666? And we are all brothers?
Posted on 09/17/2020 8:04:52 PM PDT by ebb tide
Tim Staples can’t be faulted for this. The problem lies not with him, but with the false teachings of Vatican II about Islam, which put Catholics in an impossible position. There are numerous reasons why Catholics and Muslims do not worship the same God. I explain some below, and more here. But the ecumenical council says otherwise, and so either its teachings must be accepted and justified, or Catholics find themselves in a crisis of authority that calls into question some of the foremost dogmas of their Church about the authority of the popes and councils.
“Catholic Answers Ducks Loaded Question,” by Jules Gomes, ChurchMilitant.com, September 15, 2020:
SAN DIEGO (ChurchMilitant.com) – A prominent Catholic apologist has sparked an explosive debate after he evaded a charged question asking whether the Catechism was right to affirm that Muslims “together with us [Catholics] adore the one, merciful God.”
A questioner asked Tim Staples how the Catholic Catechism’s teaching on Catholics and Muslims worshipping the same God squared with Jesus’ words “whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him,” from John 5.
In the Sept. 5 video titled, “How Do Muslims Worship the Same God as Christians?” Staples, who is Catholic Answers’ Director of Apologetics and Evangelization, quotes Jesus’ words: “I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me.” (John 14:6)
However, the apologist immediately digresses into a discussion on “invincible ignorance,” insisting that “to knowingly reject the Son is to reject the Father.”
The apologist then links this doctrine to paragraph 841 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church: “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Staples acknowledges that paragraph 841 is quoting Vatican II’s Lumen Gentium 16, but insists that this teaching is “not contradicting Jesus Christ.”
“Jesus’ Church is simply elucidating what Jesus teaches,” Staples stresses, in defense of Vatican II.
But nowhere does Jesus or the Bible or 2,000 years of Sacred Tradition teach that Muslims are included in God’s plan of salvation. The theological assessment that “Islam’s God is also the same God as worshipped by Catholics,” as theologian Gavin D’Costa phrases it, appears for the first time in Vatican II in Nostra Aetate 3 and Lumen Gentium 16.
In comments to Church Militant, historian of Islam Robert Spencer observes how “Tim Staples spends a great deal of time in his answer talking about invincible ignorance, but that actually has nothing to do with the question of whether Muslims and Christians adore the same God, as Vatican II and the Catechism state.”
“Catholic apologists such as Tim Staples have to twist themselves into pretzels to make it appear as if Vatican II is correct on this point when there is a superabundance of evidence that it isn’t,” Spencer remarks.
“The Vatican II statement about Muslims says that they profess the faith of Abraham. It has nothing to do with whether they have heard the gospel or not,” he notes.
Spencer, author of 21 books on Islam, explains:
Islam denies the Trinity, the incarnation, and the divinity of Christ (Qur’an 5:116, 19:35), the Crucifixion (Qur’an 4:157) — and hence its redemptive value — and the Resurrection. It denies free will and says that God could have guided some people to the truth but decided arbitrarily to send them to Hell instead (Qur’an 32:13).
“This is part of a larger issue that has bedeviled the Church since the 1960s: What exactly is the authority of Vatican II? Do all its teachings require the assent of mind and will on the part of the believer?” Spencer asks….
“In fact, the false teaching about Christians and Muslims worshipping the same God is one of the foremost arguments for affirming that Vatican II is simply a pastoral council with no dogmatic value.”
The debate over Vatican II has raged recently with Bp. Robert Barron going on the offensive against critics of the council.
“Some Catholics in America today are increasingly vocal in their attacks on the Second Vatican Council — an ecumenical council of the Church summoned and presided over by the successor of Peter. How should we understand this disturbing trend?” asks Barron.
However, in his apologetics in defense of Vatican II, Barron never addresses the Islamic elephant in the conciliar chamber….
Spencer told Church Militant how he’d found “numerous Catholic spokesmen who are reluctant in the extreme to proselytize among Muslims, or to criticize Islam’s teachings of violence and subjugation, or even to speak out against the Muslim persecution of Christians because Vatican II says that we all worship the same God.”
“This teaching has caused an immense amount of confusion within the Church and misled all too many Catholics into thinking that Muslims are some sort of semi-Christian sect, a sect that teaches theological and moral errors which must never be noticed; to do so would be impolite and even un-Christian,” Spencer lamented.
Ping
Profesing to hold a faith doesn’t automatically mean you actually hold the true faith you claim to profess.
They worship a demon that they call Allah.
I have always thought that Catholics ultimately worshipped Jesus Christ. Granted, I have issues with a lot of what they believe, but I always thought that was the bedrock that we could agree on. That should not be controversial to say. Muslims worship an Arab pagan moon god called Allah.
The “Pope” should probably make this clear. You know, if he could take time out from his busy schedule of promoting Marxism.
Sounds like you're talking about the Francis.
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There was nothing in this this for anyone except the epileptic thief. His blind followers saw the "light" one day and even rebelled against him for taking too much of the stolen booty. What a joke that even after all this time, after all the bloodshed, the wars, the hatred, nothing will change. These Sarecens are deluded blind fools.
3/11/2018 - Yes, John Paul II really did kiss the Koran: The Evidence
Pope John Paul II, center, kisses the the Quran, Islam’s Holy book, in this May 14, 1999 picture taken at Vatican City. Chaldean Patriarch Raphael I Bidawid at left. AP Photo/L’Osservatore Romano
They claim they don’t. I know, let’s ask John Brennan.
That cardinal to the left of JPII looks like the ghost of John XXIII.
No they do not. Catholics, Orthodox and Protestants worship the Lord God of Heaven.
Moslems worship a moon god and his three daughters, the three stars.
Just ask any muslim.
They’ll all deny they worship the God of the “infidels”; but the fools at VCII claimed otherwise. And some fools are still doing so.
Allah had no son
Same is true of the Jewish G-d invented by post-Christ Judaism to escape accountability for their treatment of Him under the Roman occupation of Israel, and their subsequent eviction from it.
There can be ONLY one God, so the question is stupid. Anyone who worships God worships God. There is no need to use the words “the same” before God. God is unique and singular.
The question is about whether all religions have the same concept of God in their minds, and they don’t. The muslim concept of God is not the same as the Christian concept. The two ideas are incompatible. They both can’t be right.
The answer is, all worship God, but they see God differently.
Failure to define terms in a discussion leads to ludicrous outcomes.
Supporter of Pope Francis One World Abu Dhabi Movement Rabat Cardinal Lopez Romero was quoted as saying ” The stage of dialogue, which consisted of tolerance, is over.” Now, the “dialogue of friendship, hospitality, mutual knowledge, respect and openness to each other and collaboration to build a better world has begun.”
Followers of Islam will be laughably using those words as they chop the heads off of those who refuse to convert and destroy their places of worship
Followers of Mohammed not only claim, but truly believe that God has authorized them to kill those who refuse to submit to their version of Gods will.
That is a basic tenet of that religion. A claim which goes unchallenged which makes it a theocratic creed advocating a form of government that is to replace the existing one.
While it is understandable for atheists which most socialists are, not to approach that claim on a theological basis. Islam as construed with its portrayal of a merciless evil deity approving using deception and deceit is an abomination which must be discredited and condemned.
But believing by bombing and killing those who believe in it will end its practice will not.It can only be done by attacking its assertions and tenets. Certainly not by ignoring and denying they do not exist.
It is bewildering why many Christian clergy including my Pope concerned about quote, political correctness, unquote, refuse to address what an insult to God Islam is and worse yet are unable to condemn then convince and convert its advocates and adherents they are followers of an evil creed . Instead equates it with Judeo/Christianity because of its claim of being monotheistic
The Koran which was not given to Mohammed by God but by some angel .Demanding enforcement of sharia law which draws heavily from the Torah.It is a pseudo religious concoction using monotheistic selected texts, taken and misconstrued from the old (bible) and new testaments.
I can answer that: No!
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