Posted on 12/27/2019 4:31:57 PM PST by ebb tide
ROME (ChurchMilitant) - The rise of Catholic traditionalism in Latin America, rooted in the Latin Mass, is rapidly reversing the long march of progressivism and Protestantism.
"We see that traditionally oriented churches and seminaries are increasingly full, especially with young people, while those of progressive orientation, increasingly empty," Juan Migel Montes, director of Tradition, Family and Property (TFP), Rome, told Church Militant.
"Catholic traditionalism is back in fashion," an upbeat Montes said. "This explains the defeat the Left is suffering in ballot boxes everywhere as the social, political and cultural realities linked to a traditional idea of Catholicism are multiplying everywhere."
"In Rome, as in the main South American dioceses of Rio, São Paolo, Buenos Aires, Bogota, Lima and Santiago, Masses in the Vetus Ordo [Old Rite] are mushrooming," he said. "They are teeming with boys and girls and young families. They do not come across to me as sour people or, according to a certain caricature." Montes was alluding to Pope Francis' Christmas address to the Curia, in which many believed he decried traditionalist Catholics as "rigid" and "unbalanced."
Traditionally oriented churches are increasingly full, especially with young people, while those of progressive orientation are increasingly empty.Tweet
"On the contrary, I see them as very enthusiastic and very eager to expand their range of influence among their peers. In fact, I continually see new faces in religious ceremonies. This motivates me to hope well for the future," Montes added.
The Rome bureau chief of TFP, an organization founded by Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira in Brazil in 1960, attributed the leftists' political defeats and some resulting violence and unlawfulness — as has occurred in Venezuela — to the "undoubted growth of traditionalist Catholicism in South America, especially among young people."
A Tridentine rite parish in Belem, Brazil
In a frontpage article with the Italian newspaper Il Giornale, Montes elaborated on the spurt in the Catholic traditionalist movement:
Right-leaning blogs are multiplying, animated by young and very young people, with millions of followers. New political and cultural groups of conservative orientation are arising. Online conferences of traditionalist orientation are gaining notoriety. Stores of modest clothing are spreading, in open contrast to today's immoral or extravagant fashions. After decades of virtual cultural monopoly of the Left, more and more books are being published and more and more conferences in the center-right area are being held. Sometimes the phenomenon can even be dazzling. For example, polls show 37% of Brazilians in favor of the restoration of the Brazilian monarchy.
Church Militant asked if the Amazon Synod might actually provoke an even greater growth of traditional Catholicism. Montes said that, ironically, the advance of progressivism in the Church — as seen in the so-called "Indian theology" that bears a marxist footprint and undergirded veneration of Pachamama idols — is serving to open the eyes of many people to the depth of the crisis in the Church.
Montes, in fact, attributes the ascendancy of Protestantism to a long history of "preaching from the pulpits, with different accents, of liberation theology. The re-emergence of traditionalism among the faithful," he said, is likely the "result of the 'unintended consequences of intentional actions,' which ordinary people mock with the expression 'the devil makes pots but not lids.'"
Montes also noted that in one of Pope Benedict XVI's trips to Brazil, the pontiff explicitly identified the sociological turn of preaching in the Catholic Church — specifically liberation theology — as the reason why countless Catholics defected to neo-Protestantism. Montes quoted TIME magazine: "The Catholic Church has made the option for the poor, and the poor have made the option for the evangelicals and the pentecostals."
This phenomenon does not occur in traditionalist Catholic circles, where evangelization adheres to the precept of Our Lord to "seek first the kingdom of Heaven and all these things shall be granted unto you," Montes explained. Despite having differing "liturgical sensitivity," he said numerous groups within the Church today "move decisively toward the search for tradition" in every field of life:
Procession with the Blessed Sacrament
[In] the life of piety they practice traditional devotions, especially the Marian one, and are not afraid of introducing themselves for what they are, conservative Catholics, even in the way they dress. In politics, they are increasingly demanding from candidates ... the non-negotiable principles preached by Benedict XVI, that is, the defense of life from conception to natural death, the family founded on the union of two people of different sex and the inviolable right of parents to choose education for their children.
Faithful Catholics can correct the drift occurring within the Church, Montes emphasized, through "forms of devotion, prayer and Catholic witness, in harmony with the traditional Magisterium of the Church — forms that were gradually abandoned and sometimes explicitly denied."
In September, Bp. José Luis Azcona, bishop emeritus of the Marajó Prelature in the Amazon area of Belém do Pará, Brazil, sounded the alarm: "The Amazon, at least the Brazilian part of it, is no longer Catholic," because it has a Pentecostal majority that, in some regions, "reaches 80%."
"Under the pretext of 'intercultural dialogue,' Catholic missionaries no longer evangelize or baptize," he lamented. "However, evangelicals do evangelize and work very hard indeed. While Catholic missionaries talk to Indians about 'deforestation,' 'climate change' and 'integral ecology,' Protestant pastors visit their communities with Bible in hand."
Gabriel Klautau Miléo, creator of the Salve Roma website, confirms the recoveries made by Catholic traditionalism. On Twitter, he posts pictures of Latin Mass churches filled with young people.
"All the photos ... were taken in Belém do Pará, one of the main urban centers of the Amazon region," he writes. "Several friends of mine and their families have returned to Catholicism by [re-]discovering the traditional rite of the Church."
"This is what the Amazon really needs," he notes. "We already have the apostolate of the Tridentine Mass in the two main urban centers of the Brazilian Amazon [Belém and Manaus] and in a city in the interior of the state of Pará [Santarém]."
Archbishop Alberto Taveira Correa, who heads the archdiocese of Belém do Pará, confirms that in his 10 years as archbishop, he can testify to the "growth in vocations" in his own diocese and others.
The Amazon, at least the Brazilian part of it, is no longer Catholic because it has a Pentecostal majority that, in some regions, reaches 80%. Tweet
Brazil's traditionalist Catholic Instituto Bom Pastor (Good Shepherd Institute) is also reporting a boom in vocations, as its "members want to exercise the priesthood in the doctrinal and liturgical Tradition of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, faithful to the infallible Magisterium of the Church with the exclusive use of the Gregorian liturgy in the worthy celebration of the Holy Mysteries."
Montes agrees it is impossible to predict the immediate future. "However, the rise of a mighty movement in traditional Catholic public opinion allows us to have many hopes," he affirms. "These hopes are also based on the promises of Our Lady who, in Fatima, proclaimed the triumph of her Immaculate Heart, after a period of tribulation."
“ No, you’re talking about a pastiche of Bible verses taken out of context and stitched together and/or reinterpreted according to various Protestant “influencers”.
Actually, no. I’m a seminary graduate.
You are completely missing my point here. Peter and the 11 were given miracles, signs, and wonders as part of their Great Commission, the Gospel of the Kingdom they were charged with. They spoke. They wrote. Their actions and words concerned Christ’s life on this earth up to the point He was received out of their sight (The Resurrection, Acts Chapter 1.) Their message concerned what CHRIST formed when He was walking among men. A Kingdom of believers who were formed because they accepted Christ as their promised Messiah, to rule and reign from Jerusalem, whereby salvation would then be sent to the gentiles. The Law.
There was another Apostle, Paul, that was called, saved and sent AFTER Christ was resurrected. HIS message and commission concerned Christ AFTER His Resurrection; what things He continued to do AFTER He was Resurrected. These things were imparted to HIM by DIRECT visions and revelations from the risen Christ. Paul spoke and wrote these things diwn, AS THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVED HIM, JUST AS THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVED THOSE WHO WROTE THE OTHER BOOKS OF THE NT. Paul’s message concerned what Christ was doing from Heaven- forming a Body of believers, made up of those saved by the Finished Work of Christ on their behalf. Based on nothing but faith and GRACE. Without the LAW. Paul performed God given signs and miracles, also. As a SIGN that he was indeed sent by God. Peter and the rest of the Apostles were weary of him at first. I’m sure you’ve read in one of Peter’s Letters that some of the things Paul wrote were “hard to understand”.
I’m saying all this because while these outward shows were going on they were also writing to their followers, writing of these things.
Peter and the 11 wrote concerning Christ’s life while He was on Earth. Paul wrote of Christ’s resurrected life since He’s been in Heaven.
If your church focuses on His earthly ministry and a Kingdom message, you are only following just one half of His life. He has ANOTHER life after His Resurrection. You will find out all about that in Romans through Philemon.
You should have simply answered, “No, I don’t.”
One more thing: Christ is not through with His Kingdom message. It has been temporarily set aside while He is forming the Body of Christ. That is what Romans through Philemon is all about. Once the Body is complete we will be removed at the Rapture at which time the Kingdom message will begin again until it’s fruition, at the Second Coming of Christ. That is what the Old Testament and Hebrews through Revelation are all about.
If Christianity began with a book (as Mosaic Law began with the receipt of the Ten Commandments or Mormonism began with the Book of Mormon, for example), then those that stake everything on that book would a) be correct to do so, and b) be correct in calling out those who saw the book as one of three sources of authority.
But because Christianity didn't begin with a book (but with a God-Man who instituted a church and then appointed one of His followers as its leader), and because the Book that Christians refer to as a pillar of authority came out several decades after the God-Man left this earth, we know that the Book simply cannot be the only source of authority, unless we believe that all who lived and died during the time after the God-Man left and before the Book appeared were all damned, and for nothing more than not having had access to this very important Book.
So our only other option is to consider that while the Book may be Very Important, there may be other means of passing on the very critical information we need to save our souls.
The hurdle that the Sola Scriptura folks cannot overcome is this period of time when Christians passed on the Faith to their offspring and to others without the benefit of the Bible. (It's a matter of logic: If you tell me you cannot know everything about a subject without having a manual and I tell you that I am in the process of writing the manual and I will simply teach you everything that the manual confirms by using both written and verbal communication, then the manual simply isn't the only means available of passing on information.)
You provide examples of the Church passing on the Faith through the Magisterium (one of the pillars of authority that the Catholic Church recognizes), but you don't call it that. These men were teaching the Faith through writings as well as through locution; the Bible hadn't even been written. (That they often performed signs and wonders doesn't add or detract from their authority to teach.)
...so what men are performing miracles, signs and wonders today that you might KNOW their writings are God given? And you are saying that He is using men today to expand His word? For what reason? The book of Revelation COMPLETES His message to man. Nothing shall be added or taken away from these words. The only people who add or subtract from them end up in apostasy with libraries FULL of traditions and Doctrines OF MEN. Not God.
great news..
But that doesn't mean we aren't sifting through an awful lot of information that doesn't become clearer over time, or that we don't need help understanding it. (The early Church believed that the return of the Messiah was imminent, for example. 2,000 years later, we know that this isn't so.). More importantly, it doesn't trump the two pillars of authority that existed for some time before the Bible even came about.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, for example, is not specifically stated in the Bible. However, for centuries Catholics believed this to be true simply because Mary was to carry God Himself in her womb, and because God Who made everything could easily do this.
So in 1854, Peter's successor Pope Pius IX declares the dogma of the Immaculate Conception; we are required under pain of sin to believe this teaching.
Fast forward 4 years to 1858, and a peasant girl in France gets a visit from a beautiful woman who appears to her in a nearby grotto and who asks her to have the parish priest build a chapel at that location; Bernadette Soubirous, however, does not know the woman's name. When pressed by the priest for an answer, she finally comes back with the answer that the woman identified herself as the "Immaculate Conception". (Bernadette didn't know what the words meant.). And then the miracles began, with people healed in the waters of the grotto.
Fast forward to the Second World War and a German Jew named Franz Werfel who escaped to France and who spent several weeks at Lourdes while awaiting passage to America became quite familiar with the story of young Bernadette; he made a vow that if he ever escaped the Nazis, he would tell the story of the visit of Mary to young Bernadette, and the miracles that followed. (Das Lied der Bernadette was translated into "The Song of Bernadette" and made into an award-winning movie in 1943.
So miracles aren't limited to the time of the early Church.
And herein lies the problem, Captain. Each and every example you gave was extra-biblical. Created by men. And made into traditions and doctrines of men. And given as NECESSARY to believe. As if God said these things happened and were necessary for man to believe. How do you prove that these were given by God? It’s just man’s word saying that is so. We cannot go to God’s word for confirmation on ANY of these things. Because they aren’t IN God’s word. So that leaves you having faith in man’s word. Not God’s word. And that, my friend, is the height of arrogance and APOSTASY.
I’m just curious. Do you believe in miracles? (Are those healed at Lourdes not really healed?)
I believe in miracles. I do NOT believe that men are given miraculous powers by God. There was a time and place for those. We’ve discussed that already- Peter and the eleven, Paul. Once His word was complete, there was no longer a need for miracles, signs and wonders through men. The Bible confirms His message and plan for mankind. It is complete.
God does answer prayer, according to His will. But if something does not comport to His completed word, the Bible, then it is not from Him. We are always to search the SCRIPTURES, to see if those things are so. Just like the Bereans. He does NOT leave us to guess ourselves through life OR to depend on fallen man to give us the answers to the questions we have
Some comments...
1. The "Book" Christians know is authoritative began long before Christ came to earth. 2/3 was written before that point.
2. The Apostles were alive during the completion of the completion of the NT Scriptures. It was widely known which books were inspired.
3. The Apostles carried authority as having been personally selected by Christ.
4. Solo Scriptura does not mean Christians do not recognize other authorities in the Church - the NT itself tells us to obey our church leaders, for example - ,but that all teaching must not contradict inspired Scripture, nor add to it.
Best.
Was the man who had sight restored to a damaged eye after rinsing it in the waters of the grotto the beneficiary of a miracle? (His doctor had previously told him that his sight in that eye was lost forever.)
I'm not talking about anything that happened 2000 years ago; I'm talking about something that takes place even to the present day.
What do you think it was that cured them? The water? Was the water magical? Is it magical today? To everyone who partake if it? Or only some people? Do the ones who are healed have more faith than the ones who are not healed?
Jesus healed them because of their faith.
the pilgrimage and washing with water is our human way to show that we have faith in Jesus when we request healing.
A lot of time, the healing in Lourdes is the peace in the soul of those who are not healed physically. The peace of Christ, who is present in their soul.
Not all suffering is physical: Spiritual and psychological suffering is worse, and indeed makes physical suffering worse.
Why some are healed but not others? A variation of why is there suffering, and why do good people suffer.
No easy answer: except to say Jesus suffered like us and is with us in our suffering, and that we can offer our sufferings as a prayer, and God will wipe our tears away in heaven.
one of my medical school professors told us that few doctors are pious, but few are atheists: because we see people who scientifically should have died, but live, but also people who should live but die despite all of our efforts. And if we didn’t have faith that there was a pattern or ultimate plan behind our lives, we would not be able to function.
So I think we’re both in agreement that God does heal. When it is His will, not our will. And He can will our healing anywhere, anytime. There are no magical waters or statues or candles or peopie that are vessels of healing. Is that correct? If so, then why are pilgrimages made to places like Lourdes for healing? Unless they believe the water is magical. Why do they send for holy water? Unless they believe the water is magical? Same thing with relics of the dead, Turin, etc.?
Are their cures miracles or not?
So you graduated from a Protestant propaganda mill. Big deal.
You really have nothing.
All you’ve done is make assertions, use logical fallacies, and avoid any proof, logic, or evidence.
Your call.
Back in fashion
Ok
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