Posted on 05/01/2020 7:25:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
You mean it is not correct to lump together “Charismatics” and “Pentecostals”?
Either way the problem is the validation provided by the tongues experience. When a person of extremely bad moral character, or one who holds to heretical doctrines, “speaks in tongues” how can you escape the conclusion that the “Holy Spirit” cares nothing about either of those things.
I remember the commitment to “holiness” held by members of the Pentecostal Holiness denomination when I was a boy. But as the Charismatic “wave” went through at the end of the “Jesus People” revival, circa 1972, I did not know anyone who would dare to make any such distinction as you suggest.
Doctrinal apostasy is no barrier to tongues.
Sexual unholiness is no barrier to tongues.
Furthermore the “miracle healings” performed by apostate evangelists would provide the same validation, and by the same thing, there is no doctrinal or moral barrier to the miracle of interpretation of tongues. If apostasy and unholiness is so unimportant to the Spirit, why bring it up? Why make a distinction between Pentecostals and charismatics?
I understand that under a certain theology system, someone could be saved and lost and saved and lost multiple times in any time period and this idea would obviate my question, since one would only need to conclude that while Jimmy Swaggart is with the prostitute, he is lost, but he gets re-saved in time to speak in tongues and perform miracles of healing.
Amen!
P&Cs trust their feelings more than the Word.
Some do, but many of us know and practice that what we feel or hear or say, MUST line up with the Word of God, or it is totally false. We recently left a small independent Pentecostal church, in which the pastor, a gifted preacher, kept telling us, “The LORD told me such and such”, then the next week, “The LORD told me, instead, this or that”, revising the message the LORD gave, on the same subject, over and over. Obviously, God doesn’t change His mind on the same subject, repeatedly. And “amazingly”, these messages from the LORD always lined up with the pastor’s desires. We, and others, finally had enough, and we, and the Associate pastor left, and are in the midst of purchasing a little church building, and are having “house church”, right now. Our new pastor won’t believe ANYTHING if it can’t be backed up by the Word, and that’s just exactly how it should be. We pray for our former pastor, but it was becoming abundantly clear that that person could NOT have been hearing from the LORD. Now THAT church has not enough members to keep the doors open. We pray that the LORD will be merciful, and reveal to that pastor the errors that were committed, and get rid of the stiff necked attitude.
And BTW, we are NOT the type of Pentecostals that require women to dress as if we were living in Colonial times, and not be allowed to cut our hair, etc., only that anyone, man or woman, dress modestly, without body parts hanging out, as we have seen some Christians do. If someone new comes, and has purple hair or a pierced nose, or revealing clothing, we will welcome them and treat them with love, and let the LORD reveal His will to them. We ladies wear slacks if we like, makeup, jewelry, or dye our hair if we like, as long as we’re modest. God looks on the heart, and always has, but such things have often been frowned upon in Pentecostal circles, and still are in some places. That’s between them and God. Our job is to show the love of the LORD, and preach His Word, so that the sinner can be saved, and do great and mighty works for the LORD.
I don’t blame you for your cynicism. Just remember to keep your eyes on Jesus and his Word. Do not pin your beliefs on man; people are flawed, including Christians. The main difference is that we have forgiveness, if we repent when we sin. It is possible for God to use a person who has sinned greatly, and repented and received forgiveness. Many times their testimony to that fact of where the LORD has brought them from, is a powerful tool for the LORD. As far as interpretation of tongues is concerned, it must line up with the Word of God. In the mouth of two or three witnesses is the truth found. The Word is the most important witness.
I do know for a fact that many of the friends I grew up with in my 20’s have had all their kids reject Christian thinking.
It wasn’t the thinking which did it.
It was the constant going to church and church events that did it.
Many of these friends went to church or events 3 times a week.
They had zero friends outside of Christianity.
I had pastors who told me I should go to college to become a pastor.
I told them they were nuts and went back to school for electronics.
I was successful.
Most of the others were not successful.
Yeah, liberal christians are crafting another Yeshua.
Praise God!
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Pentecostals are the original, Charismatics came along much later.
Pentecostals date back to Topeka, Kansas at the turn of the 20th century, to the first ones who received the baptism of the Spirit. And from there to the Azusa Street Apostolic Mission in Los Angeles, when a non-stop Pentecostal revival ensued. From there it went global.
Some of the organizations that came out of those days were The Assembly of God, The United Pentecostal Church, The Church of God, The Pentecostal Holiness Church. All of them held to strong holiness convictions.
The Charismatic movement are very different, arising some 50 years later thought the old line Pentecostals too straight-laced and strict, they opted for a watered down compromise with the Baptists, Methodists, etc.
Sad to say, those of the old line Pentecostals who still stress “holiness” and separation from the world, are few and far between. The United Pentecostals are one of the few groups left that still stress holiness of life.
ANY decent Statistics 1 course will tell you, without doubt, that polls and surveys are the LEAST reliable means of discovering opinions.
There are a variety of reasons but I can't remember them--been too long since that Stat 1 class.
Pentecostals who seek for the signs of the Spirit must be careful. There are other spirits out there besides the Holy one.
This is a big deal. Jeremy Riddle is one of the marquee names in the worship crowd at Bethel. Very influential guy, in that respect. May his concern and awareness spread throughout his sphere of influence. The modern "praise and worship" movement is largely devoid of any content that might harsh one's Holy Spirit buzz; it's encouraging to see one of the more prominent voices in the movement raise these concerns.
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