Posted on 09/07/2020 7:14:02 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
A few months back, some guy began flirting with my 19-year old daughter via her Instagram account. This is (unfortunately) pretty common, but much to my delight she does a great job with slamming the door in their face.
However, this particular guy was more persistent than usual and wouldn’t back off. His tenacity led my daughter to use her excellent technical sleuthing skills to find out exactly who he was.
Turns out the guy was a married youth pastor.
My daughter found him, his church, his wife, and other details. That presented us with the dilemma of whether we should contact his church and wife and inform them of the guy’s problematic pastime.
The experience also led my daughter to open up to my wife and me about the continuing disappointment she has with other supposed Christians. She and my older daughter have stopped going to church because they found those in the young adult groups to be far less kind, welcoming and authentic than those in their secular college crowds.
We got story after story from her of young Christian guys going on mission trips who end up attempting to molest the girls in their group. Witnessing first-hand episodes of drug use, outlandish lying and deception and similar behaviors from their peers (and their peer’s parents) have both my girls thinking that people in the church cannot be trusted in any way, shape or form.
Not exactly a pick-me-up kind of tale, huh?
But wait – aren't we told that Christians aren’t perfect, just forgiven? That if you ever find the perfect church, you shouldn’t join because you’ll spoil it (said Billy Graham and Charles Spurgeon)?
We say these things in hopes of convincing non-Christians that they shouldn’t let mistakes they’ve made in their life keep them from pursuing Christianity nor expect perfection from Christians when evaluating the faith. After all, the Bible tells us we all have a sin nature that causes us to fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23) and that, even after being born again, the same sin nature remains active and causes us to do wrong (Rom. 7).
But what if our critics are more right than we like to admit? What if hypocrisy and a spirit that is anything but Christlike typifies the Church’s behavior these days?
Studies done by David Kinnaman and his Barna group, which you can find summarized in books like unChristian and You Lost Me, show that the best argument against Christianity isn’t the problem of evil or any other apologetics-styled objection. Instead, it’s the lives lived out by professing Christians.
It’s what caused the German philosopher Nietzsche to say, “I might believe in the Redeemer if his followers looked more redeemed” and Gandhi to declare: “I like Christ, but I don’t like the Christians. The Christians are so unlike their Christ.”
We read in Scripture statements like, “Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Cor. 5:17) and “Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life” (Rom. 6:4).
If this is true, why is it that the “new things” and “newness of life” in professing Christian’s lives either seem completely absent or appear so seldom?
It’s at this point that many church leaders throw out the ‘church isn’t perfect’ line in hopes of blunting the accusation. Frankly, I’m tired of hearing it.
We’ve gotten to the point where this excuse uses Paul’s admissions of struggling with sin in Romans 7 like some kind of permission slip; it goes beyond admitting that we sin to almost justifying persistent sinful behavior. Plus, it does nothing to address the very real problem of incongruent behavior that exists between Christ and His Church.
I’d like to suggest a couple of possible root causes for what Kinnaman and others observe along with some cures for the issues.
I believe the biggest source of this problem to be the fact that today’s Church is 9-months pregnant with unbelievers. I say this not judgmentally, but rather because I used to be one.
There’s nothing wrong with unbelievers being in Church. But, there’s everything wrong with them staying unbelievers.
So many who sit in the pews think that because they believe in God, they’re saved and safe. So, you believe in God, do you? Big deal.
The Pharisees believed in God and Jesus rhetorically asked them how they would escape the sentence of Hell (Matt. 23:33). James told his readers if that’s all they possessed then they had nothing more than the demons (James 2:19).
When you combine a reluctance from the pulpit to offend audiences about the truth of their sin with nothing more than a general acknowledgement from that crowd that God exists, you have everything needed for a false faith, false assurance, and a life that in no way will live out the teachings of Christ because, simply put, it lacks the power to do so (e.g. Rom. 8:7).
Instead of services that resemble a comfy group Youtube session, the Church needs straightforward teaching that speaks the truth in love about sin in a way that makes an unbeliever’s conscience and soul uncomfortable to the point where they seek help. Only then will the unbeliever in the pew become a true Christian and start exhibiting the fruit and changed life that confirms a true conversion has taken place (James 2).
Lately I’ve noticed a very bad trend in my own life. When frustrated or angered, in the heat of the moment, I’ve started to let foul language fly.
This hasn’t been something with which I’ve ever really wrestled, and it’s bothered me greatly because Jesus said: “the mouth speaks that which fills the heart” (Luke 6:45). After some contemplation, I think I know what’s going on.
My wife and I have been consistently streaming various drama series that, while containing good story lines and acting, are overloaded with bad language. I’m convinced my new problem with expletives is related to that which I’ve been constantly letting in my ear-gate.
The battle with our fallen nature is real. Paul confirms this when he says, “For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please” (Gal. 5:17). Ingesting a constant, bad diet through the eyes, ears, wrong relationships and actions will result in ungodly habits forming, just like the old Church proverb says:
Two natures beat within my breast
The one is foul, the one is blessed
The one I love, the one I hate.
The one I feed will dominate.
This is why we’re told: “sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it” (Gen. 4:7). Disregarding this truth and immersing oneself in the world is a recipe for disaster where Christlikeness is concerned.
Look how fast it happened to me.
The letters of Paul are full of admissions about the struggles with sin and our spiritual war. But let’s not forget that the same Paul who wrote those things also wrote:
Paul didn’t let the reality of Romans 7 keep him from pursuing the goal that is in front of you and me each morning: Christlikeness. In fact, Paul was so confident of his behavior that he exhorted others to mimic him.
Would you feel comfortable right now doing the same?
No, the Church isn’t perfect, but if we’re not careful, we’ll use that reality as a green-light to sluff off sin and before you know it, you’re a married youth pastor who makes sexual advances over the Internet to 19-year old girls.
And that’s one tragic place to be.
Robin Schumacher is an accomplished software executive and Christian apologist who has written many articles, authored and contributed to several Christian books, appeared on nationally syndicated radio programs, and presented at apologetic events. He holds a BS in Business, Master's in Christian apologetics and a Ph.D. in New Testament. His latest book is, A Confident Faith: Winning people to Christ with the apologetics of the Apostle Paul.
Nowhere ever did Paul ever suggest, imply, or condone the thinking that now that we are saved by grace through faith that it’s a license to sin.
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Paul may want to argue that salvation purely through grace is no licence to sin, but it’s like communism. It sounds good in theory, but when you put it into practice, it’s defects become obvious.
Nonsense.
God declares us perfect when we turn to Christ and are born again by His Spirit.
We are then judicially pardoned of our sin and presented before Him as sinless as Christ.
Hebrews 10:10-14 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
There are numerous examples of non-Catholics who do the same
Now as to Bishop's specific case -- that is NOT a strawman - he did not say you were doing it but that "some Christians were" -- and this is a historic fact that there HAVE been Christians like this - not only in the Calvinist tradition (and note that Bishop does not narrow it to Calvinists) - I can point out Rasputin had the same views
It is easy to take this to an extreme
Now, you who hold to sola fide ONLY say "that's projection", but then turn around and say "Theotokos" - Mother of God is also taken to extremes
Now the truth is that people can take it to extremes - as religious matters are never simple
I'm surprised you quoted that; considering
Pope Francis Blasts Traditional Catholics During Visit to Romania
That's not the impression I get from reading your posts...
I have never, ever heard of any Catholic giving a testimony of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior...In fact, I have asked many Catholics if that was their position and every time the response was, 'I was baptized Catholic (as a baby)'...I've never seen a pope or priest teach such a thing...
So you're telling us then that YOU repented of all your sins and then turned to Jesus and ask him to be your Savior??? And no unrepentant sins since then???
I will make the bold statement that there has never been a Catholic who has ever lived that did not have any unrepentant sins...As for the rest of us, I thank Jesus for his sacrifice...
Thread-hopping again, are we?
Same answer as before. By repeatedly using strawman arguments, you have shown that you are unwilling or unable to converse in good faith, and as such are not worth engaging with.
Get lost.
So why would you chose James over Paul???
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From past experience, most Catholics do so because James has a single verse that matches what Catholics have already decided is true.
And then completely ignore the bits of James that contradict Catholicism.
Looks like someone got undet your skin, Cronos. LOL.
Please show me anything I’ve said which contradicts it.
At least we finally having a Catholic admitting that they reject the inspired Word of God outright.
Yeesh...
Well I'm glad you admit that...Paul's teaching sounds morally repugnant to you so you chose to disbelieve Paul...
You figure Paul lied when he said that he wrote down what Jesus taught him???
Let me ask you this...Why do you involve yourself in Bible conversations when you don't even believe what it says??? Is that to convince other Catholics to distrust the scriptures??? And obviously your Church feels the same way about the bible so why did they include those unbelievable scriptures into its own version of the bible???
We don't get that much honesty too often, do we???
Well I’m glad you admit that...Paul’s teaching sounds morally repugnant to you so you chose to disbelieve Paul...
You figure Paul lied when he said that he wrote down what Jesus taught him???
Let me ask you this...Why do you involve yourself in Bible conversations when you don’t even believe what it says???
Is that to convince other Catholics to distrust the scriptures??? And obviously your Church feels the same way about the bible so why did they include those unbelievable scriptures into its own version of the bible???
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1) Paul must be viewed within the coherence of the other Christian writers/Apostles. Protestants have the tendency to focus on Paul so much that one wonders if they actually preach the Gospel of Paul instead.
2) Paul didn’t “write down what Jesus said”. He’s not like Muhammad who supposedly dictated the literal words directly from God’s mouth. We was inspired to write down what he wrote. That does not mean it is the literal Word of God spoken directly from the mouth of Jesus (or the Father).
3) I do believe the essentials of the Christian Faith revealed to the Apostles and handed down to us today. Paul is part of that Revelation and so is the Bible.
4) Those scriptures are included in the Bible because that is what they (The Apostles and their immediate heirs) wrote. There are slightly different versions of various Gospels and Letters, but they are relatively minor, which is to say that there is a huge (almost total) amount of agreement from Latin to Byzantine (Greek) texts. The bottom line is that the formation of scriptures into an authoritative source took place within an Apostolic Tradition which itself drew authority via guidance from the Holy Spirit. That Apostolic Tradition precedes New Testament Scripture and even presupposes it.
From past experience, most Catholics do so because James has a single verse that matches what Catholics have already decided is true.
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James has way more than one verse that challenges Paul’s view of Justification by Faith alone. You might want to re-read James someday.
Your comment: “There aren’t...It’s all in your mind... “
You can deny the truth, but that doesn’t make your opinion true.
Your comment:”We know what God’s will is...It is to believe on the name of Jesus Christ and be saved...As far as the church instruction manual is concerned, we have that too...It’s called the Bible... “
If we desire union with God and holiness above all else, then we will accomplish his will, even with our failings and mistakes. Knowing God and Loving God and our neighbor is always the way to fulfill God’s will!
If you really knew God’s will, then why do Protestants reject God’s Truth in the Bible?
1. Protestants reject Christ’s Catholic Church through the heresy of Luther, Calvin and others. (Matthew 16:18-19)
2. Protestants reject Christ biblical established Sacraments that were given to us with graces for our salvation: Baptism (some accept), Eucharist, Confession, Confirmation, Matrimony, Holy Orders, Anointing of the Sick.
3. Protestants reject Christ’s authority given to the Catholic Church to interpret the Bible.(Luke 10:16)
4. Protestants reject Christ’s authorized representative on earth. (Matthew 16:18-19)
5. Protestants Denial of Sacred Traditions. (1 Cor 11:2)
6. Protestants Rejection of 7 inspired books of the Old Testament based on one man Luther. Luther attempted to remove 4 books of the New Testament(Hebrews, James, Jude and Revelations).
7. Protestants Rejection of Purgatory for our sanctification(Rev 21:27; 1 Cor 3:13-15; 2 Macc 12:44-45)
8.The Sacrifice of the Mass and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. (Luke 22:19; 1Cor 10:16;1 Cor 11:26)
9. Faith and Works. “so faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.” (James 2:17) ( Rom 2:13; Heb 10:26-27; Jas 2:14: Jas 2:18-20; Jas 2:24;Rom 2:6-8; Luke 6:46; Matt7:21)
The protestant authority is absent, so every individual can interpret the Bible based on their fallible opinion. Accordingly, there will be significant difference in opinions. and thus many different versions of protestant belief.
There is a false protestant promise that all future sins are forgiven.
The Our Father prayer to God states “ And forgive us our trespasses As we forgive those who trespass against you:”
“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will forgive you; but if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.” Matt 6:14-15 Also read Heb 4:16 and Heb 10:26-27
If one rejects God’s Truth, then they reject God and perhaps commit mortal sin that jeopardizes salvation. “How much worse the punishment do you think will be deserved by man who has spurned the Son of god, and profaned the blood of the covenant, by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?”
Jesus is not happy with those that follow the ways of the world, and moreso with partial believers and lukewarm Catholics.
“Having purified your souls by your obedience to the truth for a sincere love of the brethren, love one another from the heart,”
James has way more than one verse that challenges Paul’s view of Justification by Faith alone.
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Are you calling the Apostle Paul a heretic then?
Because it sounds like you’re calling the Apostle Paul a heretic.
Are you?
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