Posted on 09/17/2019 4:07:15 AM PDT by metmom
“When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus said to Him, ‘They have no wine.’ And Jesus said to her, ‘Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.’ His mother said to the servants, ‘Whatever He says to you, do it’” (John 2:3–5).
Returning to the wedding at Cana we come across a major crisis—the wine ran out because the supply was insufficient. This potential embarrassment for the couple and their families could have stigmatized them for the rest of their lives. Mary was apparently helping to oversee the catering of the celebration and became aware of this serious problem. She anxiously said to Jesus, “They have no wine.”
Jesus’ abrupt reply, “Woman, what does that have to do with us?” signaled a major change in their relationship. It was an idiomatic expression that asks rhetorically what the two parties in question have in common, and has the effect of distancing them. By calling Mary “Woman” (a polite, but not intimate, form of address) instead of “Mother,” Jesus politely but firmly informed her that their relationship was no longer to be what it had been while He was growing up. His public ministry had begun, and earthly relationships would not direct His actions. Mary was to relate to Him no longer as her son but as her Messiah, the Son of God, her Savior.
Undeterred by the mild rebuke, and aware that He was not saying no to the request, Mary said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” Mary shows us how we should respond to the Lord.
Ask Yourself
Is your relationship with Jesus such that you can receive His rebuke without taking offense or crawling into a corner? Can you respond to His truth—even a hard truth—by adjusting your life to His right way of thinking and then continuing to serve Him as faithfully as before?
Studying God’s Word ping
Hadn’t heard that particular perspective before.
There’s one religion where that would be blasphemy...
Would that be the one with twin holy cities in the Arabian peninsula?
Kind of blows that theory out of the water, that Mary was sinless. When I belonged to that other religion, which will remain unnamed, but you know what it was, I believed Mary was sinless, a perpetual virgin, and a demigoddess. I guess you could say, I believed a whole bunch of false ideas. How do people get caught up in false doctrine like this? 😁😆👍☝️🇵🇭 You might say, I was rescued from my own devices. 👍
Nor I, and upon a moment’s reflection see that it is spot on. I have to ponder it seriously now.
See this discussion. Not a Catholic website AFAIK.
W. Hall Harris (Dallas Theological Seminary) writes:
tiv ejmoiVV kaiV soiv, guvnai… (literally, “What to me and to you, woman?”) This phrase is a semiticism. The Hebrew expression in the Old Testament had two basic meanings:
(1) When one person was unjustly bothering another, the injured party could say “What to me and to you?” meaning, “What have I done to you that you should do this to me?” Examples: Judges 11:12, 2 Chr 35:21, 1 Kings 17:18.
(2) When someone was asked to get involved in a matter he felt was no business of his, he could say to the one asking him, “What to me and to you?” meaning, “That is your business, how am I involved?” Examples: 2 Kings 3:13, Hosea 14:8.
Meaning (1) implies hostility, meaning (2) merely disengagement. Meaning (2) is almost certainly to be understood here as better fitting the context (although some of the Greek Fathers took the remark as a rebuke to Mary; I feel such a rebuke is unlikely).
ou[pw h{kei hJ w{ra mou In the immediate context the meaning is clearly “It is not yet time for me to act.” But John uses w{ra with greater significance: see the following Note.
A Note on the Use of w{ra in the Gospel of John:
The word w{ra (literally, “hour”; NET “time”) occurs in the Gospel of John in 2:4, 4:21, 23; 5:25, 28, 29; 7:30; 8:20; 12:23, 27; 13:1; 16:25; and 17:1. It is best seen as a reference to the special period in Jesus’ life when he is to leave this world and return to the Father (13:1); the hour when the Son of man is glorified (17:1). This is accomplished through his suffering, death, resurrection (and ascension—though this is not emphasized by John). 7:30 and 8:20 imply that Jesus’ arrest and death are included. 12:23 and 17:1, referring to the glorification of the Son, imply that the resurrection and ascension are included as part of the “hour”. In 2:4 Jesus’ remark to his mother indicates that the time for this self-manifestation has not yet arrived; his identity as Messiah is not yet to be publicly revealed.
Nah, I’ll take the messenger of God (angel Gabriel) over some two-bit anti-Catholic preacher. Something about her being “full of grace”, so having that would mean she’s without sin.
You can believe Mary was sinless if you like. I certainly do not, and never will again. I did believe that when I was a catholic, but since I am an ex catholic, I gave it up forever. Now, I have assurance of salvation. I am sure a lot of people don’t, but look at my tagline.
Where did you get the idea full of grace means without sin? All believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and full of grace upon grace through Jesus Christ yet none of us is without sin. The grace is dependent on God not us being sinless.
Not in Greek. Not ever.
Mary was a fallen sinner, just like every other fallen sinner - meaning all humans, other than the Savior.
In fact, Mary called Christ her Savior. She needed one because of her fallen nature and her own sins.
She was "graced" to be the Jewish woman chosen to bear Messiah.
Scripture says she was "blessed among women" - not over other women.
Grace literally means undeserved kindness. Emphasis on undeserved.
Mary being full of grace literally means that she’s a sinner like the rest of us, because only sinners need grace.
Nah, I’ll take the messenger of God (angel Gabriel) over some two-bit anti-Catholic preacher. Something about her being “full of grace”, so having that would mean she’s without sin.
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How in the world does full of Grace mean sinless?
While there are several meanings of the word “Grace” none of them that I am aware of mean sinless.
To me the most common meaning of Grace to Christians of every variety is the gift from The Savior that allows us though sinful to enter into His presence. The Savior does not have to forgive us of our sin, He does it because He loves us. The Grace He offers to us is that He will take us back even though we are not sinless. That Grace includes Him having paid the painful price for our sins. His payment for our sin and His offering of His Grace are however conditional. We must be His. We must follow Him. We must repent of our sins and do all we can to stop our sinning. While many would disagree I think we must also be baptized in His name, must receive the Gift of The Holy Ghost and receive what most of us refer to as The Sacrament of The Lords Supper.
I am inclined to believe that doing those things requires receiving them from someone who has a right to give them, who knows how to give them. I do not believe that my drinking of bread and wine and then saying a prayer will suffice. Others think I’m wrong, that any Tom, Dick or Harry may offer these sacraments to me and they will be the same as any pastor or priest of any religion.
This is a problem. The savior left Peter as the first Apostle and gave to him the keys of the kingdom. I have been to a cathedral in Seville, Spain to seen the tomb of Columbus. His sarcophagus is carried by four statues one representing Peter, he has massive keys hanging from his belt. The Savior instructed Peter to perform this Sacrament of The Lords Supper often. Who decides what often means, who has the keys to do that. Can anyone who has felt The Holy Ghost move in him take it upon himself to do this?
If Priesthood means anything in the Catholic Church, then did Luther have it when he ordained others, do all protestant pastors have this priesthood?
These are interesting questions but are they important? Does it matter if I don’t take The Lords Supper? Does it matter if I’m not baptized by someone who knows what they are doing or even has any authority to do so other than his own belief that it is ok?
In the day of Jesus Christ there was a priesthood that Jesus Himself submitted to even though He called out the leaders of this priesthood as evil men. John the Baptist had a father that was a priest in The Temple, that means he was a Levite. John would have been ordained as a Levite by his father. Jesus submitted to the baptism of John who had authority to do what he was doing. If it didn’t make any difference He could have had one of His own followers baptize Him.
These are all interesting questions. The Catholic church has answers to these questions but just because someone has answers doesn’t make them right. The Lutheran Church has pretty much the same answers with some differences and again the Episcopal churches also have answers. It is good to have answers, it is best to have The answers if you can find them.
Jesus was the only perfect being to ever grace the earth with His presence as a human. Mary was a woman as addressed by the angel Gabriel but a woman in whom God found favor.
While Jesus tells us we should call no man good I think it fair to call Mary the mother of Jesus a good woman. I’m ok with calling her good, with calling her a saint but divine, I think not. She was not born of a virgin and her mother was also not born of a virgin. She was a woman of the earth albeit a woman with a royal heritage as a descendant of King David, definitely royal blood.
There is only one God to worship and Him in the name of His Son Jesus Christ.
Never said anything about worshiping Mary. Mary was greeted by Gabriel, the messenger of God, as “full of grace”. Who are you or anyone else on here to doubt God’s Word? If she is “full of grace”, then Her soul didn’t have the stain of sin, God deemed it so!
Never said anything about worshiping Mary. Mary was greeted by Gabriel, the messenger of God, as “full of grace”. Who are you or anyone else on here to doubt God’s Word? If she is “full of grace”, then Her soul didn’t have the stain of sin, God deemed it so!
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I never suggested anything about worshiping Mary. I must not have made myself very clear. Hopefully you too are full of Grace. Grace is that gift that The Savior gives to us despite the fact that we are imperfect sinners. It is Grace that allows us to be in the presence of God despite our sin. It was Grace that allowed Mary though imperfect to be in His presence and be impregnated by the Holy Ghost.
Full of Grace is something we should all strive for.
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