Jacob/Esau and the controversy of Zion...

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2021/06/15/jacob-esau-and-the-the-controversy-of-zion/ ^ | 06-13-21 | Bill Randles

[sauropod]

Bkmk

[Just mythoughts]

You really need to find out what that name Adam means. Esau and Jacob were twins.. Esau was born first and was by being firstborn entitled to the birthright and the blessing... Esau SOLD his birthright for a bowl of RED lentils.. and the Heavenly Father saw fit that Jacob was given the blessing... Esau's bunch has never gotten over that slight..

Now as to the promise given to Rebecca regarding the future of her children, the Heavenly Father already knew which child would love him.. think not, might read Paul's description of the brothers.. now the Arab nations came through Abraham, and his son Ishmael... not Esau..

[TexasKamaAina]

Let's stipulate that your interpretations here and on other posts are 100% accurate. I have to sincerely ask,"So what?"

How does any of this help anyone in their personal walk? How does it help me emulate John the Baptist, who said "He must increase, I must decrease"?

From what I've seen, a focus on this approach to scripture is, at best, a distraction from the fundamentals of the gospel and its application to the life of the individual believer.

[pastorbillrandles]

What is the relevance to you... of almost a third of the Bible? Is that what you are asking? Why do you think God put this in the Word? Are we only to seek and accept what we deem relevant to us in our own personal approach to scripture? If that is the approach, most of scripture would be irrelevant by your definition, since scripture is not really about you and I , directly. All scripture is profitable and every bit of it is relevant to us ehether we know it or not.

[pastorbillrandles]

Thanks for the input. This article is part of a series.I earlier made the points you bring up about Adam//Edom and “Red”. Furthermore Edom is a real place, and it is peopled by Arabs. Bozrah, Teman and Idumea happen to be populated by Arabs. Esau married Ishmael daughter and Islam codified into itself the grievances of Ishmael and Esau as I said.

[pastorbillrandles]

God chose Jacob over Esau long before the Lentil incident, it had nothing to do with anything either of the boys had done, as Paul tells us in Romans 9 . Election is of Grace and not works....

[familyop]

"You really need to find out what that name Adam means."

Son of the red earth. Made of red clay. Red (ruddy) skin. Caucasian, etc.

Esau is a little different, described as having red hair. He mixed with some descendants of Ham (including the people of Ishmael's mother), but his people eventually migrated west to become the Iberian people (Spain, Italy, then up to the Balkans--Roman Empire west and east, etc.).

[magna carta]

I agree we must honor and respect the Bible in full. The OT foreshadows and warns us. It sets the foundations and rules. Today we feel lost in a world that has so wavered and feels so unsteady.
I remembered reading about Ishmael and its connection to Islam but I overlooked the part about the twins in the womb.
Very enlightening.

[Just mythoughts]

The name given to the Adam means ...

119 ‘adam aw-dam’ to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:—be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).

Which ethnicity, shows blood in the face ... correlate that with the ‘key of David’ in the book of Revelation.. How was David described? One will not find the ethnicity of the Arab world.

I Samuel 16:12 (regarding the description of David)
12 And he sent, and brought him in. Now he was ruddy, and withal of a beautiful countenance, and goodly to look to. And the LORD said, Arise, anoint him: for this is he.

The RED associated with Esau was not just his skin tone but his ‘bloody’ ways.

19This is the genealogy of Isaac, Abraham's son. Abraham begot Isaac. 20Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah as wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padan Aram, the sister of Laban the Syrian. 21Now Isaac pleaded with the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and the Lord granted his plea, and Rebekah his wife conceived. 22But the children struggled together within her; and she said, “If all is well, why am I like this?” So she went to inquire of the Lord.

23And the Lord said to her:

“Two nations are in your womb,
Two peoples shall be separated from your body;
One people shall be stronger than the other,
And the older shall serve the younger.”
24So when her days were fulfilled for her to give birth, indeed there were twins in her womb. 25And the first came out red. He was like a hairy garment all over; so they called his name [d]Esau. 26Afterward his brother came out, and his hand took hold of Esau's heel; so his name was called [e]Jacob. Isaac was sixty years old when she bore them.

27So the boys grew. And Esau was a skillful hunter, a man of the field; but Jacob was a [f]mild man, dwelling in tents. 28And Isaac loved Esau because he ate of his game, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Esau Sells His Birthright

29Now Jacob cooked a stew; and Esau came in from the field, and he was weary. 30And Esau said to Jacob, “Please feed me with that same red stew, for I am weary.” Therefore his name was called [g]Edom.

31But Jacob said, “Sell me your birthright as of this day.”

32And Esau said, “Look, I am about to die; so what is this birthright to me?”

33Then Jacob said, [h]“Swear to me as of this day.”

So he swore to him, and sold his birthright to Jacob. 34And Jacob gave Esau bread and stew of lentils; then he ate and drank, arose, and went his way. Thus Esau despised his birthright.

[Just mythoughts]

Son of the red earth. Made of red clay. Red (ruddy) skin. Caucasian, etc. Esau is a little different, described as having red hair. He mixed with some descendants of Ham (including the people of Ishmael's mother), but his people eventually migrated west to become the Iberian people (Spain, Italy, then up to the Balkans--Roman Empire west and east, etc.).

Esau came from Isaac and Rebekah. He did mix up his progeny but that does not describe his birth. Ham would have been of the Adam's progeny and would have been the same ethnicity... Remember the cause that Noah and his family were saved... their bloodline had not been polluted ..

Esau's bunch settled away from the 'fat' of the land, to this day continue to struggle with the offspring of his brother Jacob ... but they sure are not the Arab world.

[Luke21]

Not a common view but I always thought Esau was the most righteous man in Genesis.

[Cronos]

That nation would intermingle with her neighbors, the Ammonites, Moabites, and Ishmaelites as well as a host other Arab tribes. They would worship a variety of false “gods” until they would eventually be united in an Arab based form of paganism, called Islam. Thus the nation of Edom would become the Islamic “Ummah” which would spread across the globe incorporating many other nations. Islam would encode within its tenets the grievances of Ishmael, Esau and Hagar.

This is a false statement of yours

.

.

read the book of Maccabees.

The Jewish King (a Maccabean dynast) John Hyrcanus (c. 125 BC) Conquered and forcibly converted the Edomites to Judaism c. 100 BC and incorporated them into the Jewish nation.

Antipater the Idumaean, the progenitor of the Herodian Dynasty along with Judean progenitors, that ruled Judea after the Roman conquest, was of mixed Edomite/Judean origin.

According to Josephus, during the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE by Titus, 20,000 Idumaeans, under the leadership of John, Simeon, Phinehas, and Jacob, helped the Zealots fight for independence from Rome, who were besieged in the Temple. The Edomites were destroyed fighting for the Jewish nation in 70 AD

[Cronos]

Furthermore, The modern Arab Muslim near eastern world is now Edom. -- that's false again

the Arabs are descended in part from Ishmael - and that is specifically the Nejd Arabs, not the Yemeni Arabs, nor the Arabized Syrians, Iraqis, Egyptians, North Africans (who aren't Arab at all)

Edom's destruction in Isaiah describes perfectly the result of the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests of the region.

Edom was destroyed conclusively in 70 AD -- when they were fully assimilated into the Jewish people

The descendants of the Edomites today are

1. Jews
2. "Arabs"
3. Syrians
4. Europeans
5. South Asians
6. Probably some other peoples around the world

[Cronos]

Son of the red earth. Made of red clay. Red (ruddy) skin. Caucasian, etc.

The name Adam is derived from the root אדם (A.D.M), which is a verb meaning “to be red or ruddy” (Strong’s #119). The other words that are derived from this verbal root are

• אדמה (adamah) A noun meaning “ground” from its reddish color (Strong’s #127)
• אדום (edom) An adjective meaning “red” or “reddish.” (Strong’s #122)
• אודם (odem) This is a reddish gemstone, probably a Carnelian (Strong’s #124)
• אדמוני (admoniy) A word meaning “ruddy” (Strong’s #132)
• אדמדם (adamdam) A word meaning “reddish” (Strong’s #125)

As you can see, all of these words have something to do with being “red.” So the name אדם (Adam, Strong’s #120) means man, from his “reddish” color, from the blood inside. The root of the verbal root אדם (A.D.M) is probably דם (dam, Strong’s #1818), meaning “blood,” which is of course a reddish color.

That's not "Caucasian" specifically - it's all humans

[Cronos]

Ishmael and the connection to Islam was added by Muslim writers only in the 8th century.

Prior to that, when they conquered Jerusalem and the Sassanid empire and North Africa they were just termed Saracens and considered by many as an offshoot of Judaism. They also first bowed in worship to Jerusalem, changing it to Mecca only in the 700s.

The usurpation of Ishmael was only in the 8th century when they sought to create their religion as distinct from Judaism and from Christianity.

Prior to that there is no, zero, nada, zilch, nothing, no mention of Ishmael in Arabic or Yemenite writing.

There was a Jewish king of Yemen - the Himyarite kingdom in Yemen in the 500s called Dhu Niwas who converted to Judaism and persecuted the Christians in his kingdom before being smacked down by the Christian Axumite (Ethiopian) empire.

[Cronos]

How was David described? One will not find the ethnicity of the Arab world.

What are you talking about?

here are some Arabs

here's the "Palestinian" Ahed Tamima being escorted by Jewish Israeli policewomen

Syrians

[pastorbillrandles]

Thanks Cronos. It may be an oversimplification , and I may have worded it badly but my statement isn’t false. I will be answering more fully in an upcoming article called “ no one wants to be Edom” , which seeks to identify ‘who is the Edom of last days prophecy?”. I should have said something like “ over the centuries unto this day...,” . What you said about the development and fall of the kingdom of Edom is all true, ( I made some of those posts in an earlier article). However, scripture speaks of an Edom which will be punished in the last days for violence and hatred of Israel and appropriating the Holy Land and sacred sites of the Jews...thanks for your input

[Just mythoughts]

This is what the Heavenly Father had to say about Esau - Edom - the bear nation.

Malachi 1:1

1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.

5 And your eyes shall see, and ye shall say, The Lord will be magnified from the border of Israel.

And Paul gave a second witness to the mind of our Heavenly Father found in Romans 9.

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.

10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

********11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)******

12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

*******13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.*****

14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

[Just mythoughts]

Not my job, duty, calling to pull the scales of deception... Your ‘rock’ is not my ‘Rock’.