Posted on 09/07/2020 7:14:02 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
A few months back, some guy began flirting with my 19-year old daughter via her Instagram account. This is (unfortunately) pretty common, but much to my delight she does a great job with slamming the door in their face.
However, this particular guy was more persistent than usual and wouldn’t back off. His tenacity led my daughter to use her excellent technical sleuthing skills to find out exactly who he was.
Turns out the guy was a married youth pastor.
My daughter found him, his church, his wife, and other details. That presented us with the dilemma of whether we should contact his church and wife and inform them of the guy’s problematic pastime.
The experience also led my daughter to open up to my wife and me about the continuing disappointment she has with other supposed Christians. She and my older daughter have stopped going to church because they found those in the young adult groups to be far less kind, welcoming and authentic than those in their secular college crowds.
We got story after story from her of young Christian guys going on mission trips who end up attempting to molest the girls in their group. Witnessing first-hand episodes of drug use, outlandish lying and deception and similar behaviors from their peers (and their peer’s parents) have both my girls thinking that people in the church cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.
Not exactly a pick-me-up kind of tale, huh?
But wait – aren't we told that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven? That if you ever find the perfect church, you shouldn’t join because you’ll spoil it (said Billy Graham and Charles Spurgeon)?
We say these things in hopes of convincing non-Christians that they shouldn’t let mistakes they’ve made in their life keep them from pursuing Christianity nor expect perfection from Christians when evaluating the faith. After all, the Bible tells us we all have a sin nature that causes us to fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23) and that, even after being born again, the same sin nature remains active and causes us to do wrong (Rom. 7).
But what if our critics are more right than we like to admit? What if hypocrisy and a spirit that is anything but Christlike typifies the Church’s behavior these days?
Studies done by David Kinnaman and his Barna group, which you can find summarized in books like unChristian and You Lost Me, show that the best argument against Christianity isn’t the problem of evil or any other apologetics-styled objection. Instead, it’s the lives lived out by professing Christians.
It’s what caused the German philosopher Nietzsche to say, “I might believe in the Redeemer if his followers looked more redeemed” and Gandhi to declare: “I like Christ, but I don’t like the Christians. The Christians are so unlike their Christ.”
We read in Scripture statements like, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Cor. 5:17) and “Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
If this is true, why is it that the “new things” and “newness of life” in professing Christian’s lives either seem completely absent or appear so seldom?
It’s at this point that many church leaders throw out the ‘church isn’t perfect’ line in hopes of blunting the accusation. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing it.
We’ve gotten to the point where this excuse uses Paul’s admissions of struggling with sin in Romans 7 like some kind of permission slip; it goes beyond admitting that we sin to almost justifying persistent sinful behavior. Plus, it does nothing to address the very real problem of incongruent behavior that exists between Christ and His Church.
I’d like to suggest a couple of possible root causes for what Kinnaman and others observe along with some cures for the issues.
I believe the biggest source of this problem to be the fact that today’s Church is 9-months pregnant with unbelievers. I say this not judgmentally, but rather because I used to be one.
There’s nothing wrong with unbelievers being in Church. But, there’s everything wrong with them staying unbelievers.
So many who sit in the pews think that because they believe in God, they’re saved and safe. So, you believe in God, do you? Big deal.
The Pharisees believed in God and Jesus rhetorically asked them how they would escape the sentence of Hell (Matt. 23:33). James told his readers if that’s all they possessed then they had nothing more than the demons (James 2:19).
When you combine a reluctance from the pulpit to offend audiences about the truth of their sin with nothing more than a general acknowledgement from that crowd that God exists, you have everything needed for a false faith, false assurance, and a life that in no way will live out the teachings of Christ because, simply put, it lacks the power to do so (e.g. Rom. 8:7).
Instead of services that resemble a comfy group Youtube session, the Church needs straightforward teaching that speaks the truth in love about sin in a way that makes an unbeliever’s conscience and soul uncomfortable to the point where they seek help. Only then will the unbeliever in the pew become a true Christian and start exhibiting the fruit and changed life that confirms a true conversion has taken place (James 2).
Lately I’ve noticed a very bad trend in my own life. When frustrated or angered, in the heat of the moment, I’ve started to let foul language fly.
This hasn’t been something with which I’ve ever really wrestled, and it’s bothered me greatly because Jesus said: “the mouth speaks that which fills the heart” (Luke 6:45). After some contemplation, I think I know what’s going on.
My wife and I have been consistently streaming various drama series that, while containing good story lines and acting, are overloaded with bad language. I’m convinced my new problem with expletives is related to that which I’ve been constantly letting in my ear-gate.
The battle with our fallen nature is real. Paul confirms this when he says, “For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please” (Gal. 5:17). Ingesting a constant, bad diet through the eyes, ears, wrong relationships and actions will result in ungodly habits forming, just like the old Church proverb says:
Two natures beat within my breast
The one is foul, the one is blessed
The one I love, the one I hate.
The one I feed will dominate.
This is why we’re told: “sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it” (Gen. 4:7). Disregarding this truth and immersing oneself in the world is a recipe for disaster where Christlikeness is concerned.
Look how fast it happened to me.
The letters of Paul are full of admissions about the struggles with sin and our spiritual war. But let’s not forget that the same Paul who wrote those things also wrote:
Paul didn’t let the reality of Romans 7 keep him from pursuing the goal that is in front of you and me each morning: Christlikeness. In fact, Paul was so confident of his behavior that he exhorted others to mimic him.
Would you feel comfortable right now doing the same?
No, the Church isn’t perfect, but if we’re not careful, we’ll use that reality as a green-light to sluff off sin and before you know it, you’re a married youth pastor who makes sexual advances over the Internet to 19-year old girls.
And that’s one tragic place to be.
Robin Schumacher is an accomplished software executive and Christian apologist who has written many articles, authored and contributed to several Christian books, appeared on nationally syndicated radio programs, and presented at apologetic events. He holds a BS in Business, Master's in Christian apologetics and a Ph.D. in New Testament. His latest book is, A Confident Faith: Winning people to Christ with the apologetics of the Apostle Paul.
And I guess at least SOME of these good Catholics were responsible for teaching the doctrine to the seven churches in Asia (that Catholics seem to ignore.)
And later; the Catholic leadership sent a letter outlining the things REQUIRED of Catholics to believe and do.
IIRC, it was chapter 15.
You are either a hypocrite or just plain ignorant:
Call no man father...
Why shouldn’t I just believe that both Matthew and James are heretics?
_______________________________________________
Well you could, I suppose. In the end we all have to decide who got Jesus Christ’s message right. I hope you’ll agree that some details are more important than others.
There have been a lot of contributions to Christian thought. I think if you could sit Paul, James, Peter, and Mathew down together, they’d agree on a lot of essentials. Would they have disagreements on the emphasis we place upon faith and deeds in the salvation of one’s soul? I happen to think they would. But they would ALL agree that faith in Jesus Christ and the WAY he taught us to live our lives is essential to being a Christian. And they would all agree that he proved his Divine Origin not just by the message he taught (which is superior to any religious message ever taught), but also by his miracles and Resurrection.
Christians believe they have His Truth as it stands and revealed through Jesus Christ, who is The Truth, without the ‘filter of catholicism’....
It’s not uncommon for people to tire from all the religious activities, the rituals, all the do’s and don’ts institutional churches teach you have to obey to please God. But Jesus tells us.....”Come To Me”...”Learn From Me”...for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” (Matt 11:28-30)
Christianity (Gods Truth) is summed up in the person of Christ.
Sounds good and easy, but do they believe in all of God’s Revealed Truth? Probably not, only what they are not “tired of”?
Your comment: “It’s not uncommon for people to tire from all the religious activities, the rituals, all the do’s and don’ts institutional churches teach you have to obey to please God. “
So many do not feel it is necessary to pray to God, repent their sins and participate with other members of the Body of Christ to honor God the Father in the Mass and consume the Body and Blood of Jesus?
Why did Jesus establish His Catholic Church and His Sacraments for our salvation, if we didn’t need His Church?
“It is written, ‘My house shall be4 called a house of prayer’;but you make it a den of robbers.” Matthew 20:13
“Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many, For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those that find it are few.” Matthew 7:13-14
Concerning self-deception. Matthew 7:21-23 also 24-27
May all seek and understand, believe and live God’s Truth.
Jesus consistently taught us to come to Him for the Truth. He gave us the written word as our guide into truth and His Spirit to teach us. Which is never tiresome....When a person becomes a Christian, ‘the assurance of truth becomes reality’....After one comes into a relationship with Jesus Christ they know the difference of before and after.
The Church as an institution is not the Savior nor required for Salvation.....we can and do bring the Gospel message to those outside the body of believers and trust they will one day accept the message we bring for their Salvation through Christ.....The churches where we gather are for believers to gather as the body of Christ which is what we are......for where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Unfortunately to often Christians believe more in defending the church they’re affiliated with than they are the message of the cross and by His Spirit living their life through Christ.
It’s true that the gospel is so simple that it disturbs those who consider themselves intelligent and important people ‘of the world’....which also can apply to those offices within the body of Christ.
You are correct. Not even one post. I am a happy ex catholic, and I am comfortable with that. 👍😁
I think it’s overlooked far too often that there is a Culture of catholicity more than an actual understanding or knowing what their church teaches. It’s also often generational belief. One simply accepts and goes through the motions and expectations rather than question or seek the truth, because....it’s taught they only have the truth..which of course isn’t true..as you and others have discovered.
That's right...And who was considerd righteous in the Old Testament under Old Testament Law???
Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
But who is considered righteous in the New Testament who are NOT under the law???
2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
That's ME...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
That's ME again...
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
And I'm justified...Deemed to be Just...
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Apparently you're not figured into our group, eh???
I think this is where your Catholic religion crashes...
Rom_4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Neither passage promises forgiveness of future sins.
You ever notice in 1 Corinthians at the judgement seat of Christ, the verses your religion erroneously claims is your purgatory that there is no judgement taking place??? It's like if you come before a circuit court judge with a bunch of speeding tickets...The judge looks at the paper work before him and says, 'well I see you've done some great community service and charity work...Other than that, there's nothing on your record...No tickets...You're free to go...
Perhaps you should study Luke 13:3 “unless you repent you will all likewise perish”
Hey you know what??? I have studied that, a lot...
But you're not going to suggest that repent means penance or doing some good works to please God, are you???
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction):
- repent.
Because repent means to 'change your mind' NOT do any kind of works...
Your comment: “But you’re not going to suggest that repent means penance or doing some good works to please God, are you??? “
So you are unwilling to do penance for your sins?
Penance is a supernatural moral virtue whereby the sinner is disposed to hatred of his sin as an offense against God and to a firm purpose of amendment and satisfaction.
The principal act in the exercise of this virtue is the detestation of sin, not of sin in general nor of that which others commit, but of one’s own sin.
The motive of this detestation is that sin offends God: to regret evil deeds on account of the mental or physical suffering, the social loss, or the action of human justice which they entail, is natural; but such sorrow does not suffice for penance.
On the other hand, the resolve to amend, while certainly necessary, is not sufficient of itself, i.e., without hatred for sin already committed; such a resolve, in fact, would be meaningless: it would profess obedience to God‘s law in the future while disregarding the claims of God‘s justice in the matter of past transgression.
Your comment:”2Ti_4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. That’s ME... “
So you are either dead or dying. Saint Paul is talking about the reward upon death for the saints as he feels that such a reward awaits him on his sense of accomplishment after 30 years of ministry without straying from the course set for him by Jesus.
Again there is no forgiveness of future sins. I think you are confused and just deny God’s Truth if it does fit your personal opinion.
Sorry, but salvation is NOT something that we can agree to disagree on.
Either Paul (and John, AND the church fathers) are correct and Jesus is the sole propitiation for our sins through God’s grace alone, and faith alone is the only way to obtain that grace, without works.
...or you are correct and both John and Paul are false teachers and are currently burning in Hell for leading the Church into falsehood.
Unless of course you either A: aren’t Catholic, or B: reject your own church councils.
And finally, to prove that the first Christians were in opposition to your claims of salvation...
Clement of Rome: “Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, “Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.” All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ANF: Vol. I, The Apostolic Fathers, First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Chapter 32.
Mathetes to Diognetus: “He Himself took on Him the burden of our iniquities, He gave His own Son as a ransom for us, the holy One for transgressors, the blameless One for the wicked, the righteous One for the unrighteous, the incorruptible One for the corruptible, the immortal One for them that are mortal. For what other thing was capable of covering our sins than His righteousness? By what other one was it possible that we, the wicked and ungodly, could be justified, than by the only Son of God? O sweet exchange (substitution)! O unsearchable operation! O benefits surpassing all expectation! that the wickedness of many should be hid in a single righteous One, and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors! Having therefore convinced us in the former time that our nature was unable to attain to life, and having now revealed the Savior who is able to save even those things which it was [formerly] impossible to save, by both these facts He desired to lead us to trust in His kindness, to esteem Him our Nourisher, Father, Teacher, Counselor, Healer, our Wisdom, Light, Honor, Glory, Power, and Life, so that we should not be anxious concerning clothing and food.” Ante-Nicene Fathers: Volume I, Mathetes to Diognetus, Chapter 9.
Marius Victorinus (born c. 280, converted around 356): Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ. For the patriarchs prefigured and foretold that man would be justified from faith. Therefore, just as it was reckoned as righteousness to Abraham that he had faith, so we too, if we have faith in Christ and every mystery of his, will be sons of Abraham. Our whole life will be accounted as righteous. Epistle to the Galatians, 1.3.7. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 39.
Chrysostom (349-407): The patriarch Abraham himself before receiving circumcision had been declared righteous on the score of faith alone: before circumcision, the text says, “Abraham believed God, and credit for it brought him to righteousness.” Fathers of the Church, Vol. 82, Homilies on Genesis 18-45, 27.7 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1990), p. 167.
Chrysostom (349-407): For if even before this, the circumcision was made uncircumcision, much rather was it now, since it is cast out from both periods. But after saying that “it was excluded,” he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? “By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.” See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the “law of faith?” It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only. NPNF1: Vol. XI, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 7, vs. 27.
Chrysostom (349-407): “For a person who had no works, to be justified by faith, was nothing unlikely. But for a person richly adorned with good deeds, not to be made just from hence, but from faith, this is the thing to cause wonder, and to set the power of faith in a strong light.” NPNF1: Vol. XI, Homilies on the Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans, Homily 8, Rom. 4:1, 2.
Chrysostom (349-407): “And this he removes, with great skill and prudence, turning their argument against themselves, and showing that those who relinquish the Law are not only not cursed, but blessed; and they who keep it, not only not blessed but cursed. They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed. And how does he prove all this? for it is no common thing which we have promised; wherefore it is necessary to give close attention to what follows.” NPNF1: Vol. XIII, Commentary on Galatians, 3:8.
Chrysostom (349-407): “For they said that the one who does not keep the law is cursed, while he shows that the one who strives to keep it is cursed and the one who does not strive to keep it is blessed. They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed.” Homily on Galatians 3.9-10. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 40. 3:8.
Chrysostom (349-407): God’s mission was not to save people in order that they may remain barren or inert. For Scripture says that faith has saved us. Put better: Since God willed it, faith has saved us. Now in what case, tell me, does faith save without itself doing anything at all? Faith’s workings themselves are a gift of God, lest anyone should boast. What then is Paul saying? Not that God has forbidden works but that he has forbidden us to be justified by works. No one, Paul says, is justified by works, precisely in order that the grace and benevolence of God may become apparent. Homily on Ephesians 4.2.9. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 134.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384) commenting upon 1 Cor. 1:4b: “God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VII: 1-2 Corinthians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1999), p. 6.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 1:11: “For the mercy of God had been given for this reason, that they should cease from the works of the law, as I have often said, because God, taking pity on our weaknesses, decreed that the human race would be saved by faith alone, along with the natural law.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 23.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 2:12: “For if the law is given not for the righteous but for the unrighteous, whoever does not sin is a friend of the law. For him faith alone is the way by which he is made perfect. For others mere avoidance of evil will not gain them any advantage with God unless they also believe in God, so that they may be righteous on both counts. For the one righteousness is temporal; the other is eternal.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 65.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 3:24: “They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 101.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 3:27: “Paul tells those who live under the law that they have no reason to boast basing themselves on the law and claiming to be of the race of Abraham, seeing that no one is justified before God except by faith.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 103.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 4:5: “How then can the Jews think that they have been justified by the works of the law in the same way as Abraham, when they see that Abraham was not justified by the works of the law but by faith alone? Therefore there is no need of the law when the ungodly is justified before God by faith alone.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 112.
Ambrosiaster (fl. c. 366-384), on Rom. 4:6, “‘righteousness apart from works’: Paul backs this up by the example of the prophet David, who says that those are blessed of whom God has decreed that, without work or any keeping of the law, they are justified before God by faith alone.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 113.
Theodore of Mopsuestia (350-428), commenting on Rom. 3:28: “Paul did not say we hold because he was himself uncertain. He said it in order to counter those who concluded from this that anyone who wished to could be justified simply by willing faith. Note carefully that Paul does not say simply without the law, as if we could perform virtue by wanting to, nor do we the works of the law by force. We do them because we have been led to do them by Christ.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), pp. 104-105.
Oecumenius (6th century), on James 2:23: “Abraham is the image of someone who is justified by faith alone, since what he believed was credited to him as righteousness. But he is also approved because of his works, since he offered up his son Isaac on the altar. Of course he did not do this work by itself; in doing it, he remained firmly anchored in his faith, believing that through Isaac his seed would be multiplied until it was as numerous as the stars.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 33.
Jerome (347-420) on Romans 10:3: “God justifies by faith alone.” (Deus ex sola fide justificat). In Epistolam Ad Romanos, Caput X, v. 3, PL 30:692D.
Jerome (347-420): “He who with all his spirit has placed his faith in Christ, even if he die in sin, shall by his faith live forever.” Jacques Le Goff, The Birth of Purgatory, trans. Arthur Goldhammer (Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1984), p. 61.
Pope Boniface to Caesarius: “[Phil. 1:29]–it appears obvious that our faith in Christ, like all good things, comes to individuals from the gift of divine grace and not from the power of human nature. We rejoice that your brotherhood perceived this truth in accordance with catholic faith, when a council of some bishops of Gaul was held. As you have indicated, they decided unanimously that our faith in Christ is conferred on men by the intervention of divine grace. They added that there is absolutely nothing good in God’s eyes that anyone can wish, begin, do, or complete without the grace of God, for as our Savior said, “Without me you can do nothing” [John 15:5]. For it is both a certainty and an article of catholic faith that in all good things, the greatest of which is faith, divine mercy intervenes for us when we are not yet willing [to believe], so that we might become willing; it remains in us when we are willing [to believe]; and it follows us so that we remain in faith.” William E. Klingshirn, trans., Caesarius of Arles: Life, Testament, Letters, Letter 20 – Pope Boniface to Caesarius; 2 (Liverpool: University Press, 1994), p. 125.
Cyril of Alexandria (412-444): “Seeing then that the law condemned sinners and sometimes imposed the supreme penalty on those who disregarded it and was in no way merciful, how was the appointment of a truly compassionate and merciful high priest not necessary for those on earth; one who would abrogate the curse, check the legal process, and free the sinners with forgiving grace and commands based on gentleness? ‘I,’ says the text, ‘I am he who blots out your transgressions for my own sake, and I will not remember your sins’ (Is. 43:25). For we are justified by faith, not by works of the law, as Scripture says (Gal. 2:16). By faith in whom, then, are we justified? Is it not in him who suffered death according to the flesh for our sake? Is it not in one Lord Jesus Christ?
Against Nestorius in Norman Russell, Cyril of Alexandria (London: Rutledge, 2000), p. 165.
Cyril of Alexandria (patriarch 412-444): “For truly the compassion from beside the Father is Christ, as he takes away the sins, dismisses the charges and justifies by faith, and recovers the lost and makes [them] stronger than death. For what is good and he does not give? Therefore the knowledge of God is better than sacrifice and holocausts, as it is brought to perfection in Christ. For by him and in him we have known the Father, and we have become rich in the justification by faith.” Commentary on Hosea. Alberto Ferreiro, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XIV: The Twelve Prophets (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2003), p. 29.
Bede (673-735), on Paul and James: “Although the apostle Paul preached that we are justified by faith without works, those who understand by this that it does not matter whether they live evil lives or do wicked and terrible things, as long as they believe in Christ, because salvation is through faith, have made a great mistake. James here expounds how Paul’s words ought to be understood. This is why he uses the example of Abraham, whom Paul also used as an example of faith, to show that the patriarch also performed good works in the light of his faith. It is therefore wrong to interpret Paul in such a way as to suggest that it did not matter whether Abraham put his faith into practice or not. What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, because the gift of justification comes only from faith.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 31.
Hilary of Poitiers (c 315-67) on Matthew 20:7: “Wages cannot be considered as a gift, because they are due to work, but God has given free grace to all men by the justification of faith.” George Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy (London: G. Norman, 1831), p. 230.
Basil of Caesarea (329-379): “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord, that Christ has been made by God for us righteousness, wisdom, justification, redemption. This is perfect and pure boasting in God, when one is not proud on account of his own righteousness but knows that he is indeed unworthy of the true righteousness and is (or has been) justified solely by faith in Christ. Chemnitz, Examination of the Council of Trent, Part 1, p. 505,
Ambrose (c. 339-97): “Thus I do not have the wherewithal to enable me to glory in my own works, I do not have the wherewithal to boast of myself, and so I will glory in Christ. I will not glory because I have been redeemed. I will not glory because I am free of sins, but because sins have been forgiven me. I will not glory because I am profitable or because anyone is profitable to me, but because Christ is an advocate in my behalf with the Father, because the blood of Christ has been poured out in my behalf.” FC, Vol. 65, Saint Ambrose, Seven Exegetical Works, Jacob and the Happy Life, Book 1, 6.21 (Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 1972), p. 133.
Ambrose (c. 339-97): “I have nothing, therefore, whereby I may glory in my works; I have nothing to boast of, and, therefore, I will glory in Christ. I will not glory because I am righteous, but because I am redeemed. I will not glory because I am free from sin, but because my sins are pardoned. I will not glory because I have done good to any one, or any one has done good to me, but because Christ is my advocate with the Father, and because Christ’s blood was shed for me.” George Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy (London: G. Norman, 1831), p. 220.
Ambrose (c. 339-97): “Therefore let no one boast of his works, because no one can be justified by his works; but he who is just receives it as a gift, because he is justified by the washing of regeneration. It is faith, therefore, which delivers us by the blood of Christ, because blessed is he whose sins are forgiven, and to whom pardon is granted.” George Finch, A Sketch of the Romish Controversy (London: G. Norman, 1831), p. 220.
Augustine (354-430): “Having now to the best of my ability, and as I think sufficiently, replied to the reasonings of this author, if I be asked what is my own opinion in this matter, I answer, after carefully pondering the question, that in the Gospels and Epistles, and the entire collection of books for our instruction called the New Testament, I see that fasting is enjoined. But I do not discover any rule definitely laid down by the Lord or by the apostles as to days on which we ought or ought not to fast. And by this I am persuaded that exemption from fasting on the seventh day is more suitable, not indeed to obtain, but to foreshadow, that eternal rest in which the true Sabbath is realized, and which is obtained only by faith, and by that righteousness whereby the daughter of the King is all glorious within.” NPNF1: Vol. 1, Letter 36, 25.
Augustine (354-430): “Not so our father Abraham. This passage of scripture is meant to draw our attention to the difference. We confess that the holy patriarch was pleasing to God; this is what our faith affirms about him. So true is it that we can declare and be certain that he did have grounds for pride before God, and this is what the apostle tells us. It is quite certain, he says, and we know it for sure, that Abraham has grounds for pride before God. But if he had been justified by works, he would have had grounds for pride, but not before God. However, since we know he does have grounds for pride before God, it follows that he was not justified on the basis of works. So if Abraham was not justified by works, how was he justified?” The apostle goes on to tell us how: What does scripture say? (that is, about how Abraham was justified). Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Rom. 4:3; Gen. 15:6). Abraham, then, was justified by faith. Paul and James do not contradict each other: good works follow justification
3. Now when you hear this statement, that justification comes not from works, but by faith, remember the abyss of which I spoke earlier. You see that Abraham was justified not by what he did, but by his faith: all right then, so I can do whatever I like, because even though I have no good works to show, but simply believe in God, that is reckoned to me as righteousness? Anyone who has said this and has decided on it as a policy has already fallen in and sunk; anyone who is still considering it and hesitating is in mortal danger. But God’s scripture, truly understood, not only safeguards an endangered person, but even hauls up a drowned one from the deep. My advice is, on the face of it, a contradiction of what the apostle says; what I have to say about Abraham is what we find in the letter of another apostle, who set out to correct people who had misunderstood Paul. James in his letter opposed those who would not act rightly but relied on faith alone; and so he reminded them of the good works of this same Abraham whose faith was commended by Paul. The two apostles are not contradicting each other. James dwells on an action performed by Abraham that we all know about: he offered his son to God as a sacrifice. That is a great work, but it proceeded from faith. I have nothing but praise for the superstructure of action, but I see the foundation of faith; I admire the good work as a fruit, but I recognize that it springs from the root of faith. If Abraham had done it without right faith it would have profited him nothing, however noble the work was. On the other hand, if Abraham had been so complacent in his faith that, on hearing God’s command to offer his son as a sacrificial victim, he had said to himself, “No, I won’t. But I believe that God will set me free, even if I ignore his orders,” his faith would have been a dead faith because it did not issue in right action, and it would have remained a barren, dried-up root that never produced fruit.” John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., WSA, Part 3, Vol. 15, trans. Maria Boulding, O.S.B., Expositions of the Psalms 1-32, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, 2-4 (Hyde Park: New City Press, 2000), pp. 364-365.
Augustine (354-430): “But what about the person who does no work (Rom 4:5)? Think here of some godless sinner, who has no good works to show. What of him or her? What if such a person comes to believe in God who justifies the impious? People like that are impious because they accomplish nothing good; they may seem to do good things, but their actions cannot truly be called good, because performed without faith. But when someone believes in him who justifies the impious, that faith is reckoned as justice to the believer, as David too declares that person blessed whom God has accepted and endowed with righteousness, independently of any righteous actions (Rom 4:5-6). What righteousness is this? The righteousness of faith, preceded by no good works, but with good works as its consequence.” John E. Rotelle, O.S.A., ed., WSA, Part 1, Vol. 11, trans. Maria Boulding, O.S.B., Expositions of the Psalms 1-32, Exposition 2 of Psalm 31, ¡±7 (Hyde Park: New City Press, 2000), p. 370.
Chrysostom (349-407): “For he makes a wide distinction between commandments and ordinances. He either then means faith, calling that an ordinance, (for by faith alone He saved us,) or he means precept, such as Christ gave, when He said, “But I say unto you, that ye are not to be angry at all.” (Matthew 5:22.) That is to say, If thou shalt believe that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.’ (Romans 10:6-9.) And again, The word is nigh thee, in thy mouth, and in thine heart. Say not, Who shall ascend into heaven, or who shall descend into the abyss?’ or, who hath brought. Him again from the dead?’ Instead of a certain manner of life, He brought in faith. For that He might not save us to no purpose, He both Himself underwent the penalty, and also required of men the faith that is by doctrines” NPNF1: Vol. XIII, Homilies on Ephesians, Homly 5, Ephesians 2:11,12.
Didymus the Blind (c. 313-398): “But how can some say that because the spirit which gives life to the body is more honorable than the body, therefore works are more honorable than faith? I have looked into this matter in some detail and shall try to explain my position on this. It is undoubtedly true that the spirit is nobler than the body, but this does not mean that works can be put before faith, because a person is saved by grace, not by works but by faith. There should be no doubt but that faith saves and then lives by doing its own works, so that the works which are added to salvation by faith are not those of the law but a different kind of thing altogether.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 34. See PG 39:1732, from his Commentary on James, 2:26b.
Andreas (c. 7th century): “Now someone might object to this and say: “Did Paul not use Abraham as an example of someone who was justified by faith, without works. And here James is using the very same Abraham as an example of someone who was justified not by faith alone, but also by works which confirm that faith?” How can we answer this? And how can Abraham be an example of faith without works, as well as of faith with works, at the same time? But the solution is ready to hand from the Scriptures. For the same Abraham is at different times an example of both kinds of faith. The first is prebaptismal faith, which does not require works but only confession and the word of salvation, by which those who believe in Christ are justified. The second is postbaptismal faith, which is combined with works. Understood in this way, the two apostles do not contradict one another, but one and the same Spirit is speaking through both of them.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 32. See J. A. Cramer, ed., Catena in Epistolas Catholicas (Oxford: Clarendon, 1840), 16, where he is commenting on James 2:21.
Fulgentius, bishop of Ruspe (c. 467-532) commenting on Eph. 2:8: “The blessed Paul argues that we are saved by faith, which he declares to be not from us but a gift from God. Thus there cannot possibly be true salvation where there is no true faith, and, since this faith is divinely enabled, it is without doubt bestowed by his free generosity. Where there is true belief through true faith, true salvation certainly accompanies it. Anyone who departs from true faith will not possess the grace of true salvation.” On the Incarnation, 1. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), pp. 133-134.
Ignatius of Antioch: “His cross, and his death, and his resurrection, and the faith which is through him, are my unpolluted muniments; and in these, through your prayers, I am willing to be justified (Epistle to Philadelphians).”
Athanasius: “It would, of course, have been unthinkable that God should go back upon His word [Genesis 2:17] and that humanity, having transgressed, should not die. it was unthinkable that God, the Father of Truth, should go back on His word regarding death [Genesis 2:17] in order to ensure our continued existence. He could not make Himself a liar. What, then, was God to do?. The Logos perceived that our perishing condition could not abolished except through death. Yet He Himself, as the Logos, being immortal and the Father’s Son, could not die. For this reason, therefore, He assumed a body capable of death, in order that this body, through belonging to the Logos Who is above all, might become a sufficient exchange in dying for all. His body, remaining imperishable through His indwelling, would thereafter put an end to perishing for all others as well, by the grace of the resurrection. By surrendering to death the body which He had taken, as an offering and sacrifice free from every stain, He immediately abolished death for His human brothers by the offering of the equivalent. For naturally, since the Logos of God was above all, when He offered His own temple and bodily instrument as a substitute for the life of all, He fulfilled by death all that was required.” On the Incarnation of the Logos, 6-7, 9.
Athanasius: “To provide against this also, He sends His own Son, and He becomes Son of Man, by taking created flesh; that, since all were under sentence of death, He, being other than them all, might Himself for all offer to death His own body; and that henceforth, as if all had died through Him, the word of that sentence might be accomplished (for all died in Christ), and all through Him might thereupon become free from sin and from the curse which came upon it, and might truly abide for ever, risen from the dead and clothed in immortality and incorruption.” Athanasius, Orations Against The Arians 2:69.
Clement of Rome: “We also, being called through God’s will in Christ Jesus, are not justified through ourselves, neither through our own wisdom or understanding, or piety, or works which we have done in holiness or heart, but through faith.” Epistle to the Corinthians.
Polycarp: “I know that through grace you are saved, not of works, but by the will of God, through Jesus Christ.” The Epistle of Philippians.
Hermas, “I have heard, sir, said I, from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins. He said to me, You have heard rightly, for so it is.” The Shepherd 4:3:12.
Justin Martyr: “”Whoever are convinced and believe that what they are taught and told by us is the truth, and professes to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to beseech God in fasting for the remission of their former sins, while we pray and fast with them. Then they are led by us to a place where there is water, and they are reborn in the same kind of rebirth in which we ourselves were reborn: In the name of God, the Lord and Father of all, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they receive the washing of water. For Christ said, Unless you be reborn, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven.” First Apology 61:1417.
Dialogue with Trypho: “No longer by the blood of goats and of sheep, or by the ashes of a heifer…are sins purged, but by faith, through the blood of Christ and his death, who died on this very account.”
Letter to Diognetus: “God gave his own Son the ransom for us…for what, save his righteousness, could cover our sins. In whom was it possible that we, transgressors and ungodly as we were, could be justified, save in the Son of God alone? …O unexpected benefit, that the transgression of many should be hidden in one righteous Person and that the righteousness of One should justify many transgressors.”
Irenaeus of Lyons: “Through the obedience of one man who first was born from the Virgin, many should be justified and receive salvation.” Adversus Haereses.
Irenaeus of Lyons: “For He came to save all through means of Himself all, I say, who through Him are born again to God infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence, the Prince of life, existing before all, and going before all.” Against Heresies 2:22:4.
Do you ever have any original answers??? Most everything you post you plagiarize from Catholic Answers...You guys don't even have to think...
And apparently that's why you guys can never respond to the multitude of scriptures that are posted to show that you are wrong...You wasted your education on human philosophy and Catholic Church function...You guys know nothing about God or Jesus...
That kind of describes me, when I was a catholic bro. I was clueless. I was blind to my lost, sinful state. I didn’t realize I was LOST. If I had kicked the crockpot, when I was a catholic, I would have gone straight to Hell. I wonder how many other Catholics fall into that same plight? I don’t know, but all I can do, is think of how lost I was, as a Catholic. Once I left the church, the spiritual blindness fell away from my eyes, like scales. I am comfortable with my decision to leave the Catholic Church. It was a beautiful thing to leave. 😁 By the way, my wife’s third language, is English. One day she someone kicked the crockpot. I said, what? She said, he died, he kicked the crockpot. I laughed, and said, no dear, the term is, he kicked the bucket, not the crockpot. Since then, I say the crockpot. 😁🤗😆🤣🤪
I hear ya...Seems a lot of Catholics are like most Democrats in that they don't want you to confuse them with the facts, their minds are already made up...
Years ago had a ride share with two guys I worked with...Al Thompson, an electrician and Bill Albright, a Millwright...Good men...I was proud to call them friends as well...They were much older than I was...
One day I ask Al if he was a Christian...He replied with, 'I'm a Catholic'...And I said, 'but are you a saved Catholic?' He immediately started steaming and replied, almost shouting, 'I've been an usher in the Catholic Church for 24 years'...He seemed confident that the conversation was over...And it was...
What's your wife's first and second language??? I'm still working on my first, and only language...
It’s hard to say which is her first and second. She is equally at home, speaking both. Since the people in the Southern Visayan region, generally speak Bisaya, she uses it the most, but is good at Tagalog too.
I wonder what Jesus thinks of it NOW?
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