Posted on 10/23/2019 8:18:25 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Amen.
He is right. Ordaining women is a good sign a church is in its way to apostasy. We all have a role in Gods kingdom and no one is left out. However we are all called to different areas of service. Women are not to be pastors or elders
Conformity to Scripture in word and spirit:
This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. (1 Timothy 3:1-12)
Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity. Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine. (1 Timothy 4:12-13)
They must have a confirmed testimony of regeneration:
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. (1 Timothy 3:7)
When I call to remembrance the unfeigned faith that is in thee, which dwelt first in thy grandmother Lois, and thy mother Eunice; and I am persuaded that in thee also. (2 Timothy 1:5)
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. (Hebrews 6:9)
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; (1 Thessalonians 1:3)
They must be of good character, with right motives, meekness yet of strong faith, and who esteem hold brethren:
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; (Titus 1:7-8)
And himself must be teachable themselves by manifestly faithful men:
But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; (2 Timothy 3:14)
They must be sound in their beliefs and have evident gifts and ability relative to their call:
Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. (Titus 1:9)
The above does not mean perfection, but overall exceptional character, and soundness in non-negotiable aspects of beliefs, and manifesting objectivity and charity in areas in which there manifestly be a limited degree of disagreement (and a hierarchy of Truths must be recognized).
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace. (James 3:17-18)
And some calls require more of one qualification than others, such as patience for a pastor, and who needs to have a fatherly heart, whereas a evangelist must be able to move about and have a real burden for souls.
And I sadly come too short in many things.
Do we also forgive St. Paul?
Is there a place for women in the service of The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints?
Yes. We see SOME examples of that in the wards.
In Mormonism, so much has changed over the decades.
The world has seen BLACKS going from the scum of the earth to actual positions in the church; so Ladies; perhaps YOUR day will come, too.
The Living Prophet® may someday receive a change from GOD (he is the ONLY one authorized; you know) sent from the portals of Heaven (the HIGHEST one; of course) that YOUR staus will get elevated.
(At least you don't have to have a Take-a-number machine to determine which wife will get to sleep with the husband any more.)
Except for you Flds ladies.
Your men KNOW that polygamy is STILL the LAW - found in D&C 132.
I know SOMEONE who did NOT believe the Book as written and listened to a couple of unidentified Personages for his spiritual truth lesson(s)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
You correctly infer that my post #32 was facetious. I find MacArthur arrogant, abrupt, grouchy and abrasive. And, being Pentecostal, I fear for him when he trashes those of us who have experienced the Biblical second sovereign work of grace, AKA the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Call it what you will but don't call it "Strange Fire".
When the scribes, etc., trashed Jesus, saying He was casting out devils by the power of the devil, Jesus said, "I'll forgive anything but that." Now, opinions vary on what He meant; but to me it is inescapable that He was addressing men who knew they had a Man operating in the power of the Holy Spirit (as evidenced by Nicodemus' preface in John 3:1-2). The works of Jesus were unprecedented, obviously empowered from Heaven, not the devil, yet for their own narrow ecclesial purposes they felt they needed to gainsay His ministry.
I think Jesus was referencing the fact that these men knew better and thus were thus at least borderline guilty of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
MacArthur also knows better; and yet he (as you said) broadbrushes the entire phenomenon of Pentecostalism. This is very dangerous.
“AND began talking about God giving her personal instruction meant to be passed on to the church. Uh-oh.”
As I understand your comment, she is not authorized to receive guidance for the church because she is a woman.
Does God give men personal instructions that are to be passed on to the church?
“Does God give men personal instructions that are to be passed on to the church?”
Rarely.
Beth Moore wrote:
“Recently God spoke to me about capturing what He and I are calling “Sabbath moments.” Like many of yours, my schedule right now is particularly tough, and I see no time in the near future for a number of days off. God spoke to my heart one Saturday morning while I was preparing for Sunday school: “My child, in between more intense rests, I want to teach you to take Sabbath moments.” - Beth Moore, The Beloved Disciple
Really? God & Beth call taking a break sometimes “Sabbath Moments”? GOD calls them that? And God is using Beth to tell others to take what HE calls “Sabbath moments”?
Neither Peter nor Paul ever said “God & I are calling these things ‘XXX’.” And if GOD calls something XXX, then what Peter, Paul or Beth calls it is irrelevant. When someone quotes God, they’d better be mighty sure they get the quote accurate - AND that they are not taking their thoughts and calling them God’s.
If John MacArthur started saying, “God and I have decided the church needs what He & I call ‘Sabbath moments’”, I’d run away from John MacArthur as well. It goes beyond male or female.
But when a woman tries to take leadership in a church, acting in a role of authority over the church, she is wrong.
“And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.” - 1 Tim 2
I would never write those words, but I’m not an Apostle. Either the scripture is “God-breathed” or not. If it is, then we need to obey it even when it makes us uncomfortable. There is allowance for some cultural norms to play in, which is how the “Women can do anything a man can” folks interpret that passage. “It just applied back then”, they say. But notice how Paul supports his statement. That doesn’t sound like a cultural objection.
“I fear for him when he trashes those of us who have experienced the Biblical second sovereign work of grace, AKA the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Call it what you will but don’t call it “Strange Fire”. - Migraine
If someone has NOT been baptized in the Holy Spirit, they are not saved at all.
“There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” - Ephesians 4
“But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” - Romans 8
“For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.” - 1 Corinthians 12
The Holy Spirit is a person, not a sack of grain. He is either there, or not. You can yield more of your life to His control, but you cannot have more of the Holy Spirit. And if He is not in you, then you are not a Christian at all.
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit...” - Ephesians 1
If Pentacostals claim the baptism of the Holy Spirit is something Christians need to have as a second work of grace, after salvation, they are wrong and ARE looking for a strange fire.
Thank you for your reply
When I was very young, we went to a church which had a lady preacher. She had a wonderful way of reaching kids and teenagers. Her husband was the main minister. I often wonder what happened to them. They moved away a few years later.
““Does God give men personal instructions that are to be passed on to the church?”
Rarely.”
Rarely means that sometimes God will give one man instructions affecting other people.
How do you know who that man is?
Satan loves these doctrinal issues that bring out the worst in Christians and lead them to do his dirty work for him.
“How do you know who that man is?”
Never met one. I hate to rule it out, but I’ve never met one. As I said, if John MacArthur started talking that way, I’d turn and run. If my pastor said, “God and I were talking, and here is what he wants the church to do...”, we’d fire him. Every case I’ve seen to date, men or women talking like that were imposters.
So Mr Rogers, it appears you are saying that Pentacostalism is of the devil. Am I reading you correctly?
I think Satan loves folks ignoring what scripture says more.
I didn't say that. Do you assert that I did?
What DO you mean by “I fear for him when he trashes those of us who have experienced the Biblical second sovereign work of grace, AKA the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Call it what you will but don’t call it “Strange Fire”.”?
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