"Danger."
Maybe those of us who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture should be "red flagged"?
After all, "dangerous" doctrine espoused by "dangerous" people should be severely dealt with.
Revelation 3:10
Posted on 08/12/2019 12:26:36 AM PDT by Cronos
No place is this more clear than with the doctrine of the Pretribulation Rapture which is a core teaching of most mainstream denominations in the West today. The rapture doctrine is very popular because, well . . . it sells very well to Western culture. To exaggerate just a little bit, it goes like this . . . God loves you, He is pleased with everything you do, and in fact He is so concerned with your circumstances and comfort He is going to beam you out of here before any of the bad stuff happens. I can not tell you how many times I have had believers tell me that they do not need to understand Revelation, because we will all be “gone” when those things happen.
It is certainly forgivable that one could be confused on details of Eschatology, or the study of End Times. Indeed, it is a complex topic, and one in which it is very easy to be in error. The issue is that the pretribulation rapture doctrine is not just an error in Eschatology, it is an error in understanding the attributes of God. Read the Bible . . . we are told that as believers we will be hated, we will be persecuted, we will suffer, and yes, we will be killed for The Name of Christ. This truth can be found on almost every page of the Bible, and to ignore it is to risk not being ready for a great persecution that is coming.
So, how can I so boldly state that the pretribulation rapture theory is in error? Well to make the case will be much beyond the scope of this one post, but lets look at one simple argument. I will present more scripture defense of my position in future articles. For today, lets look at what most people consider the “foundational” rapture verse in the Bible, 1 Cor 15:51-58
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
To analyze this verse, lets start with the most important and obvious point. The passage tells us WHEN the “rapture” is going to happen. Verse 52 tells us that it is going to happen at the Last Trumpet. If we look in Revelation, we can see that there are seven last days trumpets, and the Last Trumpet, the seventh, is described in Revelation 11:15
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”
This occurs at the END of the tribulation and clearly is Christ’s second coming. Remember the Lord’s prayer where we pray, “Our Father which art in Heaven, hallowed be Your Name. Your Kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven”. This seventh trumpet represents the answer to this prayer believers have prayed throughout the ages. Christ has returned to reign over the earth. His Kingdom has come! So, one must ask, how many trumpets are there after the Last Trumpet? If the Last Trumpet of 1 Cor 15:52 is before the tribulation, how can there be 7 more trumpets during the tribulation? In this case, it would NOT be the last trumpet. No, the Last Trumpet is exactly what it says, it is the Last Trumpet. There will be no more trumpets after the last one. Those who argue for a pre tribulation rapture will say that 1 Cor 15 is talking about a different set of trumpets. When you ask them for a scripture to defend this contention, they will typically hand you a fascinating rapture video by Tim LaHaye, but they will be completely unable to provide a textual basis for their contention that the last trumpet is in fact not the last trumpet.
Next up, we have a second indication of timing. We are told in 1 Cor 15:51 that Paul is describing to us a “Mystery”. Hmm . . . I wonder if the Bible gives us any more end times verses on this “Mystery” of God. We have to look no further than Revelation 10:5-7:
5 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, 7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
We are shown here that the Mystery of God alluded to by Paul in 1 Cor 15:51 would be completed with the sounding of the seventh trumpet. We have already shown that the seventh trumpet happens at the end of the tribulation and is associated with the blessed second coming of Christ.
Finally, we look at the other blessed promise that occurs at the time of this resurrection of the dead and the “rapture” of the church. We are told that in 1 Cor 15:54-56 that this is the time that Christ will win victory over death. In fact, “Death is swallowed up in Victory”. Everyone will agree that Revelation clearly teaches that millions of believers will be martyred in the Tribulation. If the events of 1 Cor 15 occur before the tribulation, and this is the time that Christ wins final victory over death, how can it be millions of Christians die AFTER Christ wins final victory over death?
If we place the events of 1 Cor 15 where the verse tells us to put them, at the last trumpet, which is at the end of the tribulation and is Christ’s second coming, ALL the textual problems go away, and the story fits like a glove.
So, why do we do so much damage to scripture to place the “rapture” before the tribulation. Well, it is like I said before, it sells well. In fact so well that literally Billions of dollars have been made selling believers books and videos teaching that they will not have to endure hardship. As westerners we are so precious in God’s eyes that He would never allow us to suffer tribulation, persecution or martyrdom. To this, I must ask, what about the almost 10,000 Christians that have been slaughtered this year in Africa alone? In Nigeria Christian communities are being wiped out in mass for their faith. In Kenya, schools, shopping centers, buses and more are routinely attacked. In many of these attacks, Christians could save their lives if they would denounce Christ, but they choose death over denouncing their faith. Where is their rapture? Is it only Westerners that God so favors as to spare them persecution?
Again, the danger of the pretribulation rapture doctrine is not that it is off on eschatology, but that it is off on understanding the attributes of God and the promises of the Bible. God never promised that we would not face persecution, and he never promised that we would not face tribulation. The promise of the Bible is that He would be with us and give us strength WHEN those things happen. To believe in a pre tribulation rapture is to not be ready for the things that will come upon the Church in those last seven years known as the Great Tribulation.
So to believe in a pre tribulation rapture, we must believe that:
Since we are 23 months into Revelation Chapter 12, the pretribulation rapture doctrine is pretty much over come by events.
You have to show an example where God’s wrath was poured out on his elect. From Noah, to Lot, to Moses God always spared his elect from his wrath.
One could argue that Noah, Lot and Moses were in tribulation and perilous times to serve as a witness to God. Like Daniel, David, Paul, etc.
Job?
Rev 12 - or rather Rev 11 ends with John seeing the ark of the covenant. This is a clear indication of a created being bearing God - this is both a vision of Mary, the ark bearing God - Jesus Christ and also ZION birthing christianity.
12:1 "And a great sign appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery."This links to Is 7:14 "There the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" This also links to Is 26:17 and Is 66.7
John is referring both to Zion, the daughter of God and Mary who personifies Isaiah's Daughter Zion. God's Chosen people, Israel, gives birth to the Messiah of the world. Salvation comes from the Jews.
The woman wears a crown, like the 24 elders referred to earlier - indicating that they and she have been faithful and received "the crown of life" as alluded in Revelations 2:10
12:3 "And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. his tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth;"The 10 horns is a symbol of political power and the 7 crowns is about complete (7 signifies complete) power held by the chief fallen angel.
Remember that Red signifies Ruddy Edom. Herod was an Edomite (Edom = "red") who sought to destroy the infant Christ
Rev 12:5-6 She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, and the woman fled into the wilderness where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days1260 days = 42 months = 3.5 years = the duration of the Jewish-Roman war
Rev 12:7-9 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against hte dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world - he was thrown down to the earth , and his angels were thrown down with him.Wis 2:24 But by the envy[a] of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are allied with him experience it.
rev12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuse them day and night before our God."Just as in rev 11:2, the destruction of the temple is spoken of in the same terms as being "cast out"
Rev 12:11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto deathThis is key - the Devil had 42 months, 3.5 years during the destruction of the 2nd temple to run amok
REjoise then, o heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short
Noah, Lot, Moses all faced tribulations as did Job and indeed the Christian Church under Nero.
A poor initial representation of the thoughts of those people who hold that position made me stop right there. If your position relies in the smallest way in setting up a strawman then why bother?
They faced the tribulations of man, not those from God. The Great Tribulation is God judgement on the world. It does not make sense that the judgements proclaimed by God and sent by God would be poured out on his Church.
Revelation 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakes of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
"Danger."
Maybe those of us who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture should be "red flagged"?
After all, "dangerous" doctrine espoused by "dangerous" people should be severely dealt with.
Revelation 3:10
you are correct. God’s wrath is never poured out on His elect. HOWEVER, it is clear from Scripture and a casual perusal of history that He PRESERVES HIS ELECT THROUGH HORRIBLE SUFFERING, and that intense persecution is not a sign of His wrath. Nor is suffering.
You have a dandified view of the providence of God.
Likewise, the trumpet for all the Old Testament regenerated saints and the New Testament saints to meet the Lord in the clouds and receive their new spiritual bodies (I Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:16-17) is not "the last trumpet of all forever" (as this article presumptuously claims); no, it is the last trumpet of the Mighty God which announces the end of all His Covenants in which He patiently set up provisional standards to tolerate their sinfulness and to provide a way to approach Him in peace.
In fact, it is the trumpet calling the end of the New Covenant, the Church Age, at which His patience with rebellious mankind will have been exhausted, and the outpouring of His righteous rage on the earthly realm will commence.
That rage is not directed toward those who throughout history have trusted wholly on Jehovah Jesus Messiah and have become His enlisted soldiers resisting the Devil, combatting Sin, and contending for The Faith.
Upon the sound of this last signal of His Age of Patience, His loyal soldiers will be completely withdrawn from the scene of hostilities, so that His Wrath and the consequent wreckage will ensue, in which His Promise is that :Thy Holy One(s) (The Spiritual Church--The Bride--and its members) will not seeexperience corruption" in their new bodies (Psalm 16:19, 49:9; Acts 2:27, 2:31, 13:35). The tribulation wreaked by God on isolated Sin in the world and pervading rebellios disobedient oppositional defiant humanity will be so great that it has never happened before and never will be again. It is not your ordinary trifling tribulations as experienced by all in their earthly walk. His Select will necessarily be spared from this unusual outpouring.
There will be, of course, a further progression of trumpets announcing the various cumulative stages of the ongoing hostilities in the global scenario.
There is no need to go on about this. The essential basis of the unbiblical interpretation embodied in the above article is thus blown away like chaff. It is much ado about nothing.
17:13-14 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, adn whence have they come?" I said to him "Sir, you know." And he said to me "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."The washing of the robes means those who have been delivered
The Great Tribulation talks of how NERO persecuted God's people - this sustained and vicious tribulation of the Church started when Nero, the little horn, needed a scapegoat for the great fire of Rome. This state-sponsored persecution continued for about three years, until Nero diverted attention tot he Jewish-Roman war
Jesus clearly told the Sanhedrin that they would see evidence of the coming of the Son of man as predicted in Daniel 7:13 - for you to say this will happen after 2019 is FALSE. Jesus on the eve of His crucifixion made a promise to the Sanhedrin that THEY would see evidence of the coming of the Son of Man - he wasn't wrong by 2000 years!!!
Daniel clearly talks of the destruction of the Temple as the time of the Great Tribulation.Hebrews 9:24-25 christ has entered into Heaven itself, not to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer Himself repeatedly, as the High priest enters the Holy place yearly with blood not his own; for then He would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, He has appeared once and for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself
Daniel states that the purpose of the time is to bestow 6 blessings. These blessings were bestowed as a result of the first Advent The seventy weeks are decreed 'to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy."
The day when Christ was born, eternal righteousness was revealed, and the Saint of saints was anointed, namely Christ, and the vision and prophecy were sealed and those sins were remitted... It was because the prophecy was fulfilled by His advent that the vision was confirmed by a seal; and it was called a prophecy becuase Christ himself is the seal of all the prophets
Daniel’s seventy “weeks’ ended in 70 AD with the destruction of the 2nd Temple, the end of 2nd Temple Judaism (and the splitting of the two remaining sects of 2nd temple Judaism - christianity and modern judaism)
it is not the end of the "church age"
the seventh trumpe
Rev 11:15-19 Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there wre loud voice in heaven, saying "the kingdom of the world have become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ and He shall reign for ever and ever.The earthquake, lightning is when Christ expired on the cross
16. And the 24 elders who sit on their thrones before God fell on their faces and worshipped God, saying "We give thanks to thee, Lord God Almighty, who are and who was, that thous hast taken thye great power and begun to reign.
18. The nations raged, but thy wrath came, and the tiem for the dead to be judged, for rewarding thy sevants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear they name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth"
Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple; and there were flashes of lightning, voices, peals of thunder, an earthquake and heavy hail
Matthew says And the earth shook and the rocks were split; the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many" Matthew 27:54
It is done
The Church Age then dawned and we are living IN the Kingdom of Heaven
And I defy you to find God's wrath anywhere in the book of Job. All of the torments Job went through were initiated by Satan. God gave His permission, but it was Satan doing the tormenting.
Ping for later this is great
Wow--there sure us a LOT of sin in the Kingdom of Heaven, then.
We have two very different views of Heaven.
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