The Gap Between Church and Synagogue...Noahide error

https://billrandles.wordpress.com/2020/10/15/the-gap-between-church-and-synagogue-noahide/ ^ | 10-15-20 | Bill Randles

[boatbums]

We keep track. We count. (C’mon...Jews!) We know who are the actual living sons-after-son of King David. We are the REAL ones we’ve been waiting for— to ironically borrow from liberals again.

Did first century (CE/AD) Jews not count or keep track? The lineage of Jesus is spelled out via His mother as well as his legal father in the gospels of Matthew 1 and Luke 3 and they both show He is of King David's line.

[boatbums]

How do you explain away the resurrection of Jesus?

[boatbums]

Of whom was the prophet Zechariah speaking when he foretold:

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

[Phinneous]

Are you implying Mary’s (most likely Miriam, right, like Moses’ own sister’s name) Mary’s husband impregnated her? That’s how patrilineal descent works for Jews.

So I disagree. (And place no credence in the NT anyway, but you knew that.)

[sasportas]

The 70 week prophecy of Daniel has the Messiah being “cut off,” meaning killed, BEFORE the fall of Jerusalem IN 70 AD...when both the city and the sanctuary (the temple) were destroyed.

Yet most of these posters on this thread, many of them Noahides, must have a different Messiah than Jesus - who was “cut off” (crucified) before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD!

The true Messiah WAS killed (crucified) before the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. AND according to the New Testament resurrected the third day, to ascend to heaven where he is at the right hand awaiting all his enemies to be put under his feet.

Which means, since these posters on this thread do NOT believe it was Jesus who fulfilled “the Messiah” in Dan. 9:25,26, the Messiah they ARE looking for will be the false one, the antichrist.

“Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto THE MESSIAH the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks...And after threescore and two weeks shall MESSIAH BE CUT OFF, but not for himself, and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.” Dan. 9:25,26.

The apostle Peter preached this at Pentecost:

Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

[Phinneous]

Here is a very brief answer. Not 3 mi uses of your time to watch a silly Jew. If you’re serious.... There is nothing to “get around” ma’am.

https://youtu.be/ZqII2kFP2fg

[Phinneous]

I think there’s wonderful interaction taking place here. When the Jews and Noahides pipe up it’s much more traffic than the Pastor usually gets. BZ!

You can’t prove a thing with the NT in this arena though. Show us your OT proofs and we’ll show you the mistranslation, out-of-context quote, or blatant lie behind it.

[Songcraft]

Noahide bump.

[sasportas]

You won’t believe unless it is something from the Torah?

“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel,” Gen. 3:15.

Women don’t have “seed,” you know. You refuse to believe it, but this prophecy from the Torah prophesies THE SON OF GOD...who was both the woman’s (Mary) and GOD’S seed.

Moreover, in supernatural conflict with the serpent and his seed this “seed of the woman” was “bruised” at the cross, not a death blow for he was resurrected three days later, he arose victoriously from the enmity with but a bruise.

And is at the right hand of God awaiting his foes to be put under HIS feet. He will bcrush the head of the serpent, and all those who reject him for the false Messiah (the seed of the serpent), at his second coming.

[sasportas]

Typo

He will crush the head of the serpent, and all those who reject him for the false Messiah (the seed of the serpent), at his second coming.

[wardaddy]

Amen

Ask non believers to name another deity who so loved his creations as to come and live as they do and die worse than 99.9% of them ever will to prove his love and that he can do it too

All the while at any moment he could have ended his suffering ....

To prove he cares about us ...his creation to light a pathway which by mere acceptance in our hearts we can enjoy eternity in his presence devoid of pain emotional or physical and instead joys as we’ve never known

Most other religions offer tangible rewards or even rewards of the flesh...some eastern philosophies offer simply evolution

How that is not obvious to anyone just as a logical observance beats me

Christianity is not explained away by bible verses. Our biblical history is told that way but Gods reach into our souls and psyche is far more than that

Naysayers ...especially those who reject the Christianity they were born to more often than not is a reflection of personal issues and projection borne of problems with the denomination or clergy more than the overall general faith

Thanks for your work.

[Cronos]

Phinneous You think you’ll make a few renovations and lump your clay right on top of it. - you mean like the Talmud?

Let's be precise here. You are ethnically Jewish and religiously Pharisee-derived-Jewish.

Let's stick to the religious aspect -- the other 2nd temple sect of Judaism was/is Jesus-movement Judaism or Christianity. This dates to at least 33 AD

Pharisee-derived-Judaism dates to 70 AD and the recreations under Rabbi Ben Zakkai. So "we Jews" includes Christians in the religious sense.

Pharisee Judaism as read in the Talmud negates the omnipotence of God, binding Him. That's why the Sadducees rejected what your spiritual ancestors preached. That's also why the Samaritans - a first temple Israelite religion, reject what the Pharisee-Jews teach.

So before accusing others of "adding on the perfect vessel", I'd suggest taking a look at the numerous additions as read in the Talmud

[Cronos]

aMPU, it is not 20th century. It’s been there since the time of Christ.

Many Christians of today forget that

1. “Christianity” is a 2nd temple Jewish sect dating to 30 AD or 33 AD
2. “Judaism” as we know it today is derived from ANOTHER 2nd temple Jewish sect - the Pharisees.
2.1. The pharisees are those who emphasised the Oral Torah which Jesus railed against.
2.2. The pharisee invented the synagogue Judaism in AD 70 after the destruction of the 2nd temple (as foreseen in the Olivet discourse) to create a new sect that didn’t depend on temple sacrifices.
2.3. this means that what we call “Judaism” is more precisely Pharisee-Judaism and is a few decades YOUNGER than Christianity (Jesus-movement Judaism)

Too many evangelicals are hooked on the Pharisee-Jewish sect. I mean yes, they are our sister religion and yes, they are closest to Christianity out of all the other religions, but they are ultimately part of the sect (the Pharisees) that not only rejected christ, but in 70 AD in the council of Jamnia edited or created their Hebrew Bible canon to specifically exclude references that showed Jesus is the Messiah — they couldn’t exclude ALL, but they could and did exclude some.

[Cronos]

Judaism in the Torah doesn't have an explicit afterlife -- belief in an afterlife isn’t universal in Judaism, either. There are verses in the Tanakh that seem to hint at something, but they aren’t clear at all.

The more common "Jewish" or rather belief is that a soul goes through Purgatory for up to a year, although the time could be as little as five minutes ( or not at all, in the cases of very righteous individuals). While there, the soil “burns” with shame at the reality of his/her life, seeing all the consequences of every action (or inaction), word, thought, missed opportunity, etc.

The idea of a corporeal god-son taking sin and self sacrificing is, as I understand, totally alien and contrary to God in Judaism. -- not really, the first Christians were all Jews. In fact really until 70 AD Christianity was a Jewish sect

The idea of a corporeal God-son is there in the Tanakh (Daniels "like a son of god" for instance) and taking sin - a sacrificial lamb, and self-sacrificing - Samson among others

Don't mix up Pharisee-Judaism with overall 2nd temple Judaism

[Cronos]

Net net, Jesus did chose that ending. The sin against the perfect one requires the perfect sacrifice.

[Cronos]

We keep track. We count. (C’mon...Jews!) We know who are the actual living sons-after-son of King David.

The stereotype of Jews as counting (misers) is well... a stereotype that is more apt for Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews due to their being banned from non-intellectual work. I don't see Misrahi Jews in Yemen or the Bene-Israelis in India having the same stereotype.

In fact taking the Bene-Israelis in Bassein, Maharashtra - they were farmers and spoke Marathi and were not stereotyped as in Christian or Muslim lands

[Cronos]

Correct. The book of Daniels explicitly ends with the destruction of Jerusalem, with the abomination in the temple and then Jerusalem rendered stone from stone.

Jesus warned the High Priests that they would see His “coming to the Father on clouds in glory” - as in the book of Daniel where the Son of Man is coming TO the Throne of the Ancient of Days. And the High Priests had ample time to regret their rejection of their Messiah

[Cronos]

Not 3 mi uses of your time to watch a silly Jew.

if I wanted to watch a silly Jew, I'd watch Adolph Marx - Harpo. Stop this "silly Jew" business -- the people on this forum are Semitophiles if anything. European Jews are great at comedy and good at numbers, but that's due to the circumstances. Bulgarian Jews aren't given those stereotypes and neither are the Bassein or Cochin Jews.

[ckilmer]

I’m an evangelical christian—meaning I have the high view of Christ—meaning he is fully God and fully man. I tell people this view is the crazy heart of Christianity —after all how can the maker of the universe reside in a fleshly weak mortal body—however, this terrible tension is also the reason that the scientific revolution first emerged from the christian world.

I was in a conversation here with some orthodox freepers here a couple months ago after red heifer was discovered in South America. My understanding is that they can’t sacrifice a red heifer until the new temple was built.

For many years, my pastor was a messianic Jew. So this question is topical for me. I told the orthodox that in practical terms the world is coming to an end as the place of human history. That people like Elon Musk says its now too dangerous for earth to be the only place for humans to exist. So there is a big push now for colonization of the moon and Mars.

What’s this have to do with the red heifer movement and the construction of the new temple?

There are symetries.

My wag on when construction will start on the new temple— is about 2060. Why 2060? That was the date the Issac Newton said the apocolypse and the second coming would occur. As well, 2060 fits within roughly the same time frame as Kurizweil’s singularity. wikipedia describes it this way: Kurzweil describes his law of accelerating returns which predicts an exponential increase in technologies like computers, genetics, nanotechnology, robotics and artificial intelligence. Once the Singularity has been reached, Kurzweil says that machine intelligence will be infinitely more powerful than all human intelligence combined. Afterwards he predicts intelligence will radiate outward from the planet until it saturates the universe. The Singularity is also the point at which machines intelligence and humans would merge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Singularity_Is_Near

This is crazy stuff. I think it safer to say that the singularity is the place where predicable change become unpredictable change. The greatest science fiction writer of the 19th century was able to predict most of the technological develpment through the 1970’s. After that, invention went off his map. Kurizweil’s map only goes about half as long —sometime between the 2040 and 2060 before new technology goes off his map. (To live in the new world is to be off the map of the new and old testaments—when they were written.)

What does this have to do with the red heifer movement and the construction of the temple?

Something other worldly has to happen in order to trigger the construction of the temple.

What other worldly event would would trigger temple construction?

The best calculation I’ve seen for the date of the start of temple construction—is the date when warp drive is invented which enables travel to the distant stars.

Star Trek future history says

On Earth, warp drive was invented in 2063 by noted scientist Zefram Cochrane.

So all symetries being equal—somewhere in this time frame —when warp drive is invented—would be the time when construction would start on the third temple.

[Phinneous]

Cool stuff. Thanks.
I can’t give it full answers now— The Sabbath is coming! (and I have kitchen duty, like preparing my Sabbath cholent - a stew that cooks from Friday afternoon to Saturday afternoon— which we have been eating since the Sadducees times, to figuratively thwart their interpretation of scripture alone (without the Oral Torah...an aside)) BUT in brief, we don’t believe even rabbis who predict a date. It’s all nice-to-know but redemption can happen anytime and the paradox of the Jews is that we want it to happen now! And since it didn’t, we know it will happen NOW! And yet again I have to work harder to perfect myself, my thoughts, speech, and actions, and to help fellow Jew and non-Jew alike to understand what G-d wants us to do.

Full-flesh-G-d? That is, ironically, so tantalizingly close to the kabbalistic and chassidic view of G-d— and so far away. Not a single G-d-man, but when the physical messiah comes, we will all have the sight to see G-d in all of the world’s details. Spirituality behind all physicality.

This is lost even to your (probably) orthodox Jewish friends, assuming they don’t study the mystical side of Torah.

The paradox I spoke of is the Dilithium Crystal of the Jews— the infinite energy core that drives us, even in the face of a billion moslems and even more Christians.

Gotta run.
Phinneous.