Posted on 11/23/2019 12:17:53 PM PST by CondoleezzaProtege
All Abrahamic religions are based on identical humanistic values. As I said you’d easily find all the 10 commandments in Quran too. And I am not saying it as a Muslim apologist which I am anything but. You can’t change facts.
Is it a humanistic value to kill those that leave the religion? https://www.theguardian.com/global/2015/may/17/losing-their-religion-british-ex-muslims-non-believers-hidden-crisis-faith https://time.com/4534504/bangladesh-atheist-blogger-murder-arrest-nazimuddin-samad/
In my view the answer is no, and I assume that the Russian Orthodox Church has the same opinion.
If that is the case then the Orthodox Christianity and Islam are NOT based on identical humanistic values. QED.
Furthermore, the Quran has borrowed a lot of text from the Bible see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1277705/posts and the Bible has borrowed from the Hammurabi Code https://avalon.law.yale.edu/ancient/hamframe.asp
Ths means that there are a lot of common ideas in the texts.
Yep, Quran plagiarized Bible a lot.
As for “pecularities” of Islam see my post #59.
Orthodox clergy are among the biggest critics of Islam. It seems like Catholic Pope is in disagreement with them and so are many Protestants.
Killing apostates is certainly not a founding principle of any Abrahamic religion Islam included.
Last I checked Vsevolod Chaplin is a ROC clergy, even an Archpriest, and he is supporting Islamic banking system in Russia
https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2016/01/26/67183-171-my-znaem-chto-dumaet-bog-187
Killing apostates is certainly not a founding principle of any Abrahamic religion Islam included.
Now you are changing the definitions. I would go so far as to say that one of the original principles for the Islamic system is to get rid of their apostates/deserters.
For instance even today Saudi Arabia has criminal statutes making it illegal for a Muslim to change religion or to renounce Islam, which is defined as apostasy and punishable by death. KSA is not alone: Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Qatar, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen all have the same law.
In at least a further 7 countries, apostasy is punishable with a prison sentence: Bahrain, Brunei Darussalam, Comoros, Gambia, Iraq, Kuwait, Oman.
https://humanists.international/get-involved/resources/the-right-to-apostasy-in-the-world/
I might be wrong but think adultery is criminally illegal in some part of US too. That’s a similiar thing. In Russia adultery is only illegal in the Navy (or maybe not at this point) but that prompts nothing beyond disciplinary action.
That’s purely religious stuff within legal system.
As for Chaplin he is an excentric populist figure and not representative of all things Orthodox.
When it comes to Islam there is Dan Sysoyev who are on the opposite side.
Now I feel like you have appointed me the advocate of the devil but let’s play ths game further.
I personally believe Islam has no place in Europe or Americas but it makes perfect sense in Africa.
Just name some “semi-decent” African country and it is Islamic.
When you have universal poverty and 35 year life expectancy due to 40% HIV rate it makes perfect sense to chop hands and feet off thieves and carjackers and to stone adulterers or throw homosexuals off cliffs too.
It is a matter of human survival.
To all my fellow ‘freepers’
Christianity was NEVER meant to be a ‘religion’..!!!!
NEVER!!
You see, religion is simply a list of dos and dont’s and morals and ethics and philosophies so on and so forth…
Jesus Christ came to earth, lived a perfect life and died for our sins… On the third day he rose from the dead. If you were to visit his tomb today… You would find it empty!
So, what am I saying?
What am I saying is that Christianity is NOT a religion… It is a RELATIONSHIP! A relationship between a THE risen living Savior and you. The relationship is vibrant… Alive… Full of power… Full of clarity… Full of his light… Full of his healing.
.... If you have this kind of relationship with Jesus Christ… I rejoice with you!
… But if you don’t, it is honestly just one prayer away.
YES, its THAT SIMPLE!!
Simply close your eyes and ask your heavenly Father to forgive you of your sins in Jesus’s name… tell God that you can’t live without Him and his Son… and invite Christ into your life… it doesn’t take organ music playing… it doesn’t take some evangelist asking for an offering…it dosent take some ‘church’ giving their contrived blessing!!!
... all it takes is a humble heart... wanting to know the risen, living “personal Savior”....The Lord Jesus Christ
No “Church” can give HIM to you… and no church or man can take HIM away from you.
God loves you and wants a personal relationship with you…
He proved… Yes PROVED his love for you ...HOW?? ...while you were still drowning in your sins he sent his only son to die for you!!...
...Think of it… you’re SINS… All of them… Jesus Christ took them upon himself… yes! Every single sin .....that you think you’ve done in secret… HE knows about… Christ opened his arms and God His Father POURED EVERY ONE OF YOUR SINS ON HIS SON!!!
...and JESUS, he reached out… And took them on his own body while he hung on the cross… those huge nails were meant for you… you were the one meant to hang on that cross… but now… because of God’s great love… and because Jesus Christ hung and died and bled for you and I… we can have relationship eternally with God the father.
Why?? ....because he loves us!.....when you stand before the throne one day in eternity and you are judged by God the Father… You will stand there alone… but, you can have an advocate…who will be with you then,,,, And you can know that Advocate Jesus Christ right now! All you have to do is ask.
Much love to you.
The Hadiths are a big part of Islam and they show killing apostates is what should be done SEE:
https://www.bing.com/search?q=punishment+for+apostasy+in+islam&FORM=QSRE1
Bukhari’s Hadith Collection
Bukhari, volume 9, #17
"Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims."
Bukhari, volume 9, #57
Narrated Ikrima, "Some atheists were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, "If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah's messenger forbade it, saying, "Do not punish anybody with Allah's punishment (fire)." I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Messenger, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."
Bukhari, volume 9, #58
Narrated Abu Burda, "Abu Musa said.....Behold there was a fettered man beside Abu Musa. Muadh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Musa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Musa requested Muadh to sit down but Muadh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and his messenger," and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers .....
Please keep on track, adultery is not related to this.
Sure Chaplin has some odd ideas as can be seen here https://vk.com/id352520495
I guess that you are referring to Daniel Sysoev that was killed in 2009 and had a dispute with the Old Believers ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2,_%D0%94%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B8%D0%BB_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87 He was not an ROC authority either.
The rant about Africa is off topic.
What is discussed is if Orthodox Christianity and Islam are based on identical humanistic values.
Africa is relevant because Orthodoxy is often described as something backward. Islam is undisputedly backward. The example was to portray that the brutality of Islam somehow has humanistic values behind it although these values protected in un-Christian way.
Adultery is perfectly relevant as well for the very same reason.
The Commandments of God to the Hebrews involve stoning for certain crimes. The only issue is who has the power to do so under the laws of the land. Islam does have such authority in some places.
Wrong guy. The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, Putin’s a member of the Russian Orthodox Church (and probably the Soviet-infiltrated wing at that).
And I’m not fond of Francis either, not when he’s making it more of a Communist mouthpiece in explicit contradiction to God’s own teachings.
“Islam is fundamentally different from Christianity and Judaism because it commands the killing of unbelievers for all time.”
Christianity, sure. Can’t say the same about Judaism, though, certainly not the one that utilizes the Talmud as their book of religion. If you read that, let me put it this way, it’s basically the same as the Quran, only replace “kill, cheat, and lie to non-believers” with “kill, cheat, and lie to goyem.”
Heck, in some respects, Talmudic Judaism is even WORSE than Islam. For one thing, Islam at least has enough respect for its deity to freely acknowledge that said deity is firmly in charge and that everyone, including themselves, are weak before it, while Talmudic Judaism reduced God the Father, the guy responsible for getting their sorry butts out of Egypt to being a weak idiot who is literally restrained by mortals, whether they be Rabbis or not, to the extent that he can’t do anything without a majority vote by the Rabbinic council, not to mention pretty much creaming God in a debate despite the latter being all-knowing and vastly superior to mortals in every way. Personally, I find that even MORE contemptuous than the bit about the Virgin Mary being a harlot who sired Jesus with a Centurion, or Jesus boiling in hot excrement.
Note that I didn’t say ALL Jews were like this, just those who follow the Talmud. The ones who follow the Torah (and by that, I mean the WRITTEN Torah, not the ORAL Torah, the latter’s the Talmud) are tolerable.
While it’s not by much, at least he didn’t compare Christianity to Leninist thought. That if you ask me was FAR worse. At least Islam had certain doctrinal similarities to Christianity such as some of the ten commandments, while Marxist-Leninism tried to eschew the Ten Commandments altogether.
Still, all the more reason to view Putin as nothing more than a slimeball no different from the likes of Stalin.
If it’s not a religion, why does it still retain the Ten Commandments? Why does it still retain the Book of Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Heck, why is the Bible ITSELF retained as well? Besides, even the New Testament has SEVERAL DOS and DON’TS, including explicit exclusions of certain people from Heaven due to their actions, and these were decreed by Jesus’s own apostles, if not Jesus himself. Don’t believe me? Here’s a passage:
“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.” I Corinthians 6:9
Last I checked, that’s the very definition of “dos and don’ts”
bump
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