Posted on 07/08/2021 12:13:17 PM PDT by Cronos
SDA’s deny that believers at death go to heaven. The adventist review site https://www.adventistreview.org/2009-24 says
"The Bible evidence does not support either an eternal human soul or an eternal burning hell. The concept of an eternity of penal torment flies in the face of several of the most basic revelations about God in the Scriptures."
They say that believers go to soul sleep in the grave until Christ’s return.
This is similar to Jehovah's Witnesses’s, Christadelphians and others
The main verses in the Bible disproving the soul sleep error are:
1. Philippians 1:23 “I am in a straight betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ”.
2. 2 Cor. 5:8 “To be absent from the body (death), and to be present with the Lord.” (in heaven).
3. Hebrews 12:1 “We are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses”. (The departed believers discussed in Hebrews 11, who now watch us from heaven.)
4. Hebrews 12:23,24 “The heavenly Jerusalem ... the church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven and to the spirits of just men made perfect.”
5. 1 Thessalonians 4:14 “Them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”
(Bring, not take)
At Christ’s return to raise believers bodies, He brings our spirits &souls from heaven with Him
6. Revelation 6:9,10 “I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God..”
7. Isaiah 14:9,10 “Hell from beneath..stirs up the dead for thee. All they shall speak and say to thee.”
8. Ezekiel 32:21 “The strong among the mighty shall speak to him out of the midst of hell...”
9. Ezekiel 32:30,31 “The Sidonians which are gone down with the slain … Pharaoh shall see them and shall be comforted, even Pharaoh and all his army slain by the sword.”
10. Luke 16:19-31 The dead rich man and dead Abraham spoke to each other.
Also don’t forget Luke 23:42-43:
“And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
I’m pretty sure “today” doesn’t mean “after your soul sleeps for a few millennia.”
They don’t claim soul sleep. They claim we cease to exist upon death.
Soul sleep is termed that, because it seems that way from our perspective. When we due, it feels like we are talking asleep and will be awoken at the Second Coming.
That is what the Adventist Church teaches.
They don’t claim soul sleep. They claim we cease to exist upon death.
Soul sleep is termed that, because it seems that way from our perspective. When we die, it feels like we are falling asleep and will be awoken at the Second Coming.
That is what the Adventist Church teaches.
They didn’t have punctuation in the original Scriptures. The punctuation would have been added later and the scholars would have placed the punctuation where they thought best.
Christ may have said, “Verily, I say to you today. You will be with me in paradise.”
As a disclosure, I’m no longer an Adventist because the church has committed heresy by forgetting to be willing to adapt it’s teachings as they better understood the Bible. They’ve become like every other church and not correct itself as they better understood the Bible.
Except that Jesus nowhere else ever used the phrase “Verily, I say to you today.” as the prefix. Everywhere else it’s “Verily, I say to you.” or “I tell you the truth”. It would be very odd for him to have departed from his usual convention in this only instance. And quite convenient for “soul sleep” advocates to make the argument. The better read is that Jesus was consistent.
The Jewish faith leans towards a Resurrection, not going to Heaven upon death.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Jews-afterlife.html
The better read is that Jesus was consistent.
Then maybe you should explain why Jesus wasn’t in paradise with the thief that day? (Jesus didn’t ascend to his father until 40 days after His resurrection).
More insight:
The Meaning of “Today”: In general, the interpretation of this text is related to the question of the comma: Should it be placed before “today” (“I tell you the truth, today you will be . . .”), or after “today” (“I tell you the truth today, you will be . . .”)? The first reading is the most common among interpreters who believe in the immortality of the soul. The idea is that immediately after his death the soul of the thief would be with Christ in Paradise. Commas were added to the Greek text in the fifteenth century A.D.; Luke did not use a comma. Therefore he could have meant “I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise.” This suggestion is supported by a similar use of the term “today” in the Old Testament in the context of solemn promises: “I command you today . . .” (Deut. 30:16); “I announce to you today that you will surely perish” (verse 18). “Today” introduces a solemn statement. This fits the fact that Jesus was not in Paradise immediately after He died. He was solemnly promising the thief that he will enjoy salvation with Christ in Paradise after the resurrection.
https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/materials/what-jesus-told-the-thief/
I’ve already explained that by stating that Christ made that promise that day the thief would be with him, but not necessarily that very day.
I also said that traditional Judaism leaned towards a Resurrection, not a an eternal existence in another realm.
The seas and ground shall give up their dead on the day of His Return.
You commit a hermeneutical fallacy by choosing one verse and ignoring the countless others that contradict the belief in soul sleep. A sound hermeneutic needs to account for the entirety of Scripture or else you are misreading the verse. Revelation 20:13 isn’t discussing the location of the soul after death, rather it is emphasizing that nobody will escape judgment at the end.
There’s plenty in the New Testament about the Resurrection as well.
Yes it is. The New Testament is a Jewish document.
I’m not in need of somebody going to Heaven to think that God is love, when there is a resurrection for all of us and, from our perspective, you’ll close your eyes and the next thing you know you wake up resurrected with your new body
1 Thess. 4:16,17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This sounds suspiciously like someone was dead in the grave and is resurrected. How can that be?
That post was meant more for The Unknown Republican. I pinged you as a courtesy.
I appreciate it than. Sorry that I misunderstood your intent.
This should send Cronos off the deep end...
What Really Happens When You Die?
http://aloha.net/~mikesch/death.htm
sure does. How about this one from 1 Corinthians:
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.
The bottom line is, the Bible supports “sleeping” saints until Christ’s return. Any other stance is heresy
The bottom line is, the Bible supports “sleeping” saints until Christ’s return. Any other stance is heresy
THE SLEEP OF DEATH
Now notice how Jesus himself describes death-
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
John 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
John 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
John 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Mat 9:24 He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
Mark 5:39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luke 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
In Jesus own words above, death is described to be like a sleep.
Job 14:10 NIV But man dies and is laid low; he breathes his last and is no more.
Job 14:11 As water disappears from the sea or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,
Job 14:12 so man lies down and does not rise; till the heavens are no more, men will not awake or be roused from their sleep.
Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
James 4:14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.
(http://aloha.net/~mikesch/death.htm)
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