Posted on 09/03/2019 9:28:46 AM PDT by Salvation
Numerous surveys have documented the steady decline of religious belief in the U.S. and the rest of the Western world. The category of people known as “nones” consists of atheists, agnostics, and those who state that they are not affiliated with any particular religious denomination. There is little that unites them other than this lack of belief. In trying to bring others to the Catholic faith, we are not facing people with a single mindset but rather a bewildering and complex hodgepodge of stances and ideas; the “nones” disagree with one another as much as they do with us Catholics.
There is a simplistic perception that believers are losing ground to a united group of non-believers; this is not the case. We are losing ground, but to a host of disconnected groups/trends: atheists, agnostics, and the “spiritual but not religious,” as well as those who embrace Eastern religions, yoga, reiki, Wicca, Santeria, Wicca, Santa Muerte, and Satanism. There are also people who follow a syncretic religion, incorporating aspects of two or more different religions into a unique new one. The people we are trying to convert represent a mishmash of confusing and self-referential “movements,” some of which have a single member! Some who abandoned the Catholic faith did so in anger over a specific issue or teaching; others just drifted. Some oppose us intensely while others are merely indifferent. Almost nothing unites these groups except that none of them accept our faith.
This can be consoling, but it can also make our task more difficult. The consolation comes from the fact that is this not some strong, united force arrayed against us. If anyone in this non-believing “group” boasts, “We now outnumber you,” I would point out that there isn’t a lot of “we” going on in their supposed movement! Little if anything unites them besides unbelief.
Melanie McDonagh, writing in the Catholic Herald, describes a recent secular movement in England centered around the “Sunday Assembly.” In many ways this assembly mimics Sunday religious services: people sing songs, listen to a secular talk, and share coffee and fellowship afterwards. It turns out, though, that even this group is seeing a substantial decline in attendance. McDonagh writes,
Yet now, it would seem, the difficulties in maintaining attendance turn out to be common to believers and unbelievers alike. According to Faith Hill, writing in The Atlantic, “Sunday Assembly has reported a significant loss in total attendees over the past few years—from about 5,000 monthly attendees in 2016 to about 3,500 in 2018. … After a promising start, attendance declined, and nearly half the chapters have fizzled out ….” If it’s hard getting people to come to Mass when there’s the Body and Blood of Christ on offer, it must be far harder when you’ve got an unanchored community with nearly nothing in common. In fact, some Assembly members are agnostics and others are atheists, so even the absence of religion doesn’t mean unity.
So, it is not really a case of “us versus them.” Rather, it is more that we are against something no more cohesive than a morning mist as the sun rises.
While this may be consoling it also illustrates the difficulty of our response or strategy. Apologetics has always been multi-faceted: Catholic vs. Atheist, Catholic vs. Agnostic, Catholic vs. Mainline Protestant, Catholic vs. Evangelical, and so on. In the current quagmire of highly subjective denominations, the decline in belief resembles more a death by a thousand cuts. While certain commonalities may exist among the myriad varieties of unbelief and designer deities, it has become clear to me that the best thing we can do in response is to be the Church, clearly and unambiguously; we must be clear in our doctrine and identify ourselves as Catholics to others. St. Paul says,
We do not lose heart …. We do not practice deceit, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by open proclamation of the truth, we commend ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God (2 Cor 4:1-2).
What we certainly do not want to do is to follow the example of the mainline Protestant denominations, who have comprised nearly every doctrine and moral teaching to please the world rather than God. In the same article, Ms. McDonagh memorably describes some Protestant sects
… [they] slid from non-conformity to Unitarianism and eventually to mere political activism. Unitarianism, in fact, strikes me as the American way of doing agnosticism, or at least deism—a way of being religiously observant without having anything in particular to observe.
What could be more useless than to become the very thing we set out to convert? How can we convert the world by becoming the world? What distinguishes the Protestant denominations and their teachings on moral issues like sexuality, marriage, and the value of life? One might argue that they stand against greed and for social justice. Those are not controversial stands in the liberal West, which loves to trot out such things as a form of virtue signaling.
No, I think that the best and only way forward is being fully, faithfully, and joyfully Catholic. There is still a place for arguments and apologetics, but in the era of competitive atheism and consumerized belief, being “happy customers” of the Lord Jesus and insisting on no cheap substitutes or imitation brands is our best way forward. This may seem bold or hard in an age of never-ending scandal and disappointment with our leaders. However, those are examples of not being Catholic enough or of living in outright contradiction to the Catholic faith. Be Catholic, joyfully. St. Teresa of Calcutta is purported to have said, “Joy is a net of love in which you can catch souls.”
Yes. One is supported by Scripture the other is not.
“Supported” is irrelevant in your theology; “authorized” is.
For the Roman Catholic, though not the Christian, that's a mortal sin.
Now, I have been able to show where an officially approved version of the Bible for Roman Catholics (NABRE) has been shown to insert words to the text of Matthew 19:9. It is the only English version to render the passage in this manner.
I even posted an article from Msgr Pope where he made the claim the verse supported the insertion by the Greek. I showed the verse in question in Greek and demonstrated the Msgr's claim is false.
So, no. The insertion of the phrase, unless the marriage is unlawful, is not part of the Greek and is not supported by the text.
It may be authorized by Rome but that doesn't make it right.
There is a difference.
Prior to the age of the internet Roman Catholics might get away with such claims in discussions. No longer though.
You could, and probably should, revise your scorecard.
Having a pope who is actually Catholic and doesn’t spew his PERSONAL opinions on climate, immigration, death penalty, etc. would be a good start.
Okay ealgeone you know that
I wouldn't do this for anyone else
The One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Christ Jesus
, that built Christendom(western civilization.)
The Nicene Creed
I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.
+10 One God
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
+15 Christ Jesus
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
+ 1 Consubstantial with the Father
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
+ 1 For our salvation
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
+ 1 Virgin Birth
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
+10 Suffered, Died and Rose
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
+ 1 Ascended, Seated
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.
+10 Come Again in Glory to Judge
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
+10 Holy Trinity
I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
+10 One Visible Church
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
+ 1 One Baptism
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.
+10 Resurrection of the Dead
The Ten Commandments:
1. I am the LORD your God. You shall worship the Lord your God
and Him only shall you serve.
2. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
3. Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.
4. Honor your father and your mother.
5. You shall not murder.
6. You shall not commit adultery.
7. You shall not steal.
8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor's goods.
+10 The Ten Commandments
The Greatest Commandment
1. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy
whole soul, and with thy whole mind, and with thy whole strength
2. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
+ 2 The Greatest Commnadments
The Seven Sacraments Catholic Church:
1. Baptism.
2. Eucharist.
3. Confirmation.
4. Reconciliation.
5. Anointing of the sick.
6. Marriage.(XY+XX, Till death do us part)
7. Holy orders.
+ 7 The Seven Sacraments
The Precepts of the Catholic Church:
1. You shall attend Mass on Sundays and on holy days of obligation
and rest from servile labor.
2. You shall confess your sins at least once a year.
3. You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the
Easter season.
4. You shall observe the days of fasting and abstinence established by
the Church.
5. You shall help to provide for the needs of the Church.
+ 5 The Precepts
The seven chief corporal works of mercy:
1. To feed the hungry.
2. To give drink to the thirsty.
3. To clothe the naked.
4. To visit the imprisoned.
5. To shelter the homeless.
6. To visit the sick.
7. To bury the dead.
+ 7 Corporal Works
The seven chief spiritual works of mercy:
1. To admonish the sinner.
2. To instruct the ignorant.
3. To counsel the doubtful.
4. To comfort the sorrowful.
5. To bear wrongs patiently.
6. To forgive all injuries.
7. To pray for the living and the dead.
+ 7 Spiritual Works
Pro-Life - From Conception Until Natural Death
+10 Pro-Life
7
Therein lies your mistake. That's the way "authority" works.
Furthermore, comparing a helpful, authoritative, clarifying addition to one whose only purpose is to promote a heretical doctrine no one ever heard of for 1500 years is hardly apt.
When will Protestants get it through their heads Catholics pointing out Protestants don't practice their own principles does not obligate Catholics to practice Protestant principles?
Therein lies your mistake. That's the way "authority" works.
And herein continues Rome's error. Rome is not able to add to Scripture what is not in Scripture.
Furthermore, comparing a helpful, authoritative, clarifying addition to one whose only purpose is to promote a heretical doctrine no one ever heard of for 1500 years is hardly apt.
Except people have heard of by faith alone previously as demonstrated. For some reason Roman Catholics seem to gloss over the evidence presented.
The so called "helpful, authoritative, clarifying addition" is none of what is claimed. It adds to the text something not in the manuscripts.
That clearly goes against admonitions in Scripture to not add to the text.
And as noted, the NABRE is the only translation to do so.
And as noted, the translation noted by the Msgr is incorrect and the words interjected by the NABRE simply are not in the Greek manuscripts and goes beyond what the passage is dealing with.
This is not the first time Rome has taken great liberties with the texts and is not the first time Rome has committed great error in doing so.
But you don't present it here? What Christian community preached Sola Fide prior to the 16th century?
Furthermore, gainsaying is not refutation. Your choice to concatenate concepts, however inappropriate, to allege offenses leaves no one else obligated to respect the resultant assertions. Catholics are under no obligation to be Protestant.
Read the thread. I posted plenty to show otherwise.
Hardly, your Scriptural obligation is to show those who ask, not send them on a quest, and I'm asking.
See my post 71 presuming we’re still talking about faith alone.
Thank you.
Now what was that about “context?” Seems to me your references are comprised of comparisons of “faith” vs. “the law.”
Are any of them stand-alone treatments of faith?
(Although it can be said that God’s commandments pertain to faith alone, if it is not dead [faith], but rather understood as that live faith, which works through love”)
I most heartily agree!
Well, then ... bless your heart!
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