Societal Characteristics of the Last Days: Part 1

RR ^ | 11/28/20 | Mark A. Beck

[SouthernClaire]

“Now the second point that many evangelicals in the USA fail at is realizing that English is a limited language - and that there are other languages ...”

You mean that Evangelicals are beneath your dignity.

[SouthernClaire]

“I love to repeat how silly the ‘Easter is a pagan festival derived from Eostre, a pagan goddess’”

By all means, Cronos. Yes, have at it and really show them something!

/s (just in case)

[SouthernClaire]

“Now the second point that many evangelicals in the USA fail at is realizing that English is a limited language - and that there are other languages ...”

You really think the backwoods rednecks can read even “Engrish,” Cronos?

[Cronos]

Show them something? Nah, it’s telling people that they have their facts wrong.

Like those who say global warming or pre-tribulation rapture.

[Cronos]

Nope, there are lots of backwoods rednecks who can read and write very well - they tend to be Catholic or at a pinch Methodist.

If you did read a Bible and history, you’d see that the pre-tribulation rapture is biblically and historically false

[Cronos]

Nope, I mean that some of those who call themselves evangelicals — perhaps you missed the “that many...” is not the same as “all”

Anyway, some of those who call themselves evangelical blindly believe false news like the pre-trib rapture or other non-biblical, non-historical nonsense

[Cronos]

Regarding Easter and Christmas,

I didn't bring up Christmas - I spoke about the falsity of somehow tying Pascha to a non-existent pagan goddess.

As I said - Pascha is only called Easter in English and Ostern in German - in every other language bar polski it is call Pascha/Passover/Pasqua or some variant on passover

[Cronos]

Regarding Easter and Christmas, ...how the Jewishness has been stripped by religious organizations for their own selfish motives.

What are you talking about? Pascha is based on the Jewish lunar calendar.

And Christmas has no Rabbinical Jewishness associated with it.

[Cronos]

Regarding Easter and Christmas, ...like the lie of Jesus' birth on Christmas 25.

It's not a lie - it was a calculated date -- if one read Hippolytus of Rome in Commentary on the book of Daniel written in AD 204 one reads that (here's a link to the pdf

For the first advent of our Lord in the flesh, when he was born in Bethlehem, was December 25th, Wednesday, while Augustus was in his forty-second year, but from Adam, five thousand and five hundred years. He suffered in the thirty-third year, March 25th, Friday, the eighteenth year of Tiberius Caesar, while Rufus and Roubellion were Consuls.

The reference to Adam can be understood in light of another of Hyppolytus’ writings, the Chronicon, where he explains that Jesus was born nine months after the anniversary of Creation. According to his calculations, the world was created on the vernal equinox, March 25, which would mean Jesus was born nine months later, on December 25

In the West, the birth of Christ was celebrated on December 25, and in the East on January 6 -- and the Eastern Orthodox and the Oriental orthodox still celebrate it n Jan 6 - and that has been well known for centuries

The Church never claims nor claimed 25 December as the concrete date, just that this is the date the Latin rite celebrates the birth of the Lord -- the Marointe, Syro-Malabar, Byzantine etc. CATHOLIC rites celebrate it on 6 January.

[Cronos]

They are seeking to know more about Christ Jesus and, for that, one should not ever shake the finger at them. Having that tender conscience before God is precious. We should ever extend grace to those who are learning about God and never be puffed up enough to think that they are somehow lower in station. God forbid.

yes, and the danger is if they draw to conclusions without reading the whole. That is the flaw in pre-tribulation rapturism and in many other philosophies that arose in the 19th century.

These seek to learn about God, but they are then twisted into theories rising in the 19th century

[Cronos]

The greater issue is the replacement of Israel by some which puts God Almighty in the blasphemous position of making promises that He won’t fulfill. I would hope you agree.

Now this is again trying to shoe-horn 19th century concepts like rapture or replacement theology.

The view as in the book of Revelation and in Church theology ever since is that after the crucifixion, the curtain of the Jewish sanctuary was torn in two (Mk 15:37-39, Lk 23:44-46, Mt 27:51) and the fledgling Church became the New Israel. One might say God's marriage to his people was "consummated" at the Pentecost.

Israel includes BOTH Christianity (New Israel), and it's older brother in the faith of Abraham (Jewish people yet to accept Christ).

This is clearly seen in Paul's epistles that there is no Jew and no Greek in Christ, but ONE

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. (Romans 2:28, 29)

Jesus is the END of the Mosaic law - both its goal and its terminus.

Jesus was a Jew, Mary was a Jew, Joseph was a Jew, all 12 of the apostles were Jews, every author of every book of Scripture, except Luke, were Jews

Christianity is at its heart Jewish. Paul in Romans talks about the Gentiles being grafted in to the promise of Israel... it's not trying to recreate or layer on top of the Mosaic law, but the Mosaic law was pointing to something which is a natural completion. So we would expect to see within Christianity elements of Judaism, and in fact the early Church was so Jewish there was actually a debate about whether Gentiles would need to become Jews to become Christians (Galatians). Do the Gentile believers need to be circumcised and follow all the laws of Moses in order to become part of the Covenant Community? The answer was absolutely "no". Ironically we've come full circle and ... for a lot of people a legitimate question is if a Jewish person comes to Christ do they have to cease to become a Jew to be a Christian the answer to that is also "No!"... the Jewish roots of the faith are extraordinary."

[Cronos]

Jewish Festival	Catholic Equivalent
PASSOVER: Month in which the Passover occur is first month of the year is Nissan because it's the most important festival 10th day of month select perfect lamb 14th day slaughter Eat entire lamb to stop the angel of death Passover sacrificial lamb takes the place of the First born who were slaughtered	When we do the math, the 10th day of Nissan, Jesus enters Jerusalem, declared by Pontius Pilate to be without blemish. Crucified on the 14th day of Nissan Consume the sacrifice of Jesus in the Eucharist to conquer death The Last Supper, before Jesus is arrested, the next day he is slaughtered, to take our place
Festival of first fruits: is on the 1st day following the 1st Saturday of Passover, grain offering to the Lord so the rest of the crop would be acceptable.	Jesus Crucified on Friday the Sabbath, He arose from the dead on Sunday, which was on the Jewish festival of First Fruit. He is described as First fruit in Scripture pointing to him being the first to be resurrected from the dead.
Jewish harvest festival of Shavuot: is 50 days after the Passover. Commemorates Moses coming down from the mountain with the 10 commandments. The word of God written on stone. the first time he came down they were worshiping the golden calf idol. Moses smashed the stones. Moses asked the Levites to slaughter 3,000	Pentecost: Ancient Greek: Πεντηκοστή [ἡμέρα], Pentēkostē [hēmera], "the Fiftieth [day]" Holy Spirit falls on the disciples of Christ 50 days after the Resurrection. The law was written on their hearts that day. (Jeremiah says a new covenant will be written on our hearts... here it is... on the same day.) Pentecost Holy Spirit lands of the apostles, and they were all speaking in tongues, preached, and 3,000 were saved by becoming believers. This is the same day as Shavuot.

[Cronos]

On the Babylonian Talmud, I’ve still got it on my bookshelf and appreciate the reminder to chuck the damn thing in the garbage where it belongs.

No, it does not belong in the garbage. It is an extraordinary erudite exposition of rabbinical Jewishness. And more importantlyf for us Christians it tells us how Rabbinical Jews (what we simply call "Jews) today think.

It's for the same reason I have read the Quran, Hadiths and the little handbooks that Muslims give their children "what is Christianity" (hint - it tells them that we worship 3 gods and that Jesus will come and kill all Christians) - because that's how you will know how they think

A rabbinical Jew will understand Jesus through the prism of what he was taught Jesus said and did. A Muslim will understand Isa through the prism of what they were taught that Jesus said and did

[Cronos]

And if I had a nickel for every time I’ve read that the Catholic organization is the only way to get saved, I’d be a millionaire. Again, the puffed up arrogance. I can’t imagine having to give account for it. But doesn’t it (Catholicism) teach that Muslims are going to Heaven?

Actually read what the Catholic church says about itself, not what others say about it

fromthe Catechism

"The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.

Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."

It then explains, How are we to understand this affirmation "Outside the Church there is no salvation" Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me” (Jn 14:6). Then Jesus explained it further as

• He who believes and is baptized will be saved. (Mk 16:16)
• Unless you repent you will all likewise perish. (Lk 13:3)
• He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. (Jn 6:54)

Notice that in these three verses Jesus associated salvation with baptism, confession, and the Eucharist, respectively.

Does this means those outside are going to hell? -- Not if you truly believe in Jesus as Lord, God and Savior, repent, believe, be baptized and endure to the end

=======

And no, we don't say Muslims are going to heaven. We say that plan of salvation includes those who SAY they hold the faith of Abraham and who adore the one merciful God. Muslims don't adore the one merciful God - at least the "good Muslims" don't -- the "bad Muslims" reject Allah and jihadi-ism. they have a concept of a one-god, but they worship Al-illah, not the Lord

[Cronos]

Catholics have heard the Gospel and have made their choice between man’s word and God’s Word.

Note that the pre-tribulation rapture is Man's word. God's word is Jesus.

Hardly no Catholic seems to know that Paul, and only Paul, was sent to the Gentiles

Sigh.. who first converted gentiles? Peter.

And no, if you read the book of Acts, it is clear that Paul was not the ONLY one sent to the gentiles

Firstly - Peter baptised gentiles - not only was he the first to do so, he went to Rome where he conducted further baptisms bringing the ire of the authorities on him

Secondly - Paul is linked with Barnabas who was a Cypriot Jew

Thirdly - the Roman authorities cracked down on the Jesus Movement as they were converted gentiles - they didn't care what sects the crazy Judaics had, but if they tried to convert good pagans, they were in for trouble

Fourthly - further afield, Thomas went to india and converted local Brahmins to Christianity (the Marthomite Catholic church)

Paul was the PRINCIPLE apostle to the gentiles as we read in Romans 11, but he was definitely not the "only"

[Cronos]

Catholicism builds its house on Peter which is so wrong and weird, to say the least, since he was sent to the circumcision (read that, “Jews”).

Again, you haven't really read what Catholicism says of itself rather what others say of Catholicism.

The Bishop of Rome rests its authority on being the see of Peter AND Paul. both of them were martyred on the outskirts of Rome and they have basilicas to it.

Peter was not just sent to the circumcision - come on, as I said above, he baptised gentiles before Paul, he then went to Rome and was baptising gentiles there.

have you read 1 Peter? he addresses it to the gentile converts of Asia Minor

[Cronos]

The entire concept that Paul was the only one baptizing gentiles is proven false with the ancient church of the east

The founding fathers of this church were Thaddeus of Edessa, one of the seventy disciples of Jesus - most likely Thaddeus the Apostle. He was a JEW born in Edessa and prea ched in Mesopotamia, Syria and Persia and converted many gentiles

It is also proven false by the activities of the apostle Bartholomew who preached in Parthia and northern India. This folded into the Assyrian church

Your theory is also false as seen by the activities of the Apostle Thomas in India as I pointed out

All three of these apostles baptised gentiles.

[SouthernClaire]

Thanks for your many replies. I don’t know where you came up with half of it or why you’re attempting to throw it into the mix at this point, but thanks just the same.

[Cronos]

Where I “came up” with these

1. About Catholicism - you can read this directly on the Catechism of the Catholic church - basically what the Catholic Church says it believes. Nearly all of what you said we Catholics believe is what others say we believe and those external views of what we believe are false

2. About the Ancient church of the east - I had the honor to tour Iraq, Iran, southern India in the period before the second Gulf War and meet these ancient Christians whose pagan ancestors were converted to Christianity by the Apostles Bartholomew or Thaddeus or Thomas.

[Cronos]

One more to add in

Acts 9:15 about Paul:

15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for this man is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before Gentiles, kings, and Israelites

Paul’s commission was ALSO to Israelites, just as the commission to the gentiles was also shared by Thomas, Bartholomew and Thaddeus and Peter etc.