaware of this dilemma since they don’t sufficiently study Church history. Let me explain.

QUO PRIMUM

I strongly encourage you to read Quo Primum, a papal bull issued by St. Pius V in 1570. He promulgated it as part of the great Catholic reform ushered in by the Council of Trent to resist the heresy of Protestantism. The influence of Protestantism among academics and noblemen had grown strong and had even begun to creep into the minds of some high-ranking churchmen.

Already at this time rumors were circulating that some churchmen wanted to “reform” the Sacred Mass – to adapt it to Protestant ideas. For example, the notion that the Mass is not really a sacrifice (but more of a celebratory memorial meal), that the Roman Canon of the Mass (known today in the New Rite of Mass as “Eucharistic Prayer” I, II, III, IV, or one of the many other varieties) ought to be changed, or that the vernacular should be preferred to Latin. Don’t take it from me, look up the infallible canons[2] from the 22nd session of Trent and you’ll see that these ideas had to be anathematized because they were posing a real threat to Christ and His divinely-revealed Catholic Faith, outside of which there is no salvation.

By his supreme authority, St. Pius V therefore issued an edict to preserve the Roman Rite of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and prevent it from being corrupted. As I read this document, it seems obvious to me that it is an infallible pronouncement. It has all the requirements listed in Vatican I[3] for papal infallibility: It is clearly a matter of faith (lex orandi, lex credendi), and the Pope issued it with his supreme authority as teacher of all Christians. He issued it for everyone, everywhere and for all time, and he clearly expected everyone to obey it, even issuing severe punishments for those who would dare go against it. 

Nevertheless, I know there are plenty of people who make the argument that Quo Primum is not infallible. This is not the place for that discussion, because dear reader, you can see for yourself that irrespective of it being infallible or not, it was issued with the highest levels of papal authority.

Read for yourself what St. Pius V decreed. It is a short document and a simple read. This document, which codified the centuries-old Roman Rite of the Mass, had to be printed at the start of every Missale Romanum (the book used by the priest to offer Mass). Note well, this was the same Mass which had been celebrated for centuries, since long before St. Gregory VII (+1070) and well before Gregory the Great (+604), with some of the prayers going all the way back to St. Peter himself! In fact, St. Pius V abrogated any rites which were too young – that is, less than 200 years old. Various abuses and excesses had crept into the liturgy in various regions and the Pope knew such ‘varieties’ would make the Mass more susceptible to a Protestant attack. (What would he say about the New Rite, an egregious experiment that is only 60 years old?)

In part, Quo Primum states [emphasis added]:

We gladly turned our mind and energies and directed all our thoughts to those matters which concerned the preservation of a pure liturgy 

Let all everywhere adopt and observe what has been handed down by the Holy Roman Church, the Mother and Teacher of the other churches, and let Masses not be sung or read according to any other formula than that of this Missal published by Us. This ordinance applies henceforth, now, and forever, throughout all the provinces of the Christian world…

We order them in virtue of holy obedience to chant or to read the Mass according to the rite and manner and norm herewith laid down by Us… 

[I]n virtue of Our Apostolic authority, We grant and concede in perpetuity that, for the chanting or reading of the Mass in any church whatsoever, this Missal is hereafter to be followed absolutely, without any scruple of conscience or fear of incurring any penalty, judgment, or censure, and may freely and lawfully be used…

We likewise declare and ordain that no one whosoever is forced or coerced to alter this Missal, and that this present document cannot be revoked or modified, but remain always valid and retain its full force notwithstanding the previous constitutions and decrees of the Holy See… 

Therefore, no one whosoever is permitted to alter this notice of Our permission, statute, ordinance, command, precept, grant, indult, declaration, will, decree, and prohibition. Would anyone, however, presume to commit such an act, he should know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.

HARD CHOICES MUST BE MADE

Now that is a document written by someone who knows he is the Vicar of Christ and has the responsibility of feeding the sheep by preserving, guarding, and handing-on Sacred Tradition – and acts in accordance with it. That is a document written with all the authority of Saint Peter, with the Keys of binding and loosing in Heaven and on earth. That is clearly a document written with far greater authority than the recent motu proprio, Traditionis Custodes (16 July 2021).

And here lies the conundrum for every single Catholic. If you obey Quo Primum, which was upheld explicitly or implicitly by all 255 Popes prior to 30 November 1969 (when the Novus Ordo of Paul VI came into effect), then you disobey Traditiones Custodes. If you obey Traditiones Custodes, then you are disobeying Quo Primum. In that case, not only are you disobeying a saintly pontiff – who promoted the Holy Rosary, helped save Christendom from the Muslim infidels at the Battle of Lepanto, and led the Church in the great Catholic Reform of the 16th century – but you are also incurring upon yourself the wrath of Ss. Peter and Paul and Almighty God.

FATIMA AND DISOBEDIENCE

I would be remiss if I did not mention that Quo Primum has in fact been disobeyed since 1969. We are therefore living in a time when the Church at large is incurring the divine wrath of God for the hierarchy’s disobedience. We are living in “Fatima Time” and suffering the chastisements which Our Lady predicted on account of our disobedience. Readers of our Fatima literature are well aware that in the Third Secret Our Lady warned – words which remain undisclosed to this day – against changing the Mass and that there would be “an evil Council” in the Church.[4]

Yet, Traditionis Custodes is raising that disobedience to an even more diabolical level. Paul VI did not dare issue a document that attempted to abrogate the Mass of All Ages – though it was suggested to him. To get around Quo Primum, Paul VI opted to create and issue an entirely new order for the Roman Rite (Novus Ordo) and sought to leave the ancient one unaltered.[5] In practice, he de facto prohibited the Ancient Mass, and then many tried to claim it had been abrogated. Yet, Pope Benedict XVI emphatically dispelled that deception, stating:[6]

“I would like to draw attention to the fact that this Missal was never juridically abrogated and, consequently, in principle, was always permitted…. What earlier generations held as sacred, remains sacred and great for us too, and it cannot be all of a sudden entirely forbidden or even considered harmful.” (‘Letter to the Bishops’ accompanying Summorum Pontificum, 7 July 2007)

THE PASSION AND THE CROSS

It seems clear to me that one dimension of the Cross which every faithful Catholic must bear today is disobeying a papal decree. Simply ‘being obedient’ is no longer a viable option. This is even against our own choosing – the Cross usually is. Modern Popes have chosen to contradict their predecessors on the Papal Throne, leaving each of us in this terrible dilemma.

This is the Passion which the Church is enduring today. This is the realization of predictions made by Our Lady at Fatima (and at Akita and other Marian apparitions). This is part of the divine chastisements which mankind’s disobedience has incurred. And these chastisements will only worsen until we obey Our Lady!

It is predicted that at some point there will be no public celebration of the Mass. Only hidden private Masses will be available. Given recent world events – with the cancellation of Masses and so many Sacraments, with the virus and the vaccine, with the New World Order and its Global Reset – it seems we are very close to such a dreadful event. The past two years  now make it clear that such an abolition of the Mass may not come from the State but from those within the Church. Remember, it was Judas who betrayed Our Lord – not Caesar Augustus.

Let us do everything we can to obey Our Lady. Pray the Rosary every day. Wear your Brown Scapular. Offer Our Lady’s requested reparation on the First Saturday of every month. Pray for the conversion of sinners. Do penance. Pray for the Pope. Only after we collectively gain sufficient merit will God grant the necessary graces for the Pope, in union with all the Catholic bishops of the world, to consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Only then will the Immaculate Heart reign over a period of world peace, where the Mass of All Ages will be celebrated everywhere. May it happen SOON!

Our Lady of Fatima, ora pro nobis!
 


END NOTES

 
[1] That list is extensive. Here are but a few examples. The Catholic belief that Mary’s faith is perfect and she never doubted. All the Church Fathers and Doctors hold that Judas lost his soul after betraying Our Lord and taking his own life; this is even taught by St. Peter (cf. Acts 1:18). The infallible doctrine that Holy Communion may only be received by those in a state of grace; it is a grave sacrilege for one who remains in public sin to receive Our Lord. The truth that homosexuality is an intrinsic evil. The fact that marriage is a union between one man and one woman which endures until death; adultery, divorce and fornication being forbidden in all circumstances. The reality that since God is Truth, He has only revealed the True Religion; He wills that all men belong to His One Holy Catholic Church. The Church’s constant teaching that the death penalty is morally permissible.

[2] Here are a few canons from that session:

Canon I.–If any one saith, that in the Mass a true and proper sacrifice is not offered to God; or, that to be offered is nothing else but that Christ is given us to eat; let him be anathema.

Canon VI.–If any one saith, that the canon of the Mass contains errors, and is therefore to be abrogated; let him be anathema.

Canon IX.–If any one saith, that the rite of the Roman Church, according to which a part of the canon and the words of consecration are pronounced in a low tone, is to be condemned; or, that the Mass ought to be celebrated in the vulgar tongue only; …  let him be anathema.

[3] See Chapter 9 of Pastor Aeternus (18 July 1870) which states: “We teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman pontiff speaks ex cathedra, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.”

[4] Father Ingo Döllinger, a personal friend of Pope Benedict XVI, is the source of this knowledge (see “The Secret Warned Against Vatican Council II and the New Mass,” The Fatima Crusader, Issue 92, May 2009, pp. 10-11).

[5] Such an act was utterly unheard of in the history of the Church. No one, not even a Pope, has the authority to simply “fabricate a rite.” No Pope has ever dared to do this – until Paul VI. Every rite in the Catholic Church – other than the Novus Ordo – has credible claims of apostolic authority and has its origins in antiquity.

[6] Note as well that if one chooses to obey Francis’ Traditionis Custodes (2021) then one disobeys Benedict’s Summorum Pontificum (2007). Since these two documents directly contradict each other – written by two men who are both still alive and wearing the papal white – then it is impossible to not disobey one of them.

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TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: apostatepope; dictatorpope; mercilesspope
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And here lies the conundrum for every single Catholic. If you obey Quo Primum, which was upheld explicitly or implicitly by all 255 Popes prior to 30 November 1969 (when the Novus Ordo of Paul VI came into effect), then you disobey Traditiones Custodes. If you obey Traditiones Custodes, then you are disobeying Quo Primum. In that case, not only are you disobeying a saintly pontiff – who promoted the Holy Rosary, helped save Christendom from the Muslim infidels at the Battle of Lepanto, and led the Church in the great Catholic Reform of the 16th century – but you are also incurring upon yourself the wrath of Ss. Peter and Paul and Almighty God.
1 posted on 07/25/2021 8:23:50 PM PDT by ebb tide
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To: Al Hitan; DuncanWaring; Fedora; irishjuggler; Jaded; JoeFromSidney; kalee; markomalley; ...

Ping


2 posted on 07/25/2021 8:24:33 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

Do not be decieved by false prophets.


3 posted on 07/25/2021 8:33:43 PM PDT by HighSierra5 (The only way you know a commie is lying is when they open their pieholes.)
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To: ebb tide

Francis serves one point, he serves to put the lie to Papal Infallibility. Bringing this falsehood into view in this era. There have been many good Popes and some very great Popes but, through history, there have also been some very bad Popes. Francis is a very bad Pope. So bad he is threatening The Church with Schism.


4 posted on 07/25/2021 8:39:51 PM PDT by ocrp1982 ( Bibicly)
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To: ocrp1982

Reject rule by a clerical elite entirely


5 posted on 07/25/2021 8:40:29 PM PDT by Clemenza (Elon Musk: wealthiest welfare queen in history )
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To: ocrp1982
Correction: Francis serves one point, he serves to put the lie the misinterpretation and exaggeration of Papal Infallibility.

Papal infallibility is very limited in scope and it has not been exercised in many years.

6 posted on 07/25/2021 8:43:28 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: Clemenza
Reject rule by a clerical elite entirely

Like Jesus Christ and His apostles? Reject them entirely?

7 posted on 07/25/2021 9:10:55 PM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: ebb tide

I can imagine old Luther saying ‘see I told you so’....


8 posted on 07/25/2021 9:17:18 PM PDT by Just mythoughts (Psalm 2. Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?)
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To: ebb tide

I DO believe in GOD! But, I am well beyond the notion that there is ANY other human being ANY closer to GOD than I am. The notion that I must go and confess to another human being, is nonsense to me. What? As if GOD doesn’t know until I tell this other guy! AND then... this supposed “go-between” tells me what penance I have to pay to get right with GOD. No thanks! As well... when the catholic church roots out all the homosexuals and pedophiles, they might regain some respectability.


9 posted on 07/25/2021 9:24:50 PM PDT by The Right Edge (Staunch Trump Supporter AND PROUD to be!)
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To: ebb tide

We my friend don’t agree who the pope is, I don’t think I am disobedient at all


10 posted on 07/25/2021 9:26:31 PM PDT by dila813
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To: ocrp1982

ALL of what you said is true.

Thank you for saving me the trouble of typing it.


11 posted on 07/25/2021 9:35:59 PM PDT by Maris Crane
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To: ebb tide

You must obey God over the Pope. This one is a false teacher and he must be shunned and ignored.


12 posted on 07/26/2021 5:38:35 AM PDT by DarthVader (Not by speeches & majority decisions will the great issues th the day be decided but by Blood & Iron)
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To: ebb tide

Not a caucus thread?
May I ask why not?
Just curious, I don’t mind either way.


13 posted on 07/26/2021 10:55:33 AM PDT by BDParrish (God called, He said He'd take you back!)
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To: ebb tide

How do you ebb resolve the conondrum yourself?
Is that too personal? If I were you, I would not answer me.


14 posted on 07/26/2021 10:56:44 AM PDT by BDParrish (God called, He said He'd take you back!)
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To: BDParrish

Not a caucus thread?
May I ask why not?

This is why:

I strongly encourage you to read Quo Primum, a papal bull issued by St. Pius V in 1570. He promulgated it as part of the great Catholic reform ushered in by the Council of Trent to resist the heresy of Protestantism.

15 posted on 07/26/2021 11:05:45 AM PDT by ebb tide (We have a rogue curia in Rome.)
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To: BDParrish; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; MamaB; ...
"How do you ebb resolve the conondrum yourself? Is that too personal? If I were you, I would not answer me."

Indeed, for while the call to disobeying the pope invokes a a papal bull issued in order to combat the influence of Protestantism, the exhortation to disobedience to the pope (which the OP rejects as being pope) calls them to essentially act like SS evangelicals. In the sense that rather than practicing the broad assent that so much pope teaching requires*, and with assurance of doctrine being based upon the premise of ensured magisterial infallibility, the TradCath makes the veracity of modern RC teaching (which purports to understand and clarify the past) subject to his personal judgment of conformity with past church teaching, based upon his understanding of it.

The difference bere btwn the TradCath and a SS evangelicals is that for the latter Scripture is the only wholly inspired substantive authoritative record of what the NT church believed (which is Scripture, in particular Acts through Revelation, which best shows how the NT church understood the gospels) - in which distinctive Catholic teachings are not manifest

Part of the problem is that many Catholics are unaware of this dilemma since they don’t sufficiently study Church history. Let me explain...I strongly encourage you to read Quo Primum, a papal bull issued by St. Pius V in 1570...I strongly encourage you to read Quo Primum, a papal bull issued by St. Pius V in 1570.

Meaning that the author calls Catholics to interpret a papal bull the way he does. Yet Catholics debate whether papal bulls are irreformable.

" I know there are plenty of people who make the argument that Quo Primum is not infallible. This is not the place for that discussion,"

Actually it is since the very premise of the polemic is that the Bull is without error, at least as the author understands it, vs. Vatican Two.

I would be remiss if I did not mention that Quo Primum has in fact been disobeyed since 1969.

Modern Popes have chosen to contradict their predecessors on the Papal Throne, leaving each of us in this terrible dilemma.

A dilemma it is, for papal teaching includes,

*'the one duty of the multitude is to allow themselves to be led, and, like a docile flock, to follow the Pastors," "to suffer themselves to be guided and led in all things that touch upon faith or morals by the Holy Church of God through its Supreme Pastor the Roman Pontiff," "of submitting with docility to their judgment," with "no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed... not only in person, but with letters and other public documents ;" and 'not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority, " for "obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces," and not set up "some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them," "Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent." (Sources http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3578348/posts?page=14#14)

And which dilemma relates to the issue of ascertaining the magisterial level each teaching falls under and thus what manner of assent is required. As a poster on a RC forum dealing with this expressed:

rrr1213: Boy. No disrespect intended…and I mean that honestly…but my head spins trying to comprehend the various classifications of Catholic teaching and the respective degrees of certainty attached thereto. I suspect that the average Catholic doesn’t trouble himself with such questions, but as to those who do (and us poor Protestants who are trying to get a grip on Catholic teaching) it sounds like an almost impossible task.

But the solution (before Francis at least) he was given was just obey everything:

Well, the question pertained to theology. The Catholic faithful don’t need to know any of this stuff to be faithful Catholics, so you are confusing theology with praxis.

Praxis is quite simple for faithful Catholics: give your religious assent of intellect and will to Catholic doctrine, whether it is infallible or not. That’s what our Dogmatic Constitution on the Church demands, that’s what the Code of Canon Laws demand, and that is what the Catechism itself demands. Heb 13:17 teaches us to “obey your leaders and submit to them.” This submission is not contingent upon inerrancy or infallibility. - https://forums.catholic.com/t/catechism-infallible/55096/31

But the TradCaths also make it simple according to their interpretation while disparaging evangelicals for the variants in theirs.

16 posted on 07/26/2021 11:49:15 AM PDT by daniel1212 ( Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save + be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: ebb tide

Jesus is Lord and Savior, not clerical elite.

Catholics, by having a separate class of clergy with special privileges, is violating James 2 by being respecters of persons, elevating some people above others.

Not to mention that the Catholic religion just outright ignores Scriptural guidelines for the office of elder and deacon, that are found in the Bible they claim to have written.

Some chutzpah, to demand that non-Catholics submit to Catholic authority when they don’t even do it themselves.


17 posted on 07/26/2021 12:29:47 PM PDT by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…..)
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To: ebb tide

Thanks!


18 posted on 07/26/2021 12:55:28 PM PDT by BDParrish (God called, He said He'd take you back!)
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To: metmom

First a flashlight was turned on to shine the light of truth. People just squinted their eyes and continued following a church full of hypocrisy and known sin.
Then spotlights were employed to awaken and warn them to come out of the abomination. They put on sunglasses and suffered through.

Now the klieg lights have been employed. Blinding light shining so brightly on truth that that cannot be dismissed. Are they going to finally see the light? Or are they going to wear blackout veils and carry white canes so they don’t bump into the kneeling benches?


19 posted on 07/26/2021 1:51:29 PM PDT by smvoice (I WILL NOT WEAR THE RIBBON. OR THE MASK)
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To: daniel1212

Praxis.

But that is how I read “Amoris Laetitia”. Whoever came up with that knows how it really works when someone is sitting alone with his priest in his office. It is telling that there are no priests to come on a thread like this to settle things.

Print the original post and take it to the Catholic Church and ask the Monsignor there to give you an hour to talk about it. Before very long you’ll be talking about how you treat your wife, or something, if he is any good at his job.

I thought you did have some food for thought, daniel1212. Bear in mind however, full disclosure, I am not a Catholic.


20 posted on 07/26/2021 2:02:37 PM PDT by BDParrish (God called, He said He'd take you back!)
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