November 10 - John Likened to Elijah

Grace to You.org ^ | 2008 | John MacArthur, Grace Community Church

[Elsie]

Question: Why does “and it came to pass” appear so often in the Book of Mormon?

Another question: Why does so much of the KJ version of the bible appear so often in the Book of Mormon?

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We KNOW in came into being LONG after the Golden Plates® were supposedly inscribed.

[Elsie]

Do you have a reference I can check to see if there is any more truth in the version you repeat?

Did you lookup the reference that WAS given in my reply?

[Elsie]

Joseph Smith did not introduce such variety into the translation of the Book of Mormon.

I see.

Variety must have been saved for earlier stuff.

Version Number When Published Brief Description	Age/Year	Evil Power	Pillar of Light or Fire	Number of Personages	Father	Son	Question: Join What Sect	Remarks
Official Version,  Mormon scripture,  Pearl of Great Price p. 47, 48, 1974 Ed.	Age 14 1820	Yes	Yes Light	2	Yes	Yes	Join None	Lucy, Hyrum, Samuel, Sopronia Join Presbyterian Church 1820
Paper by Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons March, April 1842	Same as item 1 above
Letter from Joseph Smith to John Wentworth,  editor Chicago Democrat 1841 account Published March 1,1842	None given	No	No	2	?	?	No question, told all incorrect	Joseph Smith's First Vision by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix D. Ensign, Jan.1985, p. 16
				Both looked the Same They spoke
Dictated by Joseph Smith, in hand of  James Mulholland, 1838	Same as item 1 above, first known account of the official version.							Ensign,  Jan. 1985 p. 14
Joseph Smith's diary of 1835, Recorded by  Warren Cowdery  Nov. 9, 1835, conversation of Joseph Smith with Joshua	Joseph, about 14	No Tongue seemed swollen; heard someone; at first couldn't pray	Yes Fire	One, and then another like unto the first	?	?	No question, told sins are forgiven, Jesus Christ is the Son of God	Joseph Smith's First Vision  by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix B
				Second spoke.
				Saw many angels
Messenger & Advocate by Oliver Cowdery supervised by  Joseph Smith  Feb. 1835  p. 77-79;  Also see Dec. 1834 p. 43	Joseph 17 1823	No	Yes	1	No	No	No question told sin are forgiven	Note on pg. 78 that the revival was in 1823 (NOT 1820) so this must be the First Vision.
				Messenger from God
Dictated by Joseph Smith  to F. G. Williams Summer to Nov. 1832	Joseph 14 or 16	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told "None doeth good", sins forgiven	Joseph Smith's First Vision  by Milton V. Backman Jr. Bookcraft, Appendix A
				Saw Lord (Jesus) he "spoke"
Written by Joseph Smith, 1832 diary	Joseph 15	No	Yes	1	No	Yes	No question, told sins forgiven all do no good	Ensign,  Dec. 1984 pgs. 24-26  Jan. 1985 pg. 11
				Saw the Lord Jesus Christ (said He was crucified)
Early Church leaders  B. Young,  G. A. Smith,  J. Taylor	Joseph 15	No	No	1	No	No	Join None	Journal of Discourses, 2:171; 18:239; 13:77,78; 20:167; 12:333,334
				Saw an angel, and asked the angel

[Elsie]

As it turns out, however, this much-maligned phrase is actually evidence of the Book of Mormon’s authentic antiquity.

I'm sure that SHIZ would like a little bit of 'actual evidence' to back up HIS story; too.

When is SLC gonna dig into the hill called Cumorah?

Oh; wait.

That's NOT where the World's Largest Battle was fought; was it.

[Elsie]

(Sorry about the WLB thing.

I've just gotten back from a week in Branson and still coming down from billboard overload.)

[Elsie]

Replies #14 and 15 await your fine toothed comb.

[Elsie]

 https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Joseph_Smith/Polygamy/Plural_wives/Eliza_R._Snow/Emma_pushing_Eliza_down_the_stairs

 

For example, from an essay in BYU Studies he cites the Charles C. Rich version of a pregnant Eliza “heavy with child” being shoved down the stairs by a furious Emma. Nowhere does he tell the reader that these authors concluded that the story given the present evidence was untenable:

But where are we? Faced with a folk legend, with genuine documents that tell no tales, and dubious ones that contradict themselves and the contemporary accounts, perhaps it is best for us to respond as we must to many paradoxes of our history: consider thoughtfully and then place all the evidence carefully on the shelf, awaiting further documentation, or the Millennium, whichever should come first.^[1]

 

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But where are we?

A 'book' on gold plates; none of which are in evidence, tales thereon that cannot be documented, perhaps a person needs to collect whatever 'evidence' is available and weigh ALL of it; not just selected apologetic spin.

[Elsie]

Do you have a reference I can check to see if there is any more truth in the version you repeat?

OK...

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https://religionnews.com/2013/04/23/the-reinvention-of-mormon-emma-smith/

[Elsie]

Do you have a reference I can check to see if there is any more truth in the version you repeat?

The bible contains four seperate accounts of Jesus' time on Earth: the Gospels.

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2160&context=byusq

[fproy2222]

" Do you have a reference I can check to see if there is any more truth in the version you repeat?

OK..."

ELSIE; This is from your reference, the kind of fact you seem to like:

"including a much-debated stair-pushing catfight with Eliza R. Snow."

[fproy2222]

"Variety must have been saved for earlier stuff."

YOU JUST PROVED PAUL IS NOT A PROPHET AND APOSTLE

Please make up a chart like that one for Paul's vision and you will see how dumb the one you use for the First Vision is.

[Elsie]

Much debated is not the same as disproven

[Elsie]

I’ll let you make a chart

[fproy2222]

Elsie I see you do not care.